Does the USA want to destroy Pakistan

[nahtanbob]

By Destroy Pakistan, I mean the end of the modern concept of Pakistan.
If they Partition Pakistan into 4 or 3 Parts, they would not have 220 million people on the move,
Just staying where they are but in smaller state's on par with Butan or Tajikistan.

If the Indians could, they 100% would, so would the Americans.

Your army is too powerful for that

Exactly. And the Pakistani elites that have been ruling the country since 1947 until today and most of the Pakistani people lucky/able to afford to leave Pakistan, have long ago made their choices pretty clear. The West is the preferred destination, not China. I don't see that ever changing to be frank.

But if somehow the combined West turn hostile to the same Pakistani "elites", I am sure that they would do everything in their power to maintain their grip of the country and if that means selling out to China instead of the US, they will do just that.

Pakistani elites are for sale to the highest bidder - America, Gulf Arabs and China. That said they are not selling the whole country. They make sure that they retain some relevance to keep milking everyone

the only losers are the masses of Pakistan

 

[Turingsage]

This mythical idea of Pakistan (at least the Pakistani elites that have ruled the country from 1947 until today) somehow being anti-West, is one of the biggest myths out there. Pakistanis love the West and almost everything Western. To the point that millions of us are based in the very same West

You only need to read any random post on PDF and see how much bile and hate pours out against the West. They do this while crossing countries risking life and limb to get to the West having sold their family silver. They see no hypocrisy here

So when they forced us to follow their bidding,
But its Pakistan fault, as they should have rejected the Peanuts?

Pakistani can NEVER reject a free peanut. Its built into the DNA

This is the reason why the CIA funds terrorist groups in Balochistan.

Its conspiracies and fantasies that Pakistani's swim in. The CIA IS NOT FUNDING THE BALOUCH .

 

[AlKardai]

The implication is that America either wants a subservient Pakistan that follows its orders, or broken weaker states formed from Pakistan

Not really. The fragmentation of Pakistan could lead to the nuclear weapons landing in the hands of the islamists, which is definitely a threat to the US.

A relatively stable Pakistan is in US interests

 

[TheSolution]

Not really. The fragmentation of Pakistan could lead to the nuclear weapons landing in the hands of the islamists, which is definitely a threat to the US.

A relatively stable Pakistan is in US interests

Fragmentive states arguably mean there's a less chance of this happening

 

[AlKardai]

Fragmentive states arguably mean there's a less chance of this happening

Fragment states mean different ideologies, and more work for the US to do when it comes to dealing with them.

 

[TheSolution]

Fragment states mean different ideologies, and more work for the US to do when it comes to dealing with them.

They'll have a more ethnic focus, less Islamic, and much less global influence or power due to them being much smaller compared to Pakistan, hence making them easier to manipulate.

Pakistan = more Islamic, resources are pooled and influence and power is greater.

Ethnic states = more emphasis on individual ethnicity rather than shared culture and Islam, smaller and less influence.

Example: Bangladesh

 

[villageidiot]

This thread should be deleted and thread starter should be banned from starting new threads for 3 months.

Not just that, OP should also be banned from reproducing.

 

[JohnyD]

cant destroy but surely wants to keep pak's foreign policy and militatry actions under its influence

 

[Meengla]

US doesn't wants to destroy Pakistan and even for the same matter India unless Pakistan poses direct and serious threat to the US interests or the main land. US only wants us to be kept on the life support economically and whenever we are needed can be used and abused for few 100 million dollars to full fill their agendas.
Imagine 220 million homeless people on the move if something happens to the Pakistan, will Europe or US or India can accommodate us? Answer is clear NO.
Then add a bit of spice there are plenty of train soldiers who can go rouge and can start new wars and destabilise the region or beyond. What if a single nuclear device is stolen and lands somewhere inside the container in Europe or US and culprit demands $100 billion to be safely disposed off.
Its too risky and too many unknown factors to grapple with and considering Pakistan is no threat to any US or Western interests and our generals are too eager to please and can be bought so easily. So why put hand in the hornets nest when one day same hornets can be set upon at others when need arises by just only giving green cards.
Why do you think our officers are given scholarships to be trained in the US/UK? Why Hillary Clinton said multiple times putting sanctions on the Pakistan in 80's they did lost all the influence on the Pakistan armed forces as no Pakistan officers were trained in the US?
We are shackled and controlled by the US by having weak economy and by our own dirty politicians who come into the power by their blessing and then those politicians are protected by the brown men wearing Khaki and the world carries on with their business.

Overall a sensible post. Bolded part: But oddly you remind me of what the former Ambassador of Pakistan Mr. Hussein Haqqani to USA said, something like, 'Pakistan gets support of foreign countries by Pakistanis' pointing a gun to their own head'. What a sad observation!!

Per my understanding, America doesn't want to 'destroy' Pakistan. Pakistan is very useful and proved very useful in several previous American engagements in the region surrounding Pakistan, going all the way back to the 1950s. In fact, Pakistan is a great tool against India if India strays away too far from American interests!!!!

And it was not just the 'generals' of Pakistan who are to be blamed ; it was also the politicians who were self-serving. Just to stay on in power--all of them. AND that is a very common theme among poor countries, with the possible exceptions of the likes of North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba etc.

Bottomline is: As long as Pakistan remains a 'Security State' in the decades-old rivalry against a growing power like India over Kashmir, Pakistan is condemned to be a 'Security State' and the rest of the phenomenon are just 'details'.

 

[SaadH]

A more pertinent question is does Pakistan's Mil-establishment wants to destroy Pakistan...

I believe it is more palpable that this is the case than any external threats...

Only the other day it was revealed that the Bundal Island development permission that we were all cursing PPP for withdrawing was ordered by none other than the neutral sepoys of the Mir Jaffer order. It didn't make sense for PPP to grant it and then pull it back, there was a higher power at play.

And the whole reason for that it threatened DHA's status as the premier piece of real estate in Pakistan's biggest city and financial hub.

Bundal island would have brought in $5bn immediately and $40bn through it's completion but neutral sepoys couldn't digest that...the hell with the country, long live DHA...

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

Its so irrational to blame USA for Pakistans own mistakes. How is it US fault when the number 1 and the politicians succumbs every little pressure exerted.
What have the politicians done for the welfare and education of the public?

When was the last time any dams were made? (previous dams were funded by USA)

How has the army and intelligence agencies protected the people of pakistan from internal and external threats?

What good has bureaucracy done for the people?

So instead of blaming others first your house in order. whatever trade pakistan does internationally US has a major share, scholarship are awarded on yearly basis to pakistan for education, medical machinery to defense industry to agriculture industry etc and much more is all at the sake of US. US offered the most funds after floods and earth quack in 2000s.
Infact why blame the only country that has helped pakistan since its independence through every thick and thin. Its our tax paying dollars spend on someone we had nothing to do with. so atleast acknowledge the deed.

 

[LeGenD]

The below video is from a few years ago.

Do you think there is substance in this?

Do you think the USA is actively trying to destabilise Pakistan and even trying
to push for a partition of Pakistan, with Balochistan going its own way and KP joining Afghanistan?

The Chanel is RT (paid for by the Russians) and the guy being interviewed is Webster Tarpley,
He also believed that 9/11 was an inside job .

Despite this, I believe this has been one of the goal's of the USA,
According to the ISI, Balochistan is being destabilised from Afghanistan,
even more so when the Americans were present.
Actions speak loader than words, the USA refuses to call certain organisations in Balochistan Terrorist's.
The only reasons the cant disengage or openly go against Pakistan is because they will lose the main weapon they
have against Pakistan, the sell outs , Mir Jafar's, in power in Pakistan who can be brought for peanuts.

We need to open our eyes to the plans of our enemies.
We can deal with India, we know they are our enemy,
It's the USA that if far more dangerous.

NO

US - Pak bilateral relations are less than ideal but following are the "positives" worth highlighting:

1. IMF bailout package(s)
2. USAID projects
3. Supply of military equipment and parts
4. Operation Cyclone to help counter USSR in Afghanistan
5. Trade
6. Allowed Pakistan to become a nuclear power and develop nuclear safeguards
7. Prevented another Pakistan - India war since 2002

But US wants to work with India as well. India has greater appeal due to its political stability, independent foreign policy, and sustainable economy.

Pakistan's political instability prevented it from becoming a true democratic state like India, and corruption prevented it from developing sustainable economy. Pakistani are also very eager to blame US for everything bad in the country.

There is a need to reset Pakistan - US bilateral relationship.

Pakistan should also think about how to better manage its neighborhood. WE cannot change our neigbors, right?

 

[Turingsage]

Maybe its the Indians !!!!!!!!!!!!​

​

Samosa Caucus in US Congress and Pakistan​

In the mid-term election, over 40 Indian-Americans made it to various offices across the US

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Imtiaz Gul November 17, 2022

The writer heads the independent Centre for Research and Security Studies, Islamabad and is the author of ‘Pakistan: Pivot of Hizbut Tahrir’s Global Caliphate’

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In the November 8 mid-term election to the US House of Representatives and the Senate, over 40 Indian-Americans made it to various offices across the country. Five of them — Shri Tanedar, Dr Ami Bera, Ro Khanna, Raja Krishnamoorthi and Pramila Jayapal — are now part of the ‘Samosa Caucus’ in the new-look Congress.
What challenges does the ‘Samosa Caucus’ — they call themselves so — represent for a politically embattled and economically struggling Pakistan? What future does a country — where the elite have thrived at the cost of the dominant majority — have in view of the galloping Indian-American influence in the US political economy?
Let’s first see how this influence spawns the American landscape.
A key speechwriter for President Joe Biden is Vijay Reddy, an Indian American. Biden had, as of Sept 2022, appointed 130 Indian-Americans to key positions in his administration. This is the best representation thus far from a community that makes up around 1% of the 330 million American population.
Two Indian-Americans, Manu Asthana and Madhu Beriwal, are part of Biden’s 26-member National Infrastructure Advisory Council which advises White House on how to reduce physical and cyber risks, and improve security and resilience of the nation’s critical infrastructure sectors.
Another Indian-American, Ajay Jain Bhutoria, is a member of the President’s Advisory Commission on Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders.
Prominent Indian-Americans who won in the mid-term election to various state legislatures include Arvind Venkat, Tarik Khan in Pennsylvania; Salman Bhojani and Suleman Lalani in Texas; Sam Singh and Ranjeev Puri in Michigan; Nabeela Syed, Megan Srinivas and Kavin Olickal in Illinois; Nabliah Islam and Farooq Mughal in Georgia; Kumar Bharve in Maryland; and Anita Samani in Ohio. The victors also include four Mayors.
“Led by Sunder Pichai of Google and Satya Nadella of Microsoft, there are over two dozen Indian-Americans heading US firms. Among others are Shantanu Narayen of Adobe, Vivek Lall of General Atomics, Punit Renjen of Deloitte, and Raj Subramaniam of FedEx. This is something to be proud of,” said Raj Panjabi, a Senior Director for Global Health Security and Biodefence on the White House National Security Council at a celebration ‘Azadi Ka Amrit Mahotsava’ by 75 Indian-American organisations at the US Capitol. The theme for the celebration was Stronger Together: US-India Partnership.
Panjabi underlined that “the US-India Strategic Partnership is grounded in our shared commitment to the rule of law and the promotion of human freedom and dignity.”
Whether or not such slogans would pass the test of principles and morality, the expansion of the Samosa Caucus in the US Congress stands out as the irreversible rise of the Indian-American influence in the power corridors. This represents an incredulous upward mobility of the Indian diaspora in the US, where as many as 82 Muslims also made it to various representative positions in the mid-terms.
This must indeed be worrisome for Pakistan, as the PDM government and the establishment struggle to douse flames from Imran Khan’s rhetoric on the “consequences of the regime change”, the quest for rule of law and ‘haqeeqi azaadi’, it is becoming increasingly problematic for Islamabad and Rawalpindi to make a case in Washington.
Khan’s latest vow for “good relationship with all including the US in future” sounds good but the key question is whether detractors would agree to ‘move on’ instead of repeatedly using the ‘conspiracy narrative’ that Khan had woven since March 27.
Pakistan will certainly not perish without good relations with the US. But it will not either move forward if it continued to radiate hostility towards Washington, where policymaking currently is directly or otherwise influenced by the dozens of Indian-Americans around Biden. An intrinsic dislike — if not hatred — of Pakistan is natural for these key advisers. Our ruling elite will push the country into even deeper crisis and global isolation if they refuse to acknowledge the weight of the Indian-Americans in White House, State Department and the US Congress.

The Express Tribune
Published in The Express Tribune, November 17th, 2022.

 

[epebble]

This man never stops putting his feet in his mouth

Former Ambassador Maleeha Lodhi Takes Imran Khan To Task Over ‘US Slavery’ Remarks​

Former Ambassador Maleeha Lodhi Takes Imran Khan To Task Over ‘US Slavery’ Remarks

Pakistan’s former ambassador to the US Dr. Maleeha Lodhi has reacted strongly to the statement made by Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chairman Imran Khan on

www.thefridaytimes.com

 

[Catalystic]

This maleeha lodhi has milked pak treasury enough past few decades with ambassadorships while accomplishing nothing.

All these useless people just wasting funds taxpayers money
Leeches of the highest order.