Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

[simonyaqoob]

The whole nation is facing problems, you guys are not alone. If there are any "Community Specific" problems, I request you to please list them.

Yeah sure, here are "specific" problems faced by Christians in Pakistan.

1. Christians are facing discrimination in Schools, Colleges, Universities, jobs (both private and government).
2. Christians are called with some very disgraceful names like "chooray" or "American Agents".
3. Christians cannot become Prime Minister or President of Pakistan.
4. Christians cannot become head of any armed force of Pakistan.
5. There is a blasphemy law which is only for Muslims and Christians are trapped in this case falsely.
6. Our all Christian school were nationalized means they were all taken over by the government of Pakistan and the government is still not giving them back to us.
7. Whenever Christians are making a new Church they always face problems because people take away the construction material and give threats to the workers not to work for the church.
8. Many Churches are bombed and are burnt in Pakistan since 1947.
9. Many Christian villages are burnt in Pakistan since 1947....plus Christians who are living in Muslim majority villages are being kicked out so that the villages become 100% Muslim.

And the list can go on forever but I got other answers to give

A sad incident indeed, however, these incidents are not as common as you portray them to be. Kindly search for a similar incident before and after the Gojra incident. You will get my point.

These incidents are very common in Pakistan...you said that you want to know about a similar incident well here they are....In Sangla Hill, It was the blasphemy charge against Yousaf Masih (just one man) that ignited the rage of a horde of around 2,000 Muslims on 12 November. The mob attacked, destroyed and razed three Christian churches, a convent, two Catholic schools, the homes of a Protestant pastor and a Catholic parish priest, a girls' hostel and the homes of some Christians. That was 2006 or 2005.

Then there is another incident....there is a village in Multan called "Shanti Nagar" the whole Village was burnt by Muslims in 1995 or 1996. And the people of Shanti Nagar are still receiving threats from their neighbour Muslim villages in which they are saying that they can do again what they did many years ago.

Here is another one....60- homes of Christians set on fire by Muslim attackers in village Korian in district Toba Tek, Punjab ( 25 - miles south of Faisalabad ) at 9- P.M. on Thursday, July 30, 2009.

Again there are many incidents like the above mentioned but I got other answers to give!

Do you know General Knowell Israel ? He's one of the many(5000+) Christian Officers actively serving in Pakistan Army. As for education, the Christians have their own Educational Board ! What more could one ask for. Let's say for instance that you are being side-lined for being a Christian(as unlikely as it maybe), you can just register with the Board and they will accomodate you in a Christian/Missionary school WITH ALL EXPENSES BEING PAID BY GOP.

I dont know General Knowell Israel but I do know about Cecil Chaudhry he is a veteran fighter pilot and served in Pakistan Air Force. As a Flight Lieutenant, he fought in the Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 and later, as a Squadron Leader, in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. During the 1965 war, Chaudhry and three other pilots, under the leadership of Wing Commander Anwar Shamim, destroyed the Amritsar Radar Station in a difficult attack. He was awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat (Star of Courage) for his actions during that mission. And you know what happened to him later? After being denied promotion because of his religion (Christianity), he retired from the air force as a Group Captain in July 1986. That happened to a war hero....just because he is a Christian!

And about the education board yes we got our own education board but all our Missionary schools were taken over by the government of Pakistan in 1970s and they are still not given back to us!

Won't happen.
1) They have no case to support a call for the ban.
2) The constitution does not allow such a ban.
3) How much representation does the JUI have in Pakistan, I'm not even going to say anything. You tell me.

Maybe that wont happen but still someone tried to ban the Bible....and in the press conference that person from JUI - S used disgusting words to describe The Bible....Those words were so disgusting I cant even write them here. You know when that so called Pastor from USA whose name is Terry Jones did that shameful act.....he was condemned by all Christians here in Pakistan....all Churches condemned him....and to be honest....we don't even consider him a pastor because a pastor cannot do such thing...we hate him that much. But what happened when Maulana Abdul Rauf Farooqi of JUI - S used blasphemous and disgusting words to describe The Bible? what happened when he filed a petition to ban the Bible? NOTHING...no one condemned his actions! That means Pakistan and the people living in Pakistan wants to ban the Bible. And JUI - S may not have much representation in Pakistan but they are still a Political Party and are very strong plus they got lots of supporters...you know it well.

 

[simonyaqoob]

Every year, Minority population is decreasing. In 1947, It was 30% and now 2%. Most likely minorities will disappear after few years. 99.9% Islam. I think, that is why Islamic Pakistan was formed.

No Minority, No complain !!

Minorities are decreasing in papers only...actually minorities are increasing with the rest of the population of Pakistan. about 3 years ago Pakistan had a population of 16 Carores and now its 18 Carore. That means minorities are increasing too!

 

[simonyaqoob]

The Blasphemy laws do not apply in such a situation however a case can be registered on the grounds of:
Extreme Provocation
Gross Disregard of Social Norms
Criminal Slander

So you think thats equality? Now people here are saying that Christians just cant become Prime Minister/President.....and they cant lodge a blasphemy charge if someone disrespects Christianity somehow....but still they got equal rights....lol...nice joke!

 

[simonyaqoob]

Give examples except Gojra incident?

I have already given the examples...please review my previous posts

 

[SMC]

Every year, Minority population is decreasing. In 1947, It was 30% and now 2%. Most likely minorities will disappear after few years. 99.9% Islam. I think, that is why Islamic Pakistan was formed.

No Minority, No complain !!

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? I'd suggest that you don't blow hot air out your butthole if you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Icarus]

1. Christians are facing discrimination in Schools, Colleges, Universities, jobs (both private and government).

Source please ?

2. Christians are called with some very disgraceful names like "chooray" or "American Agents".

Very true and sad indeed. Won't argue with that but this has to do more with illiteracy than hatred for minorities. How many teachers or officers have you seen referring to Christians with such unkind words ?

3. Christians cannot become Prime Minister or President of Pakistan.

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic, that is like asking why a muslim cannot to elected as Pope. He might be very pious and upright but in the end, he's not a Christian. About the same logic applies here however, I must stress that I support the abolishment of this clause.

4. Christians cannot become head of any armed force of Pakistan.

Incorrect, now your either loading things or your sources are flawed. The Armed Forces are completely secular and there is no rule barring an Officer from any religious group from becoming the Head of the Armed forces. As I said before General Knowell Israel is an active service General and a Christian. I also know a Brigadier by the name of Williams. These are just the people I know in the top ranks. There are many more in the Armed forces.

5. There is a blasphemy law which is only for Muslims and Christians are trapped in this case falsely.

Again I must stress on making arguments based on facts and not hear-say. The blasphemy laws apply to Muslims and Non-muslims alike. Muslims too have been prosecuted under the blasphemy laws.

6. Our all Christian school were nationalized means they were all taken over by the government of Pakistan and the government is still not giving them back to us.

Source ? Last I checked the convents were being run by the Pakistan Church and all the faculty were Nuns. The Cathedral Schools in Lahore are directly under the Arch-Bishop. All the students study on 100% Scholarships courtesy of the GoP. That doesn't sound too cruel to me.

7. Whenever Christians are making a new Church they always face problems because people take away the construction material and give threats to the workers not to work for the church.

Always ? Are you sure ? The Christian Town is right next to my ancestral home in Faisalabad and the Church there was built with gracious grants and donations from muslim businessmen as a goodwill gesture. Seeing as you are from Lahore, I find it hard to believe you are unaware of this.

8. Many Churches are bombed and are burnt in Pakistan since 1947.

Very sad, but so has been the case with mosques quite often. Terrorists and Extremists have no religion.

9. Many Christian villages are burnt in Pakistan since 1947....plus Christians who are living in Muslim majority villages are being kicked out so that the villages become 100% Muslim.

Source ?

These incidents are very common in Pakistan...you said that you want to know about a similar incident well here they are....In Sangla Hill, It was the blasphemy charge against Yousaf Masih (just one man) that ignited the rage of a horde of around 2,000 Muslims on 12 November. The mob attacked, destroyed and razed three Christian churches, a convent, two Catholic schools, the homes of a Protestant pastor and a Catholic parish priest, a girls' hostel and the homes of some Christians. That was 2006 or 2005.

Source for the damages ? And if you remember the whole story. Yousaf Masih was acquitted of all charges by a muslim judge and his case was fought by Asma Jahangir I believe, a muslim lawyer without any fee.

Then there is another incident....there is a village in Multan called "Shanti Nagar" the whole Village was burnt by Muslims in 1995 or 1996. And the people of Shanti Nagar are still receiving threats from their neighbour Muslim villages in which they are saying that they can do again what they did many years ago.

Sad indeed however, I would like to remind you that the entire reconstruction process was paid for and overseen by the GoP.

Here is another one....60- homes of Christians set on fire by Muslim attackers in village Korian in district Toba Tek, Punjab ( 25 - miles south of Faisalabad ) at 9- P.M. on Thursday, July 30, 2009

.

The stated incidents are very worrisome however I would like for you to see the freaquency of those incidents and assess the loss of life. You will find that:
1) Such incidents occured about 0.85 times per year since independence(as per my research) and loss of life is a rare factor.
2) In all the incidents, the compensation was arranged for by muslims as well. There are good and bad in all segments of society. Just depends on the prism from which you choose to look at it.

I dont know General Knowell Israel but I do know about Cecil Chaudhry he is a veteran fighter pilot and served in Pakistan Air Force. As a Flight Lieutenant, he fought in the Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 and later, as a Squadron Leader, in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. During the 1965 war, Chaudhry and three other pilots, under the leadership of Wing Commander Anwar Shamim, destroyed the Amritsar Radar Station in a difficult attack. He was awarded the Sitara-e-Jurat (Star of Courage) for his actions during that mission. And you know what happened to him later? After being denied promotion because of his religion (Christianity), he retired from the air force as a Group Captain in July 1986. That happened to a war hero....just because he is a Christian!

This is absolutely wrong. This piece of propaganda was crafted by some NGO for their own motives. If Cecil Chaudhry never said this was the reason for his retirement then how did some random NGO come to know about it ?

And about the education board yes we got our own education board but all our Missionary schools were taken over by the government of Pakistan in 1970s and they are still not given back to us!

Last I checked, Missionary Schools were the concern of Pakistani Church.

Maybe that wont happen but still someone tried to ban the Bible....and in the press conference that person from JUI - S used disgusting words to describe The Bible....Those words were so disgusting I cant even write them here. You know when that so called Pastor from USA whose name is Terry Jones did that shameful act.....he was condemned by all Christians here in Pakistan....all Churches condemned him....and to be honest....we don't even consider him a pastor because a pastor cannot do such thing...we hate him that much. But what happened when Maulana Abdul Rauf Farooqi of JUI - S used blasphemous and disgusting words to describe The Bible? what happened when he filed a petition to ban the Bible? NOTHING...no one condemned his actions! That means Pakistan and the people living in Pakistan wants to ban the Bible. And JUI - S may not have much representation in Pakistan but they are still a Political Party and are very strong plus they got lots of supporters...you know it well.

Firstly, the reason this did not draw kuch condemnation was probably because no one heard of it. I'll be honest with you I watch and read my news religiously and I never heard of it.
Secondly, JUI-S does not have "many" supporters, it's pretty much a farce.
Lastly, there have been moves to ban the Quran across the world. The world is no short of bigots however. There is a difference between bigotry of a person/organization and bigotry of an entire society.

---------- Post added at 10:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------

So you think thats equality? Now people here are saying that Christians just cant become Prime Minister/President.....and they cant lodge a blasphemy charge if someone disrespects Christianity somehow....but still they got equal rights....lol...nice joke!

I already stated that they can lodge a complaint just not under the blasphemy laws. Do European Blasphemy laws allow muslims to report disrespect for Islam ? You'll get your answer, just google it.

 

[Karachiite]

First of all, Christians are not just 2% in Pakistan. Christians are 10% to 15% in Pakistan but the government of Pakistan always hides this fact in "Mardum Shumari". You said "I don't know what the heck is wrong with people who make a fuss about 2% Pakistanis" Well you think that Christians who are 2% (according to you) should not be given equal rights and those Christians who are being slaughtered, raped, robbed, blown up, murdered in Pakistan should be avoided. Its the duty of the government of Pakistan to give equal rights to Christians no matter if they are 20% or just a ONE Christian.

BTW: Thats your hate speaking against Christians!

I fully understand that Christians or any other minority don't have may rights in Pakistan. FFS we can't even become PM or President. Although I'm Agnostic, my mothers side are Pakistani Christian and even my first name is a "Christian" name. I know the discrimination your talking about but your exaggerating too much now.
Christians according to a few sources are 20 million. Pakistani Government not only hides the actual figures of religious minorities but also ethnic minorities like Urdu Speakers. Its purely political.
No Christian is being killed everyday because of their religion in Pakistan. Don't know if any have been blown up. Again I can't speak for all of Pakistan but I do know that this doesn't happen in Karachi and maybe even Lahore. The less educated areas are more prone to religious violence and discrimination.

Anyways man like you I will never ever forget the Gojra incident. And next elections please make the right choice by voting for a secular party. Its not PML-N or PPP, it not PTI its MQM. They are the only ones raising their voices against religious discrimination and are the ones who want Jinnah's Secular Pakistan.

 

[thegreensprite]

They must abide by our Laws and stop acting against the state

What law is that? There is no law... it's a hellhole.

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Dear asim i was not talking about faith but i was talking about their Claim to be Muslims while they deny the very Basic and second most important element of a Muslim faith.

we did prove that their claim of being a "Muslim" community is wrong !

We cant judge their faith but what we can do is to Keep ours in a real shape and not let Mushriks hide among us and do harm.

In Simple words , i dont really give a damn about what they believe but i do care about them trying to disguise once again in Islam.

regards:

Fortunately a true Muslim doesn't have to prove anything to Man to be close to Allah. Pakistanis are some of the worst creatures on this earth.. who cares who they label kafir...

 

[Roybot]

Mod Edit (so that you guys dont miss it

Post All news related to Domestic crime or Vigilante Justice that hit national News.

Do:
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All threads that are posted separately in the section will be moved or deleted (if they already exist here) the regular offenders will be contacted to follow the guidelines failing to do so will result in warnings and then infractions.

The purpose of this section is not to be a copy & paste report dump but a meaningful and thought provoking debate that is civil, constructive and presents practical solutions rather than rants and arguing for the sake of arguing.

the Guidelines for the Banned topics applies here too so ensure that your posting doesnt violate these rules and all other forum rules.
I have moved all related stories here) from this point forward follow thse guide lines

regards IB

====
I will take exception to the below post as it was posted before I made this sticky and moved all related stories here.

KARACHI: Four bodies have been recovered in various areas of Karachi as the death toll of killings in the city in the past 24 hours rises to 10, DawnNews reported on Tuesday.

A body of a victim with gunshot wounds was recovered near Shahrah-e-Faial while another body showing marks of torture was recovered by the Nazimabad police in a graveyard.

Two other bodies were recovered in Surjani Town. According to the MLO at the Abbasi Shaheed Hospital, one of the victims was killed due to a head wound while the other was strangled to death.

On Monday, six bodies were recovered in various parts of the city including North Nazimabad, Kemari and Sohrab Goth.

Ten killed in Karachi violence in past 24 hours | Metropolitan | DAWN.COM

 

[SQ8]

Well.. ill be going there on friday.. home sweet home..

 

[Major vikram batra]

Can anyone tell me, why people are killing each other?

 

[newdelhinsa]

Not required.............

 

[Windjammer]

Muslims killed by Muslims do not entertain comments.

Yea, an ideal case. !!

Number 73,456 was Mohammad Ayub up until a few days ago. Born in 1951, Ayub was a chowkidar by profession. He was on his way home when he fell sick, sat down by the side of a road and passed away. The police found his body and sent it to the Edhi morgue. No one came for him and he was buried here. His younger brother, having not talked to him for a few days, finally made the journey down from Muzzafarabad to Karachi. Mohammad Ayub, now has a pukka tombstone

 

[Roybot]

The title of the thread is not right,

Where the dead have no name | | DAWN.COM

 

[newdelhinsa]

^^Yea you are right i take my words back.