DRDO says its Kaveri engine can power combat drones 80 kN of thrust now.

[AgnosticIndianNationalist]

LCA MK2 will be powered by GEF414 Engines we've already procured 99 of them and will probably procure more since IAF is looking for ~180 MK2 LCA to replace the MiG-21's the Kaveri engine would only be fitted on the LCA MK2 when LCA needs new engines

as for AMCA idk if the K10 will power the AMCA or if a brand new engine will but if Kaveri is not there to power prototypes we procure engines, this time we will not wait around for GTRE to conduct more R&D either its there or its not

 

[AgnosticIndianNationalist]

btw we should seriously consider merging the engine division of HAL with GTRE and merging those 2 with BHEL they could share technology and it would make the process of developing aero gas turbines better, adding on there should be a lot of mergers from DRDO to the private sector kinda like Russia did with the OKB and the companies

 

[WHITESMOKE]

So they reached 80Kn but for remaining 15Kn they have almost given up ( the reason they are going for JV ) Why cant DRDO push it up till end?

 

[AgnosticIndianNationalist]

GTRE should have gone for foreign consultancy on the project either French or British (Snecma or Rolls Royce) so they wouldn't have had to been working in the dark

 

[Abingdonboy]

I know that there is a lot of complaints about GTRE/DRDO on the Kaveri project but TBH building a jet engine from the ground up is no mean feat, one capable by only a handful of countries in the world. Look at China they have been reverse engineering jet engines for decades but when it came to trying to modify one or develop on the engines further they have struggled and are not much further ahead than India who has done it on her own. This approach will pay dividends in the future for India as they will have a very solid base to move onto an even brighter future.

Now if a JV is required to go the last extra distance then why not? Why cut off your nose to spite your face? Pride comes before a fall. India would still play an active role in the process and would learn from world-class experts in this field.

 

[AgnosticIndianNationalist]

would Pratt and Whitney, GE, RR, Snecma, etc sell technology to BHEL or GTRE? like we pay them for gas turbine technology?

 

[WHITESMOKE]

I know that there is a lot of complaints about GTRE/DRDO on the Kaveri project but TBH building a jet engine from the ground up is no mean feat, one capable by only a handful of countries in the world. Look at China they have been reverse engineering jet engines for decades but when it came to trying to modify one or develop on the engines further they have struggled and are not much further ahead than India who has done it on her own. This approach will pay dividends in the future for India as they will have a very solid base to move onto an even brighter future.

Now if a JV is required to go the last extra distance then why not? Why cut off your nose to spite your face? Pride comes before a fall. India would still play an active role in the process and would learn from world-class experts in this field.

Its ok they started from scratch, but this argument can not be used for ever. At some point DRDO have to stand up alone. JV is good but no country will give their key technology in any JV. May be some improvements in already discovered techs. American sanctions delayed kaveri and so on.. its ok but more than 10 yeas have been passed since that incident. Now DRDO should move on instead of beating same drums again and again. If India wants to be honorable in science and tech at world level, she should understand that self reliance is must.

 

[Kinetic]

So they reached 80Kn but for remaining 15Kn they have almost given up ( the reason they are going for JV ) Why cant DRDO push it up till end?

Actually Kaveri was never designed to have such high thrusts but now IAF changed its requirement. But with 80 kN Kaveri is an advanced FADEC engine which have many uses.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Actually Kaveri was never designed to have such high thrusts but now IAF changed its requirement. But with 80 kN Kaveri is an advanced FADEC engine which have many uses.

Yes it was not designed to be .. but as its our own puppy, we have all the know how about kaveri. It wont take decades to alter the specifications of kaveri for 90-100KN engine. I wonder how long DRDO can hang on same excuse of starting from scratch. We invented Pentium chip.. a breakthrough when everyone was wondering that is it end of processor limit.. but for this engine, sadly our people have almost given up..

Note: For chip part, by we i mean an Indian.

 

[sancho]

The F414-GE-INS6- the most powerful version of the F-414 and can produce 100+ kn of thrust with AB. So they are going to fit a less powerful engine just because it has a "MADE IN INDIA" sticker on it? Is this a professional decision and one that the IAF want or is this a overly political/PR decision? Or are there weight savings on the Kaveri that improves the overall thrust:weight ratio?

There is no reliable source that the engine offers 100+ kN, the GE 414G in the Gripen NG even offers only 96kN, which is 2kN less than the same engine offers in the F18SH.
Also keep in mind that thrust is only one part, the weight of the engine is important as well, if the K10 is lighter than the GE engine, even 90kN could offer the same TWR, so it won't be a disadvantage. Not to forget that an indigenous engine is better in sanction times, for upgrades and exports as well.

Actually Kaveri was never designed to have such high thrusts but now IAF changed its requirement. But with 80 kN Kaveri is an advanced FADEC engine which have many uses.

It was designed with an initial thrust of around 81kN, but obviously with upgrade potential as well, the delays and problems in the development and the problems of the LCA development itself now requires more thrust. So it's not only IAF that is an issue here, but the several problems in the development.

 

[Kinetic]

Yes it was not designed to be .. but as its our own puppy, we have all the know how about kaveri. It wont take decades to alter the specifications of kaveri for 90-100KN engine. I wonder how long DRDO can hang on same excuse of starting from scratch. We invented Pentium chip.. a breakthrough when everyone was wondering that is it end of processor limit.. but for this engine, sadly our people have almost given up..

Note: For chip part, by we i mean an Indian.

The Kaveri core (Kabini) is small it's thrust with upgrades can be maximum 85kN not 100 kN. For that we need a new development.

 

[sancho]

Its ok they started from scratch, but this argument can not be used for ever. At some point DRDO have to stand up alone. JV is good but no country will give their key technology in any JV. May be some improvements in already discovered techs. American sanctions delayed kaveri and so on.. its ok but more than 10 yeas have been passed since that incident. Now DRDO should move on instead of beating same drums again and again. If India wants to be honorable in science and tech at world level, she should understand that self reliance is must.

JV would have been the right way from the start, but today they are just needed to counter our failures! It was a mistake to let GTRE develop the engine and not HAL, which already had experience with the licence production of foreign engines. Just like it was a mistake to do it alone without foreign help in form of a co-development partner, that supplies stop gap engines. We made ourself too dependent on the indigenous development and LCA completely dependent on the success of Kaveri engine and both turned out to be wrong decisions!
We have to get rid of the idea that we can be self reliant only, if we develop everything alone, because we have the big advantage that Russia, S. Korea, Japan and most western countries are friendly to us and are open for co-developments and JV. Especially in times when they struggle with fundings, we have way more of such options and should make full use of them, instead of thinking about the pride and honor of indigenous developments. The simple fact is, we are decades behind most nations and we would catch up faster if we let them join in our developments, with their know how and experience.

 

[jdme]

"DRDO says"...I stopped reading after that. If everything DRDO said was true, we would be the sole military superpower in the world. Shut down DRDO! Indian PSUs should not go beyond maintenance/manufacturing.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

So they reached 80Kn but for remaining 15Kn they have almost given up ( the reason they are going for JV ) Why cant DRDO push it up till end?

The Kaveri is a leaky engine and the specs point out that it is no way going to cross the 90Kn mark. It is more like the GE 404 engine.

 

[Kinetic]

"DRDO says"...I stopped reading after that. If everything DRDO said was true, we would be the sole military superpower in the world. Shut down DRDO! Indian PSUs should not go beyond maintenance/manufacturing.

DRDO cannot supply Kaveri engine on time, so...... shut down it. Even US can cancel so many projects after spending billions but India's can't delay few critical systems!!!!


Yes shut down DRDO and US will supply us Arihant, Agni, Prithvi, Shaurya, Prahaar, Akash, Arjun, torpedoes, electronic warfare, ships, UAVs, Brahmos, LRSAM and all others thing. Isn't it?