alimobin memon
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are indian sea harriers better than pak navy mirages?
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are indian sea harriers better than pak navy mirages?
The harriers are slow moving , things really low quality fighter jets , Mirages are probably better with harriers the advantage is just the vertical landing - The mirages we have can carry Missiles that can dent a big hole in Indian ships if need be , big enough to sink them
Harriers are just marginally better then helicopters
Against a real jet fighter like Mirage or F7 , or our advance planes like F16 and Thunders , in future J10b the harrier will be nothing more then a dead goose, but I believe that plane will be decommissioned by Indians as they are also retiring the carrier that has the harriers on it
The harriers are slow moving , things really low quality fighter jets , Mirages are probably better with harriers the advantage is just the vertical landing - The mirages we have can carry Missiles that can dent a big hole in Indian ships if need be , big enough to sink them
Harriers are just marginally better then helicopters
Against a real jet fighter like Mirage or F7 , or our advance planes like F16 and Thunders , in future J10b the harrier will be nothing more then a dead goose, but I believe that plane will be decommissioned by Indians as they are also retiring the carrier that has the harriers on it
Indians just purchased the old carrier for prestige , and because the deck was so small they could not fly decent planes off it so bought the harriers (to compensate for things sorta speak)
This is why VTOL F-35 is such a important machine to have.
The harriers are slow moving , things really low quality fighter jets , Mirages are probably better with harriers the advantage is just the vertical landing - The mirages we have can carry Missiles that can dent a big hole in Indian ships if need be , big enough to sink them
With some of the advance Missiles Pakistan Air force has , the harrier would probably be sunk underwater before they even see any of our planes
Harrier's speed is marginally more then Helicopters I mean these things are slow and out dated
The only problem we have is that there is a gap of 10-30 minutes before the mirages would reach the ships out in mission at sea etc - while with a aircraft carrier , you have instant air craft launch and defenses up
Harriers are just marginally better then helicopters
Against a real jet fighter like Mirage or F7 , or our advance planes like F16 and Thunders , in future J10b the harrier will be nothing more then a dead goose, but I believe that plane will be decommissioned by Indians as they are also retiring the carrier that has the harriers on it
Indians just purchased the old carrier for prestige , and because the deck was so small they could not fly decent planes off it so bought the harriers (to compensate for things sorta speak)
Harriers probably would be advantageous when there is a situation when a opposing ship did not had any air defenses , and the harrier just came about and did some damage , but I do believe we have hand held missiles which would make short work of a plane like Harrier in short notice
For us the first piece of puzzle really are
a) Decent Frigates (11-12 is what we have , we need it to be 20 )
b) Destroyers (There are talks of 2-4 ships on lease)
c) Submarines (3 we got , we need another 6 , to be close to 10 submarines)
d) J11 (Air Support - I mean this is just matter of time)
Once we attain these basics , after that I suppose we can say I mean do we really need a carrier
Indians might feel they need to buy a carrier but its not a must must for us not untill we first have a basic Navy created properly armed
Depends on the war arena. Read about the Falkland wars. British Sea Harriers were up against the more advanced Argentinian Dassault Mirages. What no one realized is that Harriers can actually come to a stand still and hover in the air giving them a massive advantage in a dogfight. The Mirages were totally routed in the dog fight.
This is why VTOL F-35 is such a important machine to have.
F-35 once this machine is 100% in use, we will see new strategy in warfare which will just focusing on destroying airfields as oppose to planes no runways no launching of your fancy planes
But these tactics are already in use , just perhaps the emphasis will be even more , to out date the 4th generation fighters
May be the SAMs will be more importance then to protect airfields
New Recruit
I mean really unless we are planning on a world domination which we are not we don't need many ships
20 Frigates, 4 destroyers, 10-12 submarines, and 50 J11 is just about right for our needs as a navy perhaps may be addition of 20 Stealth missile boat and that is , its perfect for our defensive needs as a nation.
Aircraft carrier is just too costly , and its an out dated platform , specially as I stated , it can be knocked out with 3-4 Aircraft carrier killer missiles or even a nuclear strike on carrier , so you can cost 5-10 billion dollar damage to someone with one strike
Aircraft carriers are not that special weapon which they were once upon a time in world war 2
Worse come to worse to patrol the Somali/ Saudi waters , we can have joint patrols with Saudi Navy or Chinese Navy ships but other then that I just do not see carrier as a must
20 Frigates, 4 Destroyers, and 12 submarines , 20 stealth missile boats would do fine provided J11 supports these ships form GWADAR and Karachi ports
China has a different role in world standing , and Pakistan has a defensive role over all.
China can build 12 carriers , and maintain them as it has a vast shore line and its in middle of many nations , while Pakistan has a small shore line , and so we can cover and defend our side with good round army of frigates, destroyers and submarines.
But it would be great to see 1 Chinese carrier always visiting Pakistani waters now and then
A Sea Harrier would never hover in a dog fight... It may use VIFF ... which if not used properly can have disastrous consequences
The Mirage has the advantage of speed and better performance at high altitude.
There were only 2 dogfights between Sea Harriers and Mirages during the Falklands war.
1) Sea Harriers intercepted two high flying Mirages over the Falklands...The Sea Harrier did not climb to engage their high flying adversaries.
The Mirages came down but were outperformed by the better training of the British Navy pilots.... one was Mirage was shot down... the other badly damaged (the damaged Mirage tried to land at the airfield on the Falklands but was shot down by friendly fire)
2) The second instance was a Dagger (Israeli copy of the Mirage V) engaging Sea Harriers... the pilot fired his (Shahfrir) missile well out of range at the Sea Harriers. The harriers were able to evade the missile and shoot the dagger down.
After that the Mirage 3 because lack of air refueling capability were not allowed to engage British fighters in dogfights and returned only a limited number of times to the Falkland Islands..... their primary task was to defend the Argentine mainland from Vulcan attacks.
The Dagger were used in only for anti ship role... many were shot down by the Sea Harriers who tailed them and shot them down