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Double Standards of France - Hara-Kiri Hebdo vs Charlie Hebdo

So was Satanic Verses and so was The Da Vinci Code, the movie, but we are not discussing India or Hindus here are we? Derail your own thread, genius o_O
Derail the thread? I thought you were fierce proponent of freedom of speech... No? Now that I have revealed the level of freedom of speech in shining India you began to pussyfoot? Wasn't that you who wrote "....people and societies would rather be stuck in the stone age...".
 
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Derail the thread? I thought you were fierce proponent of freedom of speech... No? Now that I have revealed the level of freedom of speech in shining India you began to pussyfoot? Wasn't that you who wrote "....people and societies would rather be stuck in the stone age...".

Yes I am, but as the topic says "Double standards of France", I don't see how India fits into the picture here. Just cause the opposing view came from an Indian and interrupted your sob story, you had to drag India into this? Thats called derailing.

Open a thread about freedom of speech in India and I ll give you my arguments, I don't have to pussyfoot around anything, not in real life and definitely not on the internet!
 
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Hara-Kiri Hebdo was a weekly satirical magazine began to publish in 1969. It is a lesser known fact that Hara-Kiri Hebdo was the forbearer of Charlie Hebdo, which started to publish following a permanent and life-long ban on Hara-Kiri Hebdo in 1970.

In November 1970, following the death of the President of France Charles de Gaulle in Colombey-les-Deux-Églises, the weekly Hara-Kiri Hebdo published the headline "Bal tragique à Colombey : 1 mort" (in English: "Tragic ball in Colombey: 1 death").

The choice of the heading denotes to a tragedy of the same month, a fire at a discothèque that had claimed 146 lives. The chosen heading was conceived as derogatory, a cheap attempt of downplaying the gravity of Charles de Gaulle's tragic death, by suggesting a comparison with a tragedy which had just earlier claimed many lives. The people and government of France took this editorial choice as a deliberate felony of lèse-majesté against the deceased President. As a result, the Hara-Kiri Hebdo was immediately and permanently banned. Charlie Hebdo was started immediately afterwards.

My question is, where was the freedom of press and free speech when Hara-Kiri Hebdo was permanently banned?

@Areesh @Akheilos @Bratva @Donatello @forcetrip @Gufi @HRK @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @MastanKhan @niaz @Rafael @RescueRanger @Secur @Slav Defence @TankMan @WebMaster


The following is amendment to the French Freedom of Press laws.

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LAW No 90-615 to repress acts of racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia (1990)

MODIFICATIONS OF THE LAW OF JULY 29, 1881 ON THE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS Art 8. - Article 24 of theLaw on the Freedom of the Press of 29 July 1881is supplemented by the following provisions: In the event of judgment for one of the facts envisaged by the preceding subparagraph, the court will be able moreover to order: Except when the responsibility for the author of the infringement is retained on the base for article 42 and the first subparagraph for article 43 for this law or the first three subparagraphs for article 93-3 for the law No 82-652 for July 29, 1982 on the audio-visual communication, the deprivation of the rights enumerated to the 2o and 3o of article 42 of the penal code for imprisonment of five years maximum;

Art 9. –As an amendment to Article 24of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 24 (a) is as follows written: <<Art. 24 (a). -those who have disputed the existence of one or more crimes against humanitysuch as they are defined by Article 6 of the statute of the international tribunal military annexed in the agreement of London of August 8, 1945 and which were a carried out either by the members of an organization declared criminal pursuant to Article 9 of the aforementioned statute, or by a person found guilty such crimes by a French or international jurisdictionshall be punished by one month to one year's imprisonment or a fine.

Art 13. - It is inserted, after article 48-1 of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 48-2 thus written: <<Art. 48-2. - publication or publicly expressed opinion encouraging those to whom it is addressed to pass a favourable moral judgment on one or more crimes against humanity and tending to justify these crimes (including collaboration) or vindicate their perpetrators shall be punished by one to five years' imprisonment or a fine.


Unquote

The above was voted for and passed on July 13, 1990.

You can call it a bad law and challenge its validity in court; nevertheless it is a Law as passed by the French legislature, just as the Blasphemy laws & Hudood ordinance of Pakistan. If you live in France you have to abide by their laws. Making a new law is a lengthy process and one cannot force French Gov’t that they must make another law forbidding cartoons of religious personalities because a law against the denial of Holocaust was passed 20 years ago.

Everyone must remember that Charlie Hebdot never singled out Islam; the magazine makes fun of Christianity as well as other religions. Even if Charlie Hebdot was based in Pakistan, one would expect them to be arrested, tried under the Blasphemy Law and punished whatever the Court decided. Trouble is that our society is accustomed to being judge, jury & executioner without going thru due legal process, hence cold blooded killers such Mumtaz Qadri are considered hero’s.

Another fact is that many in France don’t care a lot for religion and thus give very little consideration to the religious sensitivities of others either. On the other hand human life is held in very high regard. In Pakistan human life has no value whatsoever, even if you are caught, rich can get away by paying blood money which would be considered most inhuman in other countries.

However this does not mean that Charlie Hebdot can insult our holy Prophet (PBUH) with impunity. Pope has correctly declared that if you swear at my mother, you should expect a box in retaliation. The question here is retaliation in what form and manner?

I support the current peaceful protests. I would even support calling back Pakistani Ambassador from France. But to go on a shooting spree because someone hurt your religious feelings? Certainly NOT.

It is not the question of double standards. It is a question of attitude. I am against forcing my views on others with the barrel of a gun. If you live in a different country, you must respect their laws no matter how abhorrent. If you don’t like their laws, get the hell out.
 
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Freedom of expression is not that universal depends. For example, it is bad for rapist and murderer to have freedom of expression.

On the other hand mocking religion freedom is good. Charlie Hebdo not only mock Mohan, but also God of Christianity, God of Jewish, Buddha....etc. This is a good thing and it is align with European Rainaissance man of ridiculing the church. By ridiculing church, a society advances and move away from ignorant and darkness. (over ridiculing church will destroy morality, so there must be a balance)

The Islam should thank the fathers of European for screwing their church else you European Islam will be burn in stake.
 
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Yeah except that Hara Kiri Hebdo incident happened in 1969, and Charlie Hebdo in 2014, close to half a century after. People evolve, societies evolve, their tolerance evolves. But some people and societies would rather be stuck in the stone age.

So, you are saying is the definition of freedom of speech has evolved from 1969 to 2015. Like say anything against Jews is Antisemitism and hate, anything against Muslims is freedom of speech.:laughcry:
 
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So, you are saying is the definition of freedom of speech has evolved from 1969 to 2015.
Why is that unusual ?

Like say anything against Jews is Antisemitism and hate, anything against Muslims is freedom of speech.:laughcry:
Anti-semitism is racial. Being a Muslim is not being a member of a racial/ethnic group. I can convert to Christianity but cannot convert to being a black man, no matter how much I want.
 
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It is called selective freedom of expression----. Use the term to your advantage where it is suitable for your cause.
 
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Hara-Kiri Hebdo was a weekly satirical magazine began to publish in 1969. It is a lesser known fact that Hara-Kiri Hebdo was the forbearer of Charlie Hebdo, which started to publish following a permanent and life-long ban on Hara-Kiri Hebdo in 1970.

In November 1970, following the death of the President of France Charles de Gaulle in Colombey-les-Deux-Églises, the weekly Hara-Kiri Hebdo published the headline "Bal tragique à Colombey : 1 mort" (in English: "Tragic ball in Colombey: 1 death").

The choice of the heading denotes to a tragedy of the same month, a fire at a discothèque that had claimed 146 lives. The chosen heading was conceived as derogatory, a cheap attempt of downplaying the gravity of Charles de Gaulle's tragic death, by suggesting a comparison with a tragedy which had just earlier claimed many lives. The people and government of France took this editorial choice as a deliberate felony of lèse-majesté against the deceased President. As a result, the Hara-Kiri Hebdo was immediately and permanently banned. Charlie Hebdo was started immediately afterwards.

My question is, where was the freedom of press and free speech when Hara-Kiri Hebdo was permanently banned?

@Areesh @Akheilos @Bratva @Donatello @forcetrip @Gufi @HRK @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @MastanKhan @niaz @Rafael @RescueRanger @Secur @Slav Defence @TankMan @WebMaster



Did you notice they didn't kill them? That they just banned them and they were alive to start another magazine? That's kinda what we're trying to point out. If your feelings are hurt, you should have protested, quit supporting the their advertisers. But you killed them instead. There is no equivalency here.

@RescueRanger - Dude, you are way too liberal with your positive ratings. I'm pretty new here but even I know it's you when I see a positive rating on a one-liner.
 
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Hara-Kiri Hebdo was a weekly satirical magazine began to publish in 1969. It is a lesser known fact that Hara-Kiri Hebdo was the forbearer of Charlie Hebdo, which started to publish following a permanent and life-long ban on Hara-Kiri Hebdo in 1970.

In November 1970, following the death of the President of France Charles de Gaulle in Colombey-les-Deux-Églises, the weekly Hara-Kiri Hebdo published the headline "Bal tragique à Colombey : 1 mort" (in English: "Tragic ball in Colombey: 1 death").

The choice of the heading denotes to a tragedy of the same month, a fire at a discothèque that had claimed 146 lives. The chosen heading was conceived as derogatory, a cheap attempt of downplaying the gravity of Charles de Gaulle's tragic death, by suggesting a comparison with a tragedy which had just earlier claimed many lives. The people and government of France took this editorial choice as a deliberate felony of lèse-majesté against the deceased President. As a result, the Hara-Kiri Hebdo was immediately and permanently banned. Charlie Hebdo was started immediately afterwards.

My question is, where was the freedom of press and free speech when Hara-Kiri Hebdo was permanently banned?

@Areesh @Akheilos @Bratva @Donatello @forcetrip @Gufi @HRK @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @MastanKhan @niaz @Rafael @RescueRanger @Secur @Slav Defence @TankMan @WebMaster

The actual definition of Freedom of expression for west. We freely talk any bullshit(freedom) and you guys don't have have to express (minus freedom because it is already was used by west)
 
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It is called selective freedom of expression----. Use the term to your advantage where it is suitable for your cause.

Would that be similar to a country full of people hating on other religions while expecting the death penalty for people saying something against theirs? Or do you, in your infinite wisdom, classify that as the rule of law?
 
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Hara-Kiri Hebdo was a weekly satirical magazine began to publish in 1969. It is a lesser known fact that Hara-Kiri Hebdo was the forbearer of Charlie Hebdo, which started to publish following a permanent and life-long ban on Hara-Kiri Hebdo in 1970.

In November 1970, following the death of the President of France Charles de Gaulle in Colombey-les-Deux-Églises, the weekly Hara-Kiri Hebdo published the headline "Bal tragique à Colombey : 1 mort" (in English: "Tragic ball in Colombey: 1 death").

The choice of the heading denotes to a tragedy of the same month, a fire at a discothèque that had claimed 146 lives. The chosen heading was conceived as derogatory, a cheap attempt of downplaying the gravity of Charles de Gaulle's tragic death, by suggesting a comparison with a tragedy which had just earlier claimed many lives. The people and government of France took this editorial choice as a deliberate felony of lèse-majesté against the deceased President. As a result, the Hara-Kiri Hebdo was immediately and permanently banned. Charlie Hebdo was started immediately afterwards.

My question is, where was the freedom of press and free speech when Hara-Kiri Hebdo was permanently banned?

@Areesh @Akheilos @Bratva @Donatello @forcetrip @Gufi @HRK @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @MastanKhan @niaz @Rafael @RescueRanger @Secur @Slav Defence @TankMan @WebMaster

Appeasement, although I'm a firm believer in free speech. Humans are pathetic recipient of such freedom, can't handle it when it's their sensibilities and customs being questioned, but jump to defend it from those who oppose it for other reasons.

Freedom of speech is not well defined at all, it differs from person to person and if the application of freedom of speech in question bares enough strong opinion with some sort of consensus, you can bet it will be silenced officially or unofficially.

If you're asking; isn't this hypocrisy? I say, why yes it is! Human nature at it's finest.
 
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Would that be similar to a country full of people hating on other religions while expecting the death penalty for people saying something against theirs? Or do you, in your infinite wisdom, classify that as the rule of law?


Blasphemy is a deceptive and fraudulent law---there is no place for it in islam. Blasphemy law is as un-Islamic as they come.

This law is enforced by those of sickness of mind and soul---all the rapists---murderers---killers are hiding behind this law.

A lots of cases in Pakistan regarding blasphemy are enforced to hide crimes----like a case in Gujranwala in the 90's---a good muslims wanted to have sex with this Christian girl---her brother stopped the criminal----on confrontation---the good muslim started shouting that these Christians have blasphemed----crowd gathered---speakers in the mosques opened up---the brother of the girl was beaten---killed----his dead body set on fire and dragged behind motorcycle---.

Wa'Allah the great warriors of islam----.
 
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IMO, this debate will never end in my life time...it's as subjective as you can get.

Everyone has a different view about it.
 
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Anti-semitism is racial. Being a Muslim is not being a member of a racial/ethnic group. I can convert to Christianity but cannot convert to being a black man, no matter how much I want.
I feel sad when highly educated and critical minds make such false statements. We find Arab jews, we find European Jews, we find African Jews, we find Iranian Jews, we find Indian Jews; Jews, just like Muslims are found among various races/ethnicities. How come Jews are one race?

African Jews:
nigeria-100308.jpg


Iranian Jews:
Mideast-Iran-Nuclear_Horo-1-e1384889917997.jpg


Left: European Jew; Right: Arab Yemani Jew:
jews2.jpg

Indian Jews:
31177979.jpg


Did you notice they didn't kill them? That they just banned them and they were alive to start another magazine? That's kinda what we're trying to point out.
Looks like you are under an impression that I don't know about this history of all that.

Well, this was not for the first time that Charlie Hebdo published Mohammed (PBUH) cartoons. First time it happened in 2006. The magazine, under the title "Mahomet débordé par les intégristes" ("Muhammad overwhelmed by fundamentalists"), the front page showed a cartoon of a weeping Muhammad saying "C'est dur d'être aimé par des cons" ("it's hard being loved by jerks"). Nobody went on killing---

In September 2012, the newspaper published a series of satirical cartoons of Muhammad (PBUH), some of which featured nude caricatures of him. Nobody went on killing them this time too---

Had the French government did the needful, as she did when the French President was mocked, things wont have come to this.
 
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