Doubtful video showing Army 'abusing' in Swat

[fatman17]

Two similar incidents:

1.A fanatic whipping a girl back in march.
2. A group of army men kicking bared old people

is their any difference between the two events, or we are again "picking" the odd one out, think about it.

what is this or you mean bearded old men!

 

[fatman17]

And today Abu Ghraib, Gitmo and Bagram are nothing but the very devices that put Americans at par with the oppressive government of Taliban in Afghanistan. They have become the monster that they set out to defeat. They have lost a good degree of their progression by resorting to medieval means of torture.

We all knew this was going on in Pakistan, but to see it, its really saddening that this is how things get done in Pakistan. Use of torture should be authorized at a very high level so that there would be accountability of that person's actions. Right now simple constables have the right to beat people. It's no wonder the police has no respect in Pakistan. Who will respect this?

I remember an incident in Lahore where I was going to the airport (the old one) with my driver. The cops stopped us on the way... Grown up in Dubai I know when a cop says stop, you stop. My driver didn't, he slowed it down but kept driving through them... I'm like hey what you doing? He's like shushing me "Oh tussi rehndiyo". Anyway I was a kid, I let him handle it. Finally one of the cop comes right infront of the car and he had to stop. He came furiously towards the window and is like "Oye anna ay?" As soon as he said that and stuck his face infront of my driver, he slapped the cop hard and is like "dafa ho, @#$#$%" And drove off.

This is officially the right way to deal with cops in Pakistan. The way that keeps you with the upper hand. I asked my driver wth did you do that for? He's like oh he would've harassed us for money and when you treat them like this they don't have the balls to even follow you and he was right.

Maar dhaar is common place for the police now. They get beaten up quite often too in the process. You remember the video of the lawyers beating up the cop? And who can forget the cops that were beaten up when they tried to stop Nawaz Sharif and gang from entering the long march?

In Pakistan mobile phones are robbed out of your hands at gun point in front of cops. Once it happened to a friend of mine who went after the cop standing by and he's like "Kinnayaan nu pharaanga? Jaan diyo, jaan bachi"

Whenever the authority would resort to a little lawlessness, the public would amplify that same lawlessness in some way or the other. Today they've seen the epitome of dignity within Pakistan's institutions fall from grace, tomorrow some wadera would think hey if they can do it and get away with it, why can't I?

Nip it in the bud. Fix the problem now before it gets out of hand. I remember in the 90s it was generally believed that suicide bombers were real heroes, their helpless situation was played up and the collateral damage they caused was played down. Today we're fighting the same menace we once glorified. Nip it in the bud, before it gets out of hand.

sirjee - dont equate this to police brutality - that IMO is also "exaggerated" - it does happen and the level of respect or non-respect the police get is due to corruption in the ranks - this particular case is a "war episode" where emotions are high because of what the militants have been doing before the army action is swat/malakand - i've seen pics of FC men "de-capitated" - it will boil your blood with hate for these a**holes!
army will curtail this in accordance with its own rules and regulations and the guilty should not be spared.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i dont think we should waste time over such incidents. Army wouldnt beat people period --ours is a large and professional one. u

Even if a few officers regardless of rank did --- at the most they should get a disciplinary letter of caution. The enemy is out there. This is a war.

We shouldnt start humanizing terrorists.

 

[fatman17]

i dont think we should waste time over such incidents. Army wouldnt beat people period --ours is a large and professional one. u

Even if a few officers regardless of rank did --- at the most they should get a disciplinary letter of caution. The enemy is out there. This is a war.

We shouldnt start humanizing terrorists.

yes indeed !!!

 

[Y2A]

Let's not play fast.

FYkindI, at the time when the news broke out the video was very much doubtful as the authenticity of the video was not certained.

BTW, this very fact was mentioned in every website that had mentioned this news. Please take some time and read the original news, not only from BBC but from all the sources. It is always better to pay attention to words before commenting on them!

It seems it wasn't me who had doubts in his mind in initiation of this thread, I am quite sure on the matter I am commenting, it has been discussed every where in national media, and "doubts" about the authenticity of clip are only hobbling in the minds of the people who view from certain pre-defined view points, any ways thanks for drawing my attention towards this point.​

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

to compare this to swat flogging is wrong on so many levels. Army is in uniform out in open looking for a fight. Enemy rapes and kills from kilometer away. They attack civilians and weak people. Army trying to protect these people. Like i said, this is war. Media will always capitalize on baseless stories. The biggest prisoner aka enemy combatant abuse we know who is guilty of this. It aint Pakistan!

 

[Y2A]

You have a problem of understanding here.

most People are free to presume, so are me and you.

Army people do not follow beliefs, they take orders. They take orders as you take orders from who ever. The only difference being in the way they are executed. The orders they they follow are not given by any tom, dick or harry, but by the people who have fought their way
up the ladder. And today these people are very much in consonance with the civilian govt.
If we go by your understanding then one must say that all those who made the decision of fighting this terrorism menace (which included a democratically elected govt, lots of thought process, a chance given to the bad guys to mend their ways, many peace deals etc etc) was just plain wrong!!

As for your claim which says: "that they are right and they had the right to suppress and interrogate and every bared men in the area is bound to be taliban or pro-taliban" i would say that yes they have every right to interrogate just anybody in a war zone. May you need to learn the way interrogations, investigations, suspect segregation etc etc works, both when being done by the Police department or the military. People would and must be interrogated, but they way which is used for interrogation would vary. If i suspect you, Sir i would very much ask you a few questions, but that wouldnt mean that i have to beat you, so no one is saying that what the 'uniformed' persons did was right, but then you should be clear that you or i cant tell the military or specify them about whom should they interrogate and whom not.

And had it been every bared men in the area then i think millions fled the area and then came back, so keeping in mind these sheer numbers atleast millions should have been detained by now and had been interrogated, but guess what it didnt happen. The military or any other interrogating entity doesnt have that much of time to waste, that they should start picking every person in the area and start asking questions from just anybody. There is something known as priority of work and/or target/suspect analysis, learn it!



Well guess what, had you seen the vid carefully and tried to understand the convo taking place you should have known that the interrogating officer knew that (atleast a few of the 'bared' men) were culprits, he did say at a number of times to the 'bared' men that he had the information about what they have done and also told them about their (terroristic) acts, meaning thereby that intelligence was available and these 'bared' men were picked after due deliberation and they were being interrogated, one, for confession, and two, for extracting MORE information as regards to their 'friends' and the 'ticking bomb' (that had been discussed on this thread earlier!)

Sir, I am not going by those definitions of terms and analogies which were redefined by 9/11, i have same understanding of every object prior to the event, so their will be "elaboration gap" among mutual terms we use each time to describe our receptive stand.

Thanks for explaining the military protocols for me but the fact i was trying to point by using word "believe" is some thing termed like "moral" in military when a solider thinks he is ethically on the high ground to do what he is being "ordered" to do, to give his conscious a justification of his actions, ,other wise both guys are trained killers, what make us give priority over other is this specific reason, whose kill is more suitable for us, i was merely highlighting that aspect on the ground, low moral is 1st step towards defeat but moral of the trops in the video is quite on a high level, which is making PA personal to believe that they are doing right, you can further explain the interrogation techniques to me that us really adding in to my knowledge but kindly do not mix army with police.

Their is evident good will and faith in your thoughts for army and its actions, and i think you can not leave this aside when you will arguing on the matter, it will ultimately create passive bias factor in your point, you can even extract positives from negatives, which i think you are, me and you can continue to discuss all the pros and cons of the event we want, but damage which has been caused by the SUSPECTED INTERROGATION in the "war zone",
(why would it be war zone inside a country against the countrymen at 1st place, same people were US declared freedom fighters in eighties are now become terrorist because US has change their title, totally absurd)
can't be repaired, if their was a single innocent among those whom you consider as convicts just because an "interrogator" in a "doubtful" video looked "convinced" when he was torturing the people, that innocent guy is going to have an anti military sentiment in his thoughts, he will next time rather avoid thinking in pro military manner after leaving the scene with the spirit of vengeance, which is the key element in the TTP recruitment.

we have killed a Baitullah their will be some one else then their will be some one else, may be instead of solving the root cause of the issue that lies behind the Durand line in shape of occupation of Afghanistan we should only think about that all the terrorists need to be killed at once by probably nuking the whole tribal belt, that will solve "terrorists menace" problem for the whole world, it is interesting this menace was really hard to find before the 2004 and before misadventure of Mushurruf in waziristan on US pressure when he was pursuing the world peace, this was the start of Army vs People face off in the area.

before thinking about declaring me as the karachi's counter part of fanatic TTP kindly note that i am only expressing my regret over the event as it is bringing further disgrace and defame to the army in the area, causing much eruption and hate towards military operation, i frequently had chance to talk with the local pushtoons of karachi, their closed relatives live in the area and they are narrating further horrible scenes, which i would rather avoid to discuss as i have no DOUBTFULL VIDEO to support their claims, but even 10% of that being truth is enough to make me feel ashamed depressed for what PA is doing over their.

Well i think you should wait to reach the Presidentship before you make such suggestions.

well..! you never know.

​

 

[Y2A]

what is this or you mean bearded old men!

I mean beard old men.

 

[Mujahid]

The man getting the superficial beating was a throat slitting terrorist preparing young minds for suicide bombings. Army would be demoralizing its troops if it talks about any inquiry It was NOT abuse by any standards. They were not even subjected to first degree! This is more than OK in a war zone where a battle is being fought and men are dying. ISPR should stop being apologetic here. if anyone has any doubt about brutality of TTP terrorists being questioned, just watch some video clips of beheadings and throat slittings by these TTP animals.

“The Pakistan Army has ordered an inquiry into a video clip posted online that apparently shows members of the security forces beating up suspected militants, the army spokesman said on Saturday. The 10-minute clip, widely circulated on the Internet, shows men in army uniforms questioning at least four suspects in turn, before pushing them to the ground and kicking and whipping the detainees. “We have ordered a detailed investigation into this incident,” Inter-Services Public Relations Director General Major-General Athar Abbas said. “The inquiry is underway and the culprits will face stern action if [the abuse is] proven.”

Source: BrassTacks newsletter

 

[ghamai]

I think the reason y pakistani army delibirately leaked this video is to show pakistanis they 're very serious abt taliban 'nd they 're taking strict actions against them. its good they 're punishing taliban but whats all this drama for? if army is serious then they dont need to make any false video in order to please us, we confide in them anyway....

 

[Shehzad_Ahmed]

If taliban are behaving like monsters then why is pakistan army behaving like taliban??

 

[xero]

another propaganda video by bbc which is being used in the hand of USA

 

[waraich66]

If taliban are behaving like monsters then why is pakistan army behaving like taliban??

Talaban should be dealt with chopping heads and flogging in front of public as they used against army to get the real taste and punishment.

 

[Roybot]

Probably Iraqis - The uniform these soldiers are wearing is similar to Iraq's new Army uniform.

Isn't that FC's new uniform? What language are they speaking? Sounds like Pashto.

 

[no_koadsheding_plz]

but they are speaking pashtu?