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Does the PN need an aircraft carrier?

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ARY NEWS ?Har Lamha Bakhabar? Port 80

and your other sources didnt have anything about Pakistans nuclear submarine

Some of the links are working fine...

Has any deal been signed yet or ur just cooking it up as usual???:azn:

Its still in the pipeline... but the deal for 4 more improved F-23Ps,GENESIC Combat upgrade etc have been approved..
 
tell me which one ...
May. 26, 2012

By USMAN ANSARI


ISLAMABAD — Days after Pakistan hinted that it possesses a sea-based second nuclear strike capability, Indian Defence Ministry officials remained silent on the matter, and outside observers were skeptical that the Navy had such a capability.

On May 19, the head of the Pakistan Navy, Adm. Asif Sandhila, inaugurated the Headquarters of the Naval Strategic Force Command (NSFC). A press release by the military’s Inter Services Public Relations stated the NSFC “will perform a pivotal role in development and employment of the Naval Strategic Force,” and was “the custodian of the nation’s 2nd strike capability.”

Beyond the announcement, Pakistan’s Navy has said little about the office or about the service’s capabilities.

In February, Sandhila told Defense News that the Pakistan Navy was mindful of India’s plans to complete the sea-based arm of its nuclear triad, and was “taking necessary measures to restore the strategic balance” in the Indian Ocean region.

Christian Le Mière, a research fellow for naval forces and maritime security at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said Pakistan’s sea-based deterrent is “most likely” the widely speculated submarine-launched variant of the Babur/Hatf-7 (Vengeance-7) cruise missile.

“The Babur is already nuclear-capable and is expected to be used on submarines,” he said. “I have not seen verifiable evidence of any tests for a submarine-launched version, but it is perfectly feasible that a [submarine-launched cruise missile] is now available.”

Analyst Usman Shabbir, with the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, said Pakistan has been working on its sea-based deterrent for some time.

“When the Babur was first revealed in 2005, it was claimed that it is mainly designed to be deployed from submarines. There was at least that speculation,” he said.

The Navy “has pretty good experience in using similar systems; for example, both submarine-launched Harpoon and Exocet [missiles] use a similar system, and [the Navy] has operated both for a long time.”

Shabbir speculated that the Babur/Hatf-7 missiles might be fired from torpedo tubes, similar to UGM-84 Harpoons.

But Le Mière believes there may still be some room for doubt.

“The phrase ‘sea-based second strike’ suggests a surface vessel could also be used if a submarine-launched version is not yet ready,” he said. “But obviously, while a surface vessel is mobile, it is far less survivable and far more detectable than a sub.”

As for Pakistan’s neighbor to the east, Harsh Pant, international relations lecturer at the Department of Defence Studies at King’s College in London, said India is neither alarmed nor disadvantaged by this development.

“India had factored this reality into its force posture much before this acknowledgement,” Pant said. “I do not see this changing the ground reality, insofar [as the] India-Pakistan nuclear posture is concerned. Despite what outsiders might think, nuclear deterrence in South Asia remains robust.

“The real problem remains the role of non-state actors,” he added. “In that context, Pakistan’s sea-based second strike capability is more reassuring, because the non-state actors will not have as easy access to it as the land- or air-based one.”

He said, “Indian policymakers should welcome this development, as it removes the veil of secrecy over this issue.”

New Delhi analyst Nitin Mehta also cast doubt on Pakistan’s nuclear maritime capability.

“It is unlikely that Pakistan has the capability to design and develop a sea-based nuclear missile, since even China, which is known to be helping Pakistan in its nuclear capabilities, does not possesses a credible submarine-launched missile,” he said. “Pakistan could be developing an undersea nuclear ballistic missile, but it cannot do it on its own.”

Other analysts are not certain the Pakistan Navy can afford to undertake the responsibility of the nation’s second-strike capability.

Brian Cloughley, a former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, said the size of Pakistan’s submarine force is too small to carry out such a task.

“Pakistan’s current submarine fleet is not adequate in numbers [although well-trained] to be able to undertake detection and effective interdiction of the Indian fleet, given its size — which is increasing, even if slowly,” he said.

Pakistan has two refurbished 1970s-era Agosta-70 and three 1990s-era Agosta-90B subs. The latter are equipped with air independent propulsion (AIP) or are in the process of being retrofitted with the AIP module, and incrementally entered service beginning in 1999.

Le Mière believes Pakistan could, at a stretch, maintain a constant deterrent patrol.

“Once all the Agosta-90Bs are fitted with AIP, this should theoretically allow for one submarine deployed for most of the time, with another in refit and another in reserve,” he said. “In theory, this allows for constant patrols, but in reality, problems with boats usually lead to gaps if there is a three-boat fleet.”

Le Mière conceded, though, this would cause other problems.

“This would be the majority of the Pakistani fleet dedicated to nuclear strike, or certainly dedicating a significant portion of its arsenal to nuclear-tipped Baburs,” he said. “Hence, whether this second-strike capability will in fact be deployed in a form of near-constant at-sea deterrence is questionable until Pakistan is able to procure further submarines to fill the conventional role, as well.”

Cloughley said the interdiction of India’s fleet “must remain [the Navy’s] first priority,” and he considers “conversion of the present assets to take Babur not only costly, but a most regrettable diversion of budget allocation.

“I would go so far as to say that, in present circumstances, it would be a grave error if such a program were to go ahead,” he added.

Pakistan has a requirement for 12 to 14 subs to meet Navy expansion plans. This would allow for a constant war patrol of at least one deterrent-tasked submarine, leaving other submarines to carry out more traditional tasks.

However, Cloughley is still certain that Pakistan does not require such a capability.

“[Pakistan] has plenty of nuclear-capable SSMs and strike aircraft, and does not need a Navy-oriented second-strike capability,” he said.

Correspondent Vivek Raghuvanshi in New Delhi contributed to this report.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...opment-news-discussions-27.html#ixzz2TvwbuWzi


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Pakistan has decided to build nuclear submarine for Pakistan Navy to better meet its defense requirements.

The nuclear submarine would be build in the country.

It would take anywhere from 5 to 8 years to build the nuclear submarine after which Pakistan would join the list of countries that has a nuclear submarine.

Presently Pakistan has a fleet of five regular submarines.

Source: http://www.******************/forum...vy-build-nuclear-submarine.html#ixzz2TvwkusNP


http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...t4CoAw&usg=AFQjCNE5tvMHEJEb-4tUNRYuKdjsPposEQ
 
Wouldn't it be better if instead of buying one very expensive ship we upgrade our entire navy with the same amount. How the hell are we going to protect the AC. Either we use entire navy to protect the AC or buy new ships which in present scenario doe not seem viable.
 
Yes, maybe not the huge carrier that US has, but carriers a carrier about the size of Liaoning would be great.

With Pakistan's population and growth rate, Pakistan should have a naval presence in the oceans. Chinese allies should be as capable as US allies.

However, this must be preceded by economic development that would allow this.

Perfect time would be at J-31 induction time as it would allow an advance carrier ready fighter, and by that time hopefully Pakistan will have a big enough budget to allow for carriers.

Even an AC like Liaoning will be a white elephant for PN, so PN has not enough funds or capability to support it.

What i suggest for Pakistan is to build up a stronger economy in the next decade.

PN also needs to build a strong reliable system for its navy in order to support the modern warships such boomers and Aegis DDGs.
 
Not yet. Making a country stronger isn't all about strenghting the military. So IMO, Pakistan should fix up her economy first, then enlarge the navy, and then it's possible for thinking AC's.
 
Not yet. Making a country stronger isn't all about strenghting the military. So IMO, Pakistan should fix up her economy first, then enlarge the navy, and then it's possible for thinking AC's.
btw do u realy think we need AC/s
our coastline is very short 750km.
 
btw do u realy think we need AC/s
our coastline is very short 750km.

I know man. But when you take the steps I've mentioned, you'll need a strong and a large navy that it would be fully mobilised, capable and flexible. That's the part where the term "Aircraft Carrier" comes in.
 
PN will probably go for it in future. Given Pakistan's current economic condition, an AC is something they cannot afford.

btw do u realy think we need AC/s
our coastline is very short 750km.

If countries like Italy and Thailand can operate AC's then why not you.
 
PN will probably go for it in future. Given Pakistan's current economic condition, an AC is something they cannot afford.

If countries like Italy and Thailand can operate AC's then why not you.

No Pakistan may go for more better equipped destroyers and submarines in the Future provided better economy and funds availability.

Thailand Foreign Exchange Reserves are $179B VS Pakistan $11B other thing Thailand was an agriculture Nation in the past 1 decade they have become industrialized Nation.
 
capital ships of the type people are advocating are no.1 expensive to purchase, and no.2 very expensive to maintain. no.3 the PN's inventory will be used to provide protection for this carrier when it is at sea. carriers never venture out all by their lonesome. so for the nth time forget it.......
 
typical carrier costs....

The first of the new Ford-class (CVN-21) aircraft carriers will go for at least $14 billion (this includes R&D for the entire CVN-21 class). The current Nimitz-class carriers cost $4.5 billion each. After the first one, Ford class carriers will cost twice that.

EDA carrier would cost at least $2.0 billion for an upgrade.

$ 4.5 billion is 80% of PK defence budget....!!!
 
Its far better for the PN to look into doing JV with Germans along on SSK and small Coastal SSKs that will have the same punch like original ones but with lesser range and invite Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Jordan to join in.

Also Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt, Libya and Algeria should also look in to French future programs of SSK and small Coastal SSKs to join in...

Carriers are risky and expensive... we need submarines... INSHA ALLAH.
 
THE ONLY COUNTRIES THAT SHOULD DEPLOY carriers are BIG STRONG TRADING NATIONS with multi bilion dollar trade.

THEY need to protect their sea lines AND also nations with massive coastlines need CARRIERS

BESIDES the big 5 permanent powers THE OTHERS FITTING INTO THIS catagory for me are

Canada
Brazil
India
JAPAN
possibly near future AUSTRLLIA INDONEASIA & SAUDI

FOR pakistan completely not needed from any angle be it trade, coastline or budget.
 

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