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Do you think a political party is behind the striking young doctors?

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Bullet?

What about needle pricks with deadly infections such as HIV, Hep B and C... and respiratory droplets with TB?

Try doing that with zero medical coverage (health insurance) - you need real guts to walk into a ward with that.

So yeah, the doctor does take bullets on a regular basis.



Rule of 3... with every needle stick injury, there is roughly a ...

0.3% chance of getting AIDS
3% chance of betting Hep C
33% chance of getting Hep B

In Pakistanis, needles are used again and again, so infection rate goes higher.


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Ummmm - batmannow, now do you want to really troll in the middle of this?:angry:
very well said but these ignorant people cant digest the reality , they only want to argue without any logic .
 
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Needle business is performed by nursing staff!! ;)
everything is done by nursing staff ( doctors go there to play cards ) , even they do surgical procedures (doctors are selling naan chollaaas ) , and even air droplet infections dont harm doctors they only effects nursing staff ( doctors have relations with microorganisms ) . Hept B and C dont harm doctors (doctors are aliens ) . sometime doctors have to give mouth to mouth breathing to patients ( but no no how come doctor get infected , no way ).
I cant argue with you on simple basic things . i advice you to meet few doctors and ask them about these things . I personally know 2 doctors who died of infection acquired by their patients
But mr . it us who accept and treat patient when his own relatives left him to die , its us who help socially rejected psychiatric patients , its us who go to our patients and treat them when their own family members dont come near to him because of his foul smelling wounds .
 
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I don't know nooners, kaffars, insaffers, peoplers or any xyz party is doing good, they all are scoring points by maligning other. what all I know is poor people are dying without treatment despite availability of hospitals and doctors those are run and paid by the direct and indirect taxes paid by the same poor. What a shame:frown:

Prime responsibility lies with the government to take care of the public who elected them into power for good governance... if crackdown on doctors is your definition of good governance then may we all never agree.

where on earth it happens that u close outdoors on strike and government starts crack down on doctors? It is a shame for all of us who elected such people, who cannot even negotiate with young doctors...

If they left the country like everyone else, the same poor will be left at mercy of Kazakhstani and chinese doctors...
 
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Prime responsibility lies with the government to take care of the public who elected them into power for good governance... if crackdown on doctors is your definition of good governance then may we all never agree.

2008-2009 - Doctors’ strike defaming sacred profession: Punjab Health Ministry
2010 - Doctors strike, patients suffer
2011 - Doctors’ strike: 22 patients die across Punjab
And Now - Two more die as YDA strike continues

Still this Genius guy want government to go on negotiation with these murders.

Sorry to say, I don't see any difference between TTP taliban and these doctors. Both attack poor public & throwing all responsibility on Pakistan Government.
 
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2008-2009 - Doctors’ strike defaming sacred profession: Punjab Health Ministry
2010 - Doctors strike, patients suffer
2011 - Doctors’ strike: 22 patients die across Punjab
And Now - Two more die as YDA strike continues

Still this Genius guy want government to go on negotiation with these murders.

Sorry to say, I don't see any difference between TTP taliban and these doctors. Both attack poor public & throwing all responsibility on Pakistan Government.

It is quite unfortunate that for 4 years the promised demands have not been met by the government- it is even further unfortunate that people donot realize the culprit and prime suspect in this- which is shahbaz sharif and his advisers.
 
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It is quite unfortunate that for 4 years the promised demands have not been met by the government- it is even further unfortunate that people donot realize the culprit and prime suspect in this- which is shahbaz sharif and his advisers.

your as usual lies don't need any refute from me..

@Topic
Now I am sure the only person behind all this is IK, and his PTI. & this confirms how low this Guy can go just to get the power..


2008-2009 - Doctors’ strike defaming sacred profession: Punjab Health Ministry
2010 - Doctors strike, patients suffer
2011 - Doctors’ strike: 22 patients die across Punjab
And Now - Two more die as YDA strike continues
 
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I don't think political party is behind this.
Some doctors are more concerned with money or prefers personal benefits neglecting the pain and suffering of patient.
 
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your as usual lies don't need any refute from me..

@Topic
Now I am sure the only person behind all this is IK, and his PTI. & this confirms how low this Guy can go just to get the power..


2008-2009 - Doctors’ strike defaming sacred profession: Punjab Health Ministry
2010 - Doctors strike, patients suffer
2011 - Doctors’ strike: 22 patients die across Punjab
And Now - Two more die as YDA strike continues

and it is even more unfortunate for you and your kind that you have to call others a "liar", just to prove your wrong position !! Sigh !
 
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How do you expect the Government to meet insane demands? They want a service structure where:

1) Doctors are hired in Grade-18 instead of Grade-17 like all other educated professionals.
2) Doctors are paid a professional allowance equal to the basic salary, that means 2x the basic salary + merit increments + ah-hoc allowances + benefits etc.
3) Doctors are paid regular salary of Grade-18 while they go through house job (hands on) training.

How can anyone in his/her right mind expect the Government to accept these unreasonable and unjustified demands? And all those who are defending the doctors, can any single one of them answer this question: "Why don't these doctors quit these Government jobs and work in private hospitals"???

Pehle Government job ke liye mar rahe hote hain aur ab najayez demands ke liye awaam ko maar rahe hain! Most of you defending the doctors don't really have a conscience. I wonder how you would feel if some close relative of yours is denied any medical treatment!



Ironically, fact is that if any single one of these YD's had the slightest of chances to go abroad, he/she would have done that already. It is a fact that most of these are those who could not qualify for a place in private sector let alone be accepted abroad!

we have discussed most of the issues- the salary thing is proven to be a lie by the government- what else can be more ridiculous than this ???

As for grade 18 is concern- its not something unreasonable- lecturers now a days are inducted in grade 18, usually these doctors end up in grade 18 or in rare cases grade 19... imagine at the end of your career you are still OG3 or a management clerk or a assistant ?

and your second part of the post maybe true upto some extend had these doctors been from China or Kazakhstan but the fact of the matter is not everyone is interested in leaving the country- job security is one of the main features of the government jobs- I would prefer it at any given day over lucrative jobs in Middle East. though I think these doctors should leave the country- only to return when a credible and maa kay jese government is in place- had it been done by Musharraf the whole media would have cursed him to death, but the cover of democracy is too good to be true for criminals and tyrants like Shahbaz Sharif.

So I think that point is also not probable !
 
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Guys, (we?) you are continuing to prove each other wrong here. Actually this issue about the economy and the governance. If the goverment had the money, I think they would have given by now. There is almost no money for anything not planned previous in budgets. They have been cutting development budgets as well in get money for bs programs like Laptop, Taxi, Sasti Rooti, all intended to make people look beggers infront of these politicians. So where does come from giving permanent jobs to Drs and regulating their pay scales? This not just the case in Punjab, it is all provincial and federal govt in Pakistan.

Almost every department is dying. Look at Railway, they have been protesting to get not increments, but salaries. Many trains have been closed. HEC Scholerships have stopped. Bigger defence projects are on hold. Electricity prodution is in huge shortage despite large generation capacity. There are some people who protest on their problems, others dont. But that doesnt mean that the silents are living a compfortable life or very happy.

In the last few years there have been hyper-inflation in the country due to goverment printing notes to pay the bills. Every employee be goverment, private in one or other department deserves to be given better salary to offset the inflation. This will not happen until right people run the goverment. This right people are atleast not these tried, tested and failed dynastic political parties. Period!
 
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The issue of the young doctor’s strike is the latest in the string of crises that seem to hit the health system in Punjab with worrying regularity.

This time there is a three-way tie between the government, the young doctors and the poor patients. While the patients retain their unchanging position as the hapless victims, the villain this time, in a change from established pattern, is not the government but the doctors, who are being painted by the government and the media as greedy and cold-blooded. Messiahs turned killers.

At the risk of being on the wrong side of popular opinion, I would like to speak up for the young doctors. Better still, let me try and not take sides at all but instead look dispassionately and objectively at the issue.

Some facts: Punjab currently has no written health policy document. The Punjab government spends around 0.5 percent of its GDP on health, which is very low considering that the average expenditure for all low- and middle-income countries is roughly two percent of GDP. The government lacks the capacity to even spend the budget that is allocated.

For the past two years, the actual expenditure has been less than 75 percent of the budgeted amount. Moreover despite the fact that big hospitals and specialised services get the bulk of the resources, the crises repeatedly hit the big cities. It should also be noted that only 20 percent of health care is provided by the government, while the rest is provided by the private sector, yet the quality of care at government hospitals has progressively deteriorated.

The demand for a service structure for health professionals is totally legitimate and one that is long-standing. Radical restructuring of the health system is required and not cosmetic gestures. Instead the health system is in a shambles and all we get are attractive slogans of mobile health units, free dialysis, air-conditioning in major hospitals (though how that is working without electricity is another question), free parking etc.

Our health indicators are amongst the worst in the world and falling. Pakistan may soon be the only country in the world that still has polio, and yes the virus has been detected in Lahore as well. So clearly the government is failing in its constitutional role of providing health care to all its citizens.

What about the doctors? With the decline of the rest of the society, the standard of medical education and ethics has deteriorated as well. As the public health system has collapsed, the private sector has begun to mushroom, and it has grown unregulated, exponentially and at the cost of the public sector almost like a parasite.

Health has become a business and a very lucrative one at that. Senior government doctors have all got roaring private practices where they fleece the patients without mercy. Labs and the pharmaceutical industry are all part of an exploitative netwrok. Those who cannot become or choose not to become part of the racket, leave. Doctors are leaving Pakistan literally in droves.

But the young doctors are a different breed. In a country severely lacking in heroes, if I had to vote for someone, it would be the young doctors. The only reason the government health sector is limping along is because of these foot soldiers of the medical profession.

The brightest of the students, with the highest merit opt for this field. Still young and idealistic, they go through one of the most tough and demanding academic course, at the end of which, and unlike other professions, they find themselves at the bottom-most rung of a long ad difficult career.

They look forward to progressively harder exams not to mention extremely long and punishing hours of duty, a duty which is not just physically and mentally rigorous but emotionally taxing as well because they have to deal continuously with sickness, misery and pain.

They are the ones who choose to stay and serve. They are the ones on duty when the senior doctors are at their private clinics.

They are the ones who are holding hands, taking histories, helping from their own pockets, staying up all night, even singing lullabies to babies in the nurseries (I know because I’ve seen it). They are the ones running from pillar to post arranging blood, medicines, referrals, ambulances when their patients can’t afford them.

As for the patients not being attended to, I can bet anything that even without a strike, if the media were to go to any public hospital, they would find patients complaining of absent doctors, bad attitudes, unavailability of medicines, long queues and hospital lower staff asking for bribe for the simplest of things.

The media should not fall for the cheap tactic of feeding on misery and creating a false impression. The poor patient in Pakistan is suffering, at the hands of poverty, loadshedding, illiteracy, lack of transport, high prices of drugs, poor sanitation systems, unregulated private health care and so much else.

Let’s not put all the blame on young doctors just because it provides an issue to raise ratings or it is politically expedient. I would urge some basic research and objectivity.

Out-patient departments are for walk-in patients. Any able administrator should be able to juggle senior doctor’s schedules and cover OPDs. Emergencies and wards are still working and the young doctors are continuing to do their duties where lives are endangered. There would be no crisis if the government could learn to manage...anything.

You cannot call doctors messiahs, and treat them like criminals – raiding their hostels and arresting them. You have to treat them with the dignity and respect that their title deserves before expecting them to behave like messiahs.


In defence of young doctors - Dr Narmeen A Hamid
 
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@Antibody:

Just because you are a moderator, does it mean that you can give infractions to genuine posts and call them trolling?

@Everybody Else:

Can anyone please tell me who the Admins are for this section who control mods, I had a genuine post which was not only deleted but also infracted by a biased mod!
 
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