DON'T HAVE ENOUGH JETS TO FIGHT 2 FRONT WAR INVOLVING CHINA AND PAKISTAN : IAF

[Vergennes]

it does not give much confidence to the people of india having been told the iaf wont be fight of china and pakistan at the same time.

India will never fight a two fronts war,this is just a pretext used to get more budgets and more means. Such as the Americans are doing with ISIS and evil-Russia.

 

[Blue Marlin]

India will never fight a two fronts war,this is just a pretext used to get more budgets and more means. Such as the Americans are doing with ISIS and evil-Russia.

well yes but i think its a bit desprate making it public saying you cant defend the country. can you imagine the french airforce saying somthing similar [hypotheticaly]

 

[Vergennes]

well yes but i think its a bit desprate making it public saying you cant defend the country. can you imagine the french airforce saying somthing similar [hypotheticaly]

Well,that's what (amost) we are already doing. A new white paper is coming and of course everyone will try to get more budget and means.
-
Our armed forces's chief of staff is saying that we are near a breaking point and if an operation in Libya is decided,he will redeploy troops from another operation to Libya. Or ask for an increase in budget,but of course it will take time.
-
Our air force chief of staff is saying that we cannot deploy more than 20 jets in operation and that we will struggle if there's an operation in Libya or anywhere else.
-
Our navy's chief of staff wants a second aircraft carrier and saying that the navy is near a breaking point because it is doing more than it was planned in the last white paper and that they need more means.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Well,that's what (amost) we are already doing. A new white paper is coming and of course everyone will try to get more budget and means.
-
Our armed forces's chief of staff is saying that we are near a breaking point and if an operation in Libya is decided,he will redeploy troops from another operation to Libya. Or ask for an increase in budget,but of course it will take time.
-
Our air force chief of staff is saying that we cannot deploy more than 20 jets in operation and that we will struggle if there's an operation in Libya or anywhere else.
-
Our navy's chief of staff wants a second aircraft carrier and saying that the navy is near a breaking point because it is doing more than it was planned in the last white paper and that they need more means.

well if thats how its done then two can play at that. $hit we need 2 more aircraft carriers with emals and we need at least a dozen more type 26's. we must start wrok on the challenger 3 mbt and we need at least 126 more typhoons and f35-c for the carriers finally we need more astute subs at least 6. if we dont get the stuff then in 5 years we have a big chance of being invaded. so yeah we need this.

 

[Abingdonboy]

India will never fight a two fronts war,this is just a pretext used to get more budgets and more means. Such as the Americans are doing with ISIS and evil-Russia.

I don't understand why many are so quick to rule it out, if India was to be engaged in a conflict with China then one can bet Pakistan will start kicking up trouble in the West if not to act as a proxy for their big brother but to take advantadge of the situation. Look at 1971, military operations were centered around the Easter sector (now Bangledesh) the Pakistani used this oppurtunity to escalate the conflict into a full scale war and launched operations on India's Western border- a two front war. The lessons from that war are still being applied to India's military thinking today.

well if thats how its done then two can play at that.

I have a lot of respect for you @Blue Marlin and I don't understand why you being so naive on this subject. In the UK, senior military brass have been doing this for as long as I can remember.

UK military chief warns over reluctance to use force - FT.com

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Don't play politics with defence - Telegraph

Cuts will hit UK military capability, service chiefs warn MPs - FT.com

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Defence chief Sir David Richards warns over MoD cuts - BBC News


'Resurgent Russia' means we should halt cuts to UK military manpower, says ex-Army chief | UK | News | Daily Express

‘Our country looks weak’ - says former army chief Lord Dannatt - Politics - Eastern Daily Press

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These are games ALL senior military brass play these days in democracies, they have to make their case and do so as publically as possible- the more belligerent the polticans, the more outspoken the military may have to be.

It is the job of the military brass to get as much resource as possible, I don't see anything wrong in these actions.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I don't understand why many are so quick to rule it out, if India was to be engaged in a conflict with China then one can bet Pakistan will start kicking up trouble in the West if not to act as a proxy for their big brother but to take advantadge of the situation. Look at 1971, military operations were centered around the Easter sector (now Bangledesh) the Pakistani used this oppurtunity to escalate the conflict into a full scale war and launched operations on India's Western border- a two front war. The lessons from that war are still being applied to India's military thinking today.


I have a lot of respect for you @Blue Marlin and I don't understand why you being so naive on this subject. In the UK, senior military brass have been doing this for as long as I can remember.



These are games ALL senior military brass play these days in democracies, they have to make their case and do so as publically as possible- the more belligerent the polticans, the more outspoken the military may have to be.

It is the job of the military brass to get as much resource as possible, I don't see anything wrong in these actions.

do you really think india will go to war with china. not in about 20 years minimum.

well mate its called being sarcastic. everyone does it but with us we have a reason to do so witha good excuse. russia and terrorism. india its harder to justify so that may be the reason to just come clean and say it as it is.

 

[Abingdonboy]

do you really think india will go to war with china. not in about 20 years minimum.

that may be the reason to just come clean and say it as it is.

Indian military planners cannot afford to assume anything.

well mate its called being sarcastic. everyone does it but with us we have a reason to do so witha good excuse. russia and terrorism. india its harder to justify

Do you really think the UK/NATO/US is going to go to war with Russia? I'd say the chances are about as likely as India going to war with China and yet the West is using this excuse to build up their militaries also.


When a nation in the West does it, it is called being "realistic" or "understandable" but if India does the same they are criticised? India has the right to defend itself too.

terrorism

And India doesn't have any threats from terrorism? India's threat from terrorists is about 100 times greater than any nation in the West as it is the victim of state sponsered terrorism right across its border.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Indian military planners cannot afford to assume anything.


Do you really think the UK/NATO/US is going to go to war with Russia? I'd say the chances are about as likely as India going to war with China and yet the West is using this excuse to build up their militaries also.


And India doesn't have any threats from terrorism? India's threat from terrorists is about 100 times greater than any nation in the West as it is the victim of state sponsered terrorism right across its border.

well lets see if his comment went on deaf ears or not. time will tell

 

[Abingdonboy]

well lets see if his comment went on deaf ears or not. time will tell

A solitary comment will not make a difference but it is about feeding a certain narrative ie, India is in dire need of upgrading its military and this narrative has a lot of weight behind it and has forced the civlians to start tackling it- it is already successful.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

DON'T HAVE ENOUGH JETS TO FIGHT 2 FRONT WAR INVOLVING CHINA AND PAKISTAN : IAF

Don't worry India, China is facing the similar problem or even worst, we don't have enough of jets to fight multi-front war involving: India, US, Japan, Vietnam, Philippine. I hope we can comfort IAF with this clarification.

 

[SQ8]

I think your point is quite interesting, but given the small fleet of bangladesh, it can be easily attributed into a service rate margin factor for China+Pak. If our assumption is a 5% of perceived service rat for the hostile forces ,that is more than enough to factor in bangladesh's air force.

But unlike the IAF brass, I don't think IAF has enough platforms to even to position itself for Air superiority of pakistan, forget a two front war.

@Oscar @PARIKRAMA
Force projections are looking quite bleak even with the additional rafales, and MKI's.

So just as an exercise of what options can be utilized to required squadron strength in short term.

1> Jaguar Darin III upgrades with all post 98 airframes re-engined to a tuned GTX-35VS with a throttled 46KN and afterburner 78 KN spec. Approx 98 units - All units transferred to IN for Maritime strike role.

2> Follow on 36 Rafales - direct procurement.

3> 45 follow on Mig29K, as per Strategic Road map for IN

5> LCA 1P increase to 300 units.

6> 2 squadrons of used Mig29SMT from RuAF upgraded to UPG standard.

The best solution for a quick fix is not the Mig-35 but a somewhere in the middle Mig-29 purchase from an existing user and putting them into the UPG program. That will provide a good quick upgrade and help replace the older death traps.
Pathankot's and Naliya's orbat is really suffering anyway and the field needs an upgrade as such..

 

[randomradio]

The best solution for a quick fix is not the Mig-35 but a somewhere in the middle Mig-29 purchase from an existing user and putting them into the UPG program. That will provide a good quick upgrade and help replace the older death traps.
Pathankot's and Naliya's orbat is really suffering anyway and the field needs an upgrade as such..

IAF will never do that, especially when there is a plan to manufacture two or three MMRCAs in India.

 

[Vergennes]

well if thats how its done then two can play at that. $hit we need 2 more aircraft carriers with emals and we need at least a dozen more type 26's. we must start wrok on the challenger 3 mbt and we need at least 126 more typhoons and f35-c for the carriers finally we need more astute subs at least 6. if we dont get the stuff then in 5 years we have a big chance of being invaded. so yeah we need this.

The armed forces already got ; (After Charlie Hebdo attacks.)

Planned cuts partially abandoned.
+ €3,8Bn
+11.000 soldiers and +12.000 reservists over 2 years.

And after the attacks of november.

-All planned cuts were definitely abandoned. (34.000 jobs were planned to go !)


We are waiting the next white paper (Probably before the summer),and rumors say that there will be a good increase in means and that the army size could be increased by a further 9.000.
Hollande would want the army to permanently deploy 3.000 more soldiers in the streets (7.000+3.000 = 10.000) and army's chief of staff said he needs 9.000 more soldiers to fulfill this task.

Everyone's trying to get as much € and means as possible.

@Abingdonboy All of this isn't because of Russia.... but just some fanatics with AKs....

 

[Abingdonboy]

The best solution for a quick fix is not the Mig-35 but a somewhere in the middle Mig-29 purchase from an existing user and putting them into the UPG program. That will provide a good quick upgrade and help replace the older death traps.
Pathankot's and Naliya's orbat is really suffering anyway and the field needs an upgrade as such..

One of the most important purposes of the Rafale buy is to induct cutting edge systems with high availability to offset the less than optimal ready rates of the heavy twin engined Russian Flankers (75% for the MKI vs 90% for the Rafale). Inducting another heavy twin engined Russian fighter would be counter productive not to mention the MiG-35's doesn't offer anything like the level of performance as the Rafale.

 

[SQ8]

One of the most important purposes of the Rafale buy is to induct cutting edge systems with high availability to offset the less than optimal ready rates of the heavy twin engined Russian Flankers (75% for the MKI vs 90% for the Rafale). Inducting another heavy twin engined Russian fighter would be counter productive not to mention the MiG-35's doesn't offer anything like the level of performance as the Rafale.

You are not looking for that, you are looking for a quick stop-gap / filler like the M2K and Mig-29 upgrade. In this case, more UPG like aircraft as compared to the Mig-35.