Do you think Pakistan as a nation underachieved to its true potential?

[d14gtc]

one thing amazes me about Pakistanis- In their initial years and upto the last decade, they clung on to the americans and looked to them for everything. I guess the initial phase was justified given the bipolarity of the world and it was obvious that they would go into the American camp since India had embraced the Soviets.

But Pakistanis, instead of learning from the americans and them inplementing those learnigns to develop their industry and education system, chose to remain subservient and dependant.

when America started making tough demands or when sanctions folowed, what did Pakistan do- instead of focussing on self sufficiency and economic development, simply sought out another support system in the name of China.

Today we see Pakistani members eulogising everything China does and achieves withiout realising that China is merely using them like the yanks did earlier. their fawning over china even blinds them to the extreme hatred that the average chinese has towards Muslims in China- yes that is true and I can say this with some degree of authority, having grown up in Singapore and having Chinese ancestry on my mother's side and family ties in mainland China.

Pakistanis have never even attempted to become self reliant and have looked at others to bail them out, without accepting the fact that there are no free lunches in this world- everyone works on their own vested interests and are simply using Pakistan. and your army and political leadership is in on this and enjoying the fruits at the expense of the populace. It is a sad state of affairs when the army is seen as the panacea for all ills in the country, when that same army has failed the country time and again and has only been self serving.

Alas, it may already bee too late for Pakistan. I know a lot many members here will flame me for this and make claims that we are a resilient bunch, history has always shown that we come out of messy situations etc. etc. but unless people recognise the reality, there is no hope for the populace.

gud post... but hope will be read without any derails.

 

[su-47]

one thing amazes me about Pakistanis- In their initial years and upto the last decade, they clung on to the americans and looked to them for everything. I guess the initial phase was justified given the bipolarity of the world and it was obvious that they would go into the American camp since India had embraced the Soviets.

But Pakistanis, instead of learning from the americans and them inplementing those learnigns to develop their industry and education system, chose to remain subservient and dependant.

when America started making tough demands or when sanctions folowed, what did Pakistan do- instead of focussing on self sufficiency and economic development, simply sought out another support system in the name of China.

Today we see Pakistani members eulogising everything China does and achieves withiout realising that China is merely using them like the yanks did earlier. their fawning over china even blinds them to the extreme hatred that the average chinese has towards Muslims in China- yes that is true and I can say this with some degree of authority, having grown up in Singapore and having Chinese ancestry on my mother's side and family ties in mainland China.

Pakistanis have never even attempted to become self reliant and have looked at others to bail them out, without accepting the fact that there are no free lunches in this world- everyone works on their own vested interests and are simply using Pakistan. and your army and political leadership is in on this and enjoying the fruits at the expense of the populace. It is a sad state of affairs when the army is seen as the panacea for all ills in the country, when that same army has failed the country time and again and has only been self serving.

Alas, it may already bee too late for Pakistan. I know a lot many members here will flame me for this and make claims that we are a resilient bunch, history has always shown that we come out of messy situations etc. etc. but unless people recognise the reality, there is no hope for the populace.

Excellent post

I have always been surprised how Pakistan was amongst the few US allies who didnt benefit from America's alliance. If you look at some others, like Japan, Singapore, South Korea and Turkey you will see that thy benefited vastly. Post world war 2 all these countries were in bad shape, and they joined the American camp during the cold war, like Pakistan.

But unlike Pak, they chose USA for US economic model, where Pakistan chose USA for military support. I honestly think Pakistan's current situation is a result of over-emphasis on military. Pakistan could have tried adopting and implementing a more american economic model when they were in the US camp, but only followed the american military model.

I think the biggest problem is Pakistan lacks long-term vision, and is mired in short-term objectives. And because of this, they let themselves be used. They let USA use them during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, without considering the fallout of such a venture. They used Taliban against Afghanistan, without realizing that Taliban were using them.

And even now, some Pakistanis seem to glorify China and relish in Chinese accomplishments. But instead of ever talking about replicating those successes back home, they mainly talk of how China is superior to India. Its as if they are not learning anything from their ally, but merely happy to have a 'big brother'.

I know som members would want to chew me out for this, but i honestly do believe most Paksitanis dont care as much for economy and education as they should have. Pakistan could have really benefited a lot from US camp during cold war had they been more focused on economic partnerships and economic victories than military ones.

On the other hand, you wont see Indians talking of USA beating China or hiding behind US skirts when we feel we don't measure up to China. our talk is always about improving ourselves and we use China and USA more as role models to inspire us.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

^^ Why is it that Indian's always post "introspective" threads on our forum, i am fed up so seeing this shyte. Seriously, how can a nation underachieve? If anything you have to examine the relationship of it's leadership and it's people... Don't judge a nation through mere stats or benchmarks a boffin conjured up.

Understand that you are dealing with emotion and pride when you post such matters on what is largely a National forum, what i find infuriating is hapless posts from members with broad sweeping generalisations such as:

Pakistanis have never even attempted to become self reliant and have looked at others to bail them out

Utter nonsense, there are 101 examples i can provide you of Pakistani Self Reliance:
One perfect example is this beautiful post form WebMaster:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/1802-spirit-self-reliance.html

Today we see Pakistani members eulogising everything China does and achieves withiout realising that China is merely using them like the yanks did earlier

Again i would just like point this out! What china does or doesn't do with Pakistan is an internal matter, needless to say they have been a stalwart ally in good times and bad, you will not find a single Pakistan who has ill words for China.

their fawning over china even blinds them to the extreme hatred that the average chinese has towards Muslims in China

Showing your true colours much? And BTW that is nonsense, i went to China in 2005 and again in 2008 and trust me the people in China love Pakistanis, they have a legitimate problem with people from Xianjiang, where Rabia is being funded by the US to destabilise the region... This is the same problem they face in Tibet... That is an internal matter, so no need to bring your propaganda into this discussion many thanks.

when America started making tough demands or when sanctions folowed, what did Pakistan do- instead of focussing on self sufficiency and economic development, simply sought out another support system in the name of China.

LOL, what can i say to that... Except laugh at your logic and flawed analysis.

and your army and political leadership is in on this and enjoying the fruits at the expense of the populace.

Another self labelled expert in Pakistani affairs are we? FYI: The army is the only thing stopping Mullah and Co from taking over Pakistan, so watch what you say.

Alas, it may already bee too late for Pakistan.

Hahahaha.... Your not the first one to say that my short-sighted friend.

I know a lot many members here will flame me

Well all i can say is, it is a mocked man who mocks the mocker!, you just highlighted your own TRUE intentions in this one statement alone.

and make claims that we are a resilient bunch

Even now you fools doubt our resolve... Show's how knowledgeable you are on Pakistan and it's people.

In closing your argument as with other Indians on this thread is highly flawed, how can you dictate or discuss matters when you have no clear understanding of the complex dynamic that inter-mesh within Pakistan.

Your post highlights your lack of knowledge in regards to Pakistan and i am surprised that people from INDIA feel they have a right to ask this question. This is not the first time some retard has posted crap like this and probably wont be the last.

So i will say this.... Pakistan was, is and always will remain a resilient nation, we may have fallen on hard times but we will continue to march forward in times of strife carrying our banner high.

 

[third eye]

^^ Why is it that Indian's always post "introspective" threads on our forum, i am fed up so seeing this shyte. Seriously, how can a nation underachieve? If anything you have to examine the relationship of it's leadership and it's people... Don't judge a nation through mere stats or benchmarks a boffin conjured up.

Understand that you are dealing with emotion and pride when you post such matters on what is largely a National forum, what i find infuriating is hapless posts from members with broad sweeping generalisations such as:



Utter nonsense, there are 101 examples i can provide you of Pakistani Self Reliance:
One perfect example is this beautiful post form WebMaster:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/1802-spirit-self-reliance.html



Again i would just like point this out! What china does or doesn't do with Pakistan is an internal matter, needless to say they have been a stalwart ally in good times and bad, you will not find a single Pakistan who has ill words for China.



Showing your true colours much? And BTW that is nonsense, i went to China in 2005 and again in 2008 and trust me the people in China love Pakistanis, they have a legitimate problem with people from Xianjiang, where Rabia is being funded by the US to destabilise the region... This is the same problem they face in Tibet... That is an internal matter, so no need to bring your propaganda into this discussion many thanks.



LOL, what can i say to that... Except laugh at your logic and flawed analysis.




Another self labelled expert in Pakistani affairs are we? FYI: The army is the only thing stopping Mullah and Co from taking over Pakistan, so watch what you say.


Hahahaha.... Your not the first one to say that my short-sighted friend.



Well all i can say is, it is a mocked man who mocks the mocker!, you just highlighted your own TRUE intentions in this one statement alone.


Even now you fools doubt our resolve... Show's how knowledgeable you are on Pakistan and it's people.

In closing your argument as with other Indians on this thread is highly flawed, how can you dictate or discuss matters when you have no clear understanding of the complex dynamic that inter-mesh within Pakistan.

Your post highlights your lack of knowledge in regards to Pakistan and i am surprised that people from INDIA feel they have a right to ask this question. This is not the first time some retard has posted crap like this and probably wont be the last.

So i will say this.... Pakistan was, is and always will remain a resilient nation, we may have fallen on hard times but we will continue to march forward in times of strife carrying our banner high.

The Gent whose post is being commented upon flies a UK & Singapore flag below his name. His public profile has no mention of India.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

^^ Was referring to SU47 too... Check the arrows before the start of my post indicating response to ^^(above post)

 

[Ghostwhowalks]

Why is it that Indian's always post "introspective" threads on our forum, i am fed up so seeing this shyte.

Although I have visited India a few times, I am not Indian either by nationality or by ethnicity. I am a mix of Chinese and Caucasian, born in Singapore, working presently in London (but soon returning to Singapore).

Showing your true colours much? And BTW that is nonsense, i went to China in 2005 and again in 2008 and trust me the people in China love Pakistanis, they have a legitimate problem with people from Xianjiang, where Rabia is being funded by the US to destabilise the region... This is the same problem they face in Tibet... That is an internal matter, so no need to bring your propaganda into this discussion many thanks.

No question of propoganda- Yest I know teh Xinjiang issue is nternal to china- did I ever say otherwise? but the fact remains that chinese do not like Muslims in general (actually, they do not like south asians as a whole). this is more apparent in mainland China which is a very homogeneous society, not so in places like HK and Singapore that are far more cosmopolitan.

Even now you fools doubt our resolve... Show's how knowledgeable you are on Pakistan and it's people.

In closing your argument as with other Indians on this thread is highly flawed, how can you dictate or discuss matters when you have no clear understanding of the complex dynamic that inter-mesh within Pakistan.

I hold a PhD in south Asian behvioural Economics- as part of my studies, I have done a very in-depth analysis of the psyche of South Asians. this forum is not the appropriate place to debate my knowledge, or lack thereof , of south Asian complexities, but I am happy to answer your questions on PM. Oh, and by the way, in case you accuse me of not doing a thorough job on mydoctoral thesis or getting it from a third rate institute, let me add that my PhD was awarded by the university of Cambridge.

Well all i can say is, it is a mocked man who mocks the mocker!, you just highlighted your own TRUE intentions in this one statement alone

I know you intended the highlihted part metaphorically, but it is not representative of my gender

 

[roach]

^^ Well put, GWW.
Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears.
Pakistanis are convinced that it's the Army, their Army, that is keeping the nation together- and they are right.
What they do not realize is that this same army has been systematically sabotaging their civilian governance for all these ears, and it is in this same army's benefit to stay all-powerful.

And, unfortunately, Pakistan ain't no Turkey.
So there.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Hi,

With pakistan---you get what you see. Pakistanis---my countrymen are living in an illusion that they have un-capped potentials---little they know that they are running at 110% of their abilities.

It is just an illusion ---a make belief---that pakistanis will become something---and there are hidden talents some where---. What you see of pakistan is what it is in real---and that is what you are going to get---.

If you cook lentils and rice---you will get 'Khichri'---so why would you expect a ' Pulao '---if you start with a recipe for pakora---why would you anticipate that you would get chicken fingers out of them.

It is so sad and tragic---I feel for the young men and women and kids and boys and girls of my country---sad I am---because nobody is telling them the truth that they are being led astray in the wrong direction by the incompetent people that they otherwise know as their fathers mothers grandfathers uncles---it pains me a lot when I see the whole of my nation being led in the direction of darkness---being led in a circle---chasing a dream round and round---an endless game.

The reader needs to understand---that you just cannot forget the past and start all over---your past holds the key to your future---your past is your history---your past is the key to your future----your past is your examination card---your past is your test report---your today is like the results that you get from the school for the previous year.

If your present is a total or comprehensive failure----then you have to understand that that is what you have earned and that is what you deserve for your effort that you put into your class ( that is your country ).

If---in your everyday life---you accept that what you put into it---that is what you are going to get out of it---and over and over---you keep getting the same result---which means that you are putting the same effort again and again---and again and again it leads to your failure----so what is the bottomline---. The bottomline is that you are giving it your best---that is all you got---to get you the results that you have---.

Please understand----there is no hidden talent anywhere---there is no miracle occuring anywhere---you know why---. Who do you know wants to be a failure all the time intentionally----who do you know that wants to be the known in the world as a loser all the time---which capable person wants to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over---IT IS WHAT IT IS---IT IS WHAT YOU SEE WHAT YOU GET.

I request the readers who disagree to tell me what they think that they are doing different that will change the future of pakistan.

dudes you are being harsh ... but to some extent rightly said .. but you know despite being continuously faced with multiple hardships , It takes nerves of steel and vigor determination to pull through all that and Alhumdolilah Pakistan is doing so and InshAllah will continue to in future too.. !!!!

 

[Masterchief]

Pakistan has much untapped potential, the country has been through toughest of the times, what Pakistan needs is a true visionary like Gandhi, chairman Mao, Jinnah and the country shall shine

 

[diva]

Pakistan has the greatest potential in the south asia owing to the location and size to population.

but at the same time pakistan as an entity and as a state has potential but pakistan as people have the problem owing ........... the list is big from politicians to religous probs

 

[thinkingcap81]

One needs to look at Pakistan in the South-Asian context. The whole region has underachieved.

Folks - tell me this - which country in this region is doing well except for maybe India? And since when has India been doing well or more appropriately 'relatively well'? A decade or so - yes??

Let us Indians not forget that it was not in the too distant past that we too were nothing much. Let us not get over arrogant through as yet citing puny achievments.

The current patronizing approach is an overkill. Yes India is widely regarded as an upcoming major power, but only upcoming and not an already arrived one like perhaps China.

Bottom line is this - if Pakistan continues to be what she is today then she does not deserve anything better. Time and tide wait for none.

 

[khanz]

pakistan been underachieving since 1947 we have so much resources and population we never had any good leaders to put is in the right direction also we are lazy and uneducated.Look at south korea and where they are today we used to be richer than them now they put us to shame if they can turn themselves into what they are today with nothing but education and hard work us so can we.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

I hold a PhD in south Asian behvioural Economics- as part of my studies, I have done a very in-depth analysis of the psyche of South Asians. this forum is not the appropriate place to debate my knowledge, or lack thereof , of south Asian complexities, but I am happy to answer your questions on PM.

Oh, and by the way, in case you accuse me of not doing a thorough job on mydoctoral thesis or getting it from a third rate institute, let me add that my PhD was awarded by the university of Cambridge.

psyche of South Asians.

How does that relate to the dynamics within a country?

LOL... So let me get this straight, you hold a PhD and that qualifies you to speak in the matters pertaining to Pakistan how? How many years have you studied the dynamics in Pakistan, how many years have you concentrated on research of Civil/Military coordination aspect of Pakistani governance, the role of feudal lords within the larger community and inter-faith strife?

Oh, and by the way, in case you accuse me of not doing a thorough job on mydoctoral thesis or getting it from a third rate institute, let me add that my PhD was awarded by the university of Cambridge.

Insecure much...

@ roach, if you don't like Pakistan or the people on this fourm... You know where the virtual door is...

 

[MastanKhan]

How does that relate to the dynamics within a country?

LOL... So let me get this straight, you hold a PhD and that qualifies you to speak in the matters pertaining to Pakistan how? How many years have you studied the dynamics in Pakistan, how many years have you concentrated on research of Civil/Military coordination aspect of Pakistani governance, the role of feudal lords within the larger community and inter-faith strife?



Insecure much...

@ roach, if you don't like Pakistan or the people on this fourm... You know where the virtual door is...

Hi,

Let us respect the man for his education---it is a Phd---it is a feather in the crown and that from cambridge---.

Listen and learn---these people are not pakistan's enemies---they are here talking about pakistan, because they are wellwishers of pakistan. If they cared less---why would they come here and take their time.

Who gives hoot about the co-ordination of army the politicians or the feudal lords----do outsider care about the SOB STORIES of pakistanis---.

They say---if you are somebody---if you claim that you have potential---then do something---it is your house----fix it---take charge---take ownership---make things happen----stop making excuses---show us how capable you are---do you have it in you---or it is just all talk.

There are no under achievers in pakistan---PAKISTAN IS BEING RUN AT ITS FULL POTENTIAL---this is what pakistan is---.

A man is the proud creation of The God---this creation does not under perform---that is a part and function of the design created by our Lord---regardless of who we are and where we are---we work to our fullest potential under the given circumstances---.

Where is the shame in admitting---we are what you see

 

[desiman]

Potential is useless until it is tapped. Pakistan’s most major problem is the utter lack of any real system. The rich and the powerful have the capability to override anything and anyone. The Army lives in its own world and the government seems almost helpless in the face of relentless corruption and internal disturbances. Again if you really need to study why Pakistan is that way it is today you need to go back to 1947.

Jinnah was a true visionary and you cannot deny that. He has drawn out many plans in regards to Pakistan but Pakistan’s biggest misfortune was his early death. He left a nation without any vision or visionary and then it was like a free cake for whoever to grab. It was only during the very short period of Jinnah when Pakistan saw stability in its governance and a prosperity in the geo-political sense. After his death, the country totally lost track and military coup’s one after the other wrecked the civilian infrastructure of the country, which is key in the success of any nation. The wars of 1965 and 71 again pushed the state back another 10 years. Forward to 1990 and you can put India and Pakistan almost at the same level. India faced a huge balance of payment crises and could have followed a path where it could have relied on external loans to ensure survival but the visionary thinking of Manmohan Singh saved India from disaster. Pakistan needs a person like him who can remodel its economy, governmental structures and limit the hold of the army over the country.

Pakistan has potential for more, but just as Mastan Khan said its already on the limits of its strength and any more stress on it could lead to a disaster. A nation is not identified by its potential but by its achievements. Sadly there is very little Pakistani’s can relate to in terms of the achievements of their nation. The youth is the key but sadly even they are being taken on the wrong path by many.