Do you think a political party is behind the striking young doctors?

[till death do us party]

The YDA are wrong in their stance nd their methods of strike. who is accountable for the lives lost nd the patients who suffered coz they were denied medical care? wat of their oath? so after doctors; teachers, accountants, engineers shud ask for a starting grade 18 too.

 

[Manticore]

@Antibody:

Just because you are a moderator, does it mean that you can give infractions to genuine posts and call them trolling?

@Everybody Else:

Can anyone please tell me who the Admins are for this section who control mods, I had a genuine post which was not only deleted but also infracted by a biased mod!

The post was ill informed -- go to actual doctors working in the field -- ask them what package they are getting , ask them how many of them are working for free in housejob and fcps training , ask them how many of the patients are treated from docters own pocket ,ask them their weekly service hours and compare them to magisterates or any other officer grade , a doctor can never be equalized to a b.a or even to an m.a degree for that matter -- forget the number of years , these general science group 's total study for ma degree syllabus incorporates less hours than a single year of mbbs --- even engineers have to study less - the testement to this is my own father who has a phd from csu and has taught mphil/phd in uet lahore in his free time -- he himself acknowleges that he aswell as the new students never have to study that much even in msc engineering -- you think only nalaiq docs are left in pak? i stood 2nd in lahore board , got admission in both nust and amc --- however a lot of people have family responsibilities barring them from going abroad -- a lot of people cant afford going abroad , pakistani students have visa problems and get late for interviews .. particularly after9/11 the situation of visa is so uncertain that many of my friends are stuck in pakistan and doing fcps as their visa got rejected , or they only got 1 yr visa etc.... so many problems that you just cant even fathom --- this *** gov has never helped students and young professionals in any of these problems

How can you hold more than half of these accountable when you dont pay them a dime? These docs who are working for free are the actual humanitarians who work silently and diligently while all of you guys can only post baseless and illinformed comment maligning the docs


Breaking the legs , incriminating them in false murder cases etc is no joke .. and only after that , did they stop doing job in partially operated ER

These docs went to the politicians -- the c.minister didnt meet them once , they used to come back after sitting on the foot path next to his office for hours... then the court ordered to make their service structure -- after that again a year has passed without any tangible action -- this time when they tried to go to cm , the police said that they wd break their legs if they protested infront of the cm house ---- thus no choice left but to go on strike just like lawyers

The PMDC laws Health Code says that 302 cant be put on any doctor unless the request comes from Health dept

I am not a member of yda -- rather i keep out of their way .. my departement doesnt have er -- however we as doctors have to show the actual picture -- and if people dont see it ... you can do whatever you want ---

The army docs cant take up the sheer onslaught of patients in opd forget about er and indoors-- btw these patients also steal your mobiles and lady purses

I initially told you to stop this ranting -- youve turned a blind eye to the simple demands of docs --- simple question , have you worked for free for years?? if not , dont bother posting here again

 

[KRAIT]

@Antibody
Same is the situation in India but there are less protest because of the competitiveness, govt. can fire them and recruit others.

The gruesome training, reading for minimum 12-15 hours, late night shifts, research and practice, low income....that's what all doctor go through initially. Sometimes it breaks down the spine of these doctors that only possible solution is to go on strike.

Government policies and indifference attitude make things worse

 

[Doctor09]

The post was ill informed -- go to actual doctors working in the field -- ask them what package they are getting , ask them how many of them are working for free in housejob and fcps training , ask them how many of the patients are treated from docters own pocket , a doctor can never be equalized to a b.a or even to an m.a degree for that matter -- forget the number of years , these general science group 's total study for ma degree syllabus incorporates less hours than a single year of mbbs --- even engineers have to study less - the testement to this is my own father who has a phd from csu and has taught mphil/phd in uet lahore -- he himself acknowleges that he aswell as the new students never have to study that much even in msc engineering -- you think only nalaiq docs are left in pak? i stood 2nd in lahore board , got admission in both nust and amc --- however a lot of people have family responsibilities barring them from going abroad -- a lot of people cant afford goinf abrad , pakistani students have visa problems and get late for interviews .. particularly after9/11 the situation of visa is so uncertain that many of my friends are stuck in pakistan and doing fcps as their visa got rejected , or they only got 1 yr visa etc.... so many problems that you just cant even fathom

How can you hold more than half of these accountable when you dont pay them a dime?Breaking the legs , incriminating them in false murder cases etc is no joke .. and only after that , did they stop doing job in partially operated ER

I initially told you to stop this ranting -- youve turned a blind eye to the simple demands of docs --- simple question , have you worked for free for years?? if not , dont bother posting here again

we cant force them to see the reality if they dont want to see by themselves .
My professor of dermatology worked for whole year without getting s single rupee after his FCPS ( in 2001) but people dont want to see the real picture of the whole situation they only know to criticize doctors they will never ever appreciate the good work of doctor as it hurts their egos .
they only repaeat KHIDMAT mantra again and again but if they are so much concerned about humanity why dont they come in govt hospitals and take patients to private hospital so that they get better treatment , by this they serve the humanity but they dont come they are keyboard humanitarians who only know how to talk but cant do anything practical .

 

[KRAIT]

we cant force them to see the reality if they dont want to see by themselves .
My professor of dermatology worked for whole year without getting s single rupee after his FCPS ( in 2001) but people dont want to see the real picture of the whole situation they only know to criticize doctors they will never ever appreciate the good work of doctor as it hurts their egos .
they only repaeat KHIDMAT mantra again and again but if they are so much concerned about humanity why dont they come in govt hospitals and take patients to private hospital so that they get better treatment , by this they serve the humanity but they dont come they are keyboard humanitarians who only know how to talk but cant do anything practical .

You are quite right.....no one knows how much doctors go through, mentally , physically and they work in environment that could harm their own body.

These doctors also have wife and children to talk care of. He is juggling his personal lief and professional among all the profession in the world.Low income put a last nail in the coffin.

Instead of buying military toy or reducing their number and invest in health care will eventually pay off. More fit the working population, more productive and innovative they are.

 

[Doctor09]

You are quite right.....no one knows how much doctors go through, mentally , physically and they work in environment that could harm their own body.

These doctors also have wife and children to talk care of. He is juggling his personal lief and professional among all the profession in the world.Low income put a last nail in the coffin.

Instead of buying military toy or reducing their number and invest in health care will eventually pay off. More fit the working population, more productive and innovative they are.

We have blood donating societies in our medical colleges and whenever patients need blood we donate our own blood for them but no one care about that , we treat thousand and thousands patients on daily basis and save thousands of lives but when someone dies even without our fault they blame us even they beat us , are not we doctors are human beings ? even we dont have any security and protection in hospitals ,
when someone dies in hospital media start blaming doctors with knowing any fact and police FIR is being filed against doctors but when any doctors dies because hospital acquired infection or any infection from patient why they dont file a case against patients .

 

[Manticore]

only terminaly ill / non compliant people come to teriary care hospitals -- thus the prevelance of such people is most in hospitals , than in all other parts of the city---- this naturally means that the incidence of death would be more in hospitals as compared to say , residentail areas of a city ----- so its ridiculous to say that today 100 people died in a hospital , death happens every day in the hospital

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...unjab-police-raid-arrest-young-doctors-4.html


in the plastic sergery unit , where i was doing fellowship , we had 1 paid pg seat , 1 sr seat , one assist.prof and 1 assoc prof seat ---- and they were required to do 3 opd and 3 ot days per week as well as there evening followup and morning ward rounds --[10 cases/ot day] ------- if it wasnt for the 20 pg trainees doing work for free , no mai ka lal couldve done this unprecedented work load

do you know , a person can get tb from respiratory droplets from a tb patient if the doc breathes in a 14 feet radius around the patient? docs are continously exposed to tb , hepatitis , radiation etc and they dont have a service structure which cushions the treatement costs of these health hazards


i was reading in the other thread if docs in pak invented anything like chips -- has anyone invented the human body? do you know 90% of the first line and 75% of the second line drugs for the 50 most prevelant and deadly diseases are not present in pakistan -- atleast not in gov settings , thanks to the gov--- the ways these docs have invented different drug combinations by using some drug's side effects with another drug's direct effects to yield a treatement for all these cases is extremely impressive to saythe least

however in some cases the problem is so terminal , as most patients come to teriary hospitals only when they are terminal --- these desi combinations cant save the life of that patient--- docs pay for the international drugs themselve --- if they inform the patient to buy the drug [ which is their duty to tell the patient of the ground reality ] , these illiterate patients instead of buying the drug , go to the media and say docs have stopped treating them -- and this is the headline you get on tv


it is the duty of the gov to provide first line medicines and appropriate number of docter seats [plus their pay + perks] based on service hours and study years ----- docters and drugs cant walk to the patients on there own , without any meaningfull financial input by the gov ------- the health budget is less than 2% for f** sake , what do you expect?



the longer the demands are not met , the greater the use of force ---- gradually it would increase the strength of yda and relactant / neutral docters would see no other way to safegaurd their future but to join this revolution so as to get a combined service structure and proper promotion and induction keeping in view their 18 years study background and extremely high job hours employed --- just like when power was given to media and lawyers -- you saw chaos after some time so much so that musharaff had to leave


docters are one of the most intelligent and wise people of pakistan --- most of them will never follow a politically motivated struggle -- the reason why they have joined in the struggle is out there to see for all , granted you are not narrow minded or only think news channels honestly air docters' side of the story


The end