Do Vietnam have these Ship ?

[Place Of Space]

Absolutely. And they organized an honorable fight against the French colonial forces, despite the results. Even if they have no power today, modern day Vietnamese should learn understand the role they played in forming the modern Vietnamese Nation and State and in securing that identity.

About this period of history, all Asian countries should learn from Japan and learn deeply the reason why Japan succeed in the reform since 1860's.

 

[dichoi]

This document with signature of Emperor Bảo Đại about sovereignity of Vietnam to Hoàng Sa (Paracels) Islands of Vietnam. in February 1939.

 

[Place Of Space]

This document with signature of Emperor Bảo Đại about sovereignity of Vietnam to Hoàng Sa (Paracels) Islands of Vietnam. in February 1939.

Man, that's your internal agreement. Referring to international territory disputes, it had no legal effect.

 

[Aepsilons]

About this period of history, all Asian countries should learn from Japan and learn deeply the reason why Japan succeed in the reform since 1860's.

Indeed. It was during this time : 17th century to late 19th century that is known as the great shame for Asia.

One must learn the lessons in never allowing oneself to be weak.

 

[Place Of Space]

About this period of history, all Asian countries should learn from Japan and learn deeply the reason why Japan succeed in the reform since 1860's.

As to me, what I learned from the history is that I won't support any minority ethnic lead the country as govt again. We would like to give equal rights to all minority ethic, but they can't lead the country. Manchurian Qing emperor failed the reform mainly because they had to protect the Manchurian privilege. In fact, since 1840's, a large number of Han officials and elites preferred to reform, but all were limited or suppressed by Manchurian nobility.

 

[dichoi]

Absolutely. And they organized an honorable fight against the French colonial forces, despite the results. Even if they have no power today, modern day Vietnamese should learn understand the role they played in forming the modern Vietnamese Nation and State and in securing that identity.

Yes, Vietnamese has been fought against France Colonial Army from 1958 to 1983 in 35 year,until when Hanoi Citadel was failed. In this time Vietnamese population was around over 10 million people. we was very weak under rule of useless corrupt confucian state officials, they were maiority in Kingdom Court..

 

[Aepsilons]

As to me, what I learned from the history is that I won't support any minority ethnic lead the country as govt again. We would like to give equal rights to all minority ethic, but they can't lead the country. Manchurian Qing emperor failed the reform mainly because they had to protect the Manchurian privilege. In fact, since 1840's, a large number of Han officials and elites preferred to reform, but all were limited or suppressed by Manchurian nobility.

I agree. Tho I will say that one of the last great Qing Emperors to hold on to the reigns of power was His Imperial Majesty the Qianlong Emperor. He was not only pro-modernity (as in the use of modern warfare), but he had tried to develop ties with Western Powers. Alas he died and his successors did not carry on his reform agendas. Had China done that, there is without a doubt the Qing Dynasty may have survived to the current epoch, who knows, WWII may not even have happened in Asia.

Yes, Vietnamese has been fought against France Colonial Army from 1958 to 1983 in 35 year,until when Hanoi Citadel was failed. In this time Vietnamese population was around over 10 million people. we was very weak under rule of useless corrupt confucian state officials, they were maiority in Kingdom Court..

Interesting enough the Vietnamese Empire had close relations with the Qing Empire.

Comprehensive cooperation was noted between both Empires.

 

[dichoi]

Man, that's your internal agreement. Referring to international territory disputes, it had no legal effect.

you are wrong.

Base on Agreement Viet-Phap 1883. Anam Empirer is existed. Paracel and Spratly is under rule of Nguyen Dynasty in Hue. Its rules of international laws.

 

[Aepsilons]

you are wrong.

Base on Agreement Viet-Phap 1883. Anam Empirer is existed. Paracel and Spratly is under rule of Nguyen Dynasty in Hue. Its rules of international laws.

That may be true. However, after the retreat of France from Indochina, all the territorial land claims are subject to interpretation.

And this is the reason why there is so much animosity-related confusion as to the legal rights and claims of these islands.

Prior to WWII, France administered the Paracel Islands, and in 1939, Japan conquered the islands from France. But after Japan's surrender in 1945, the islands were left alone after Japanese soldiers abandoned the islands. That is where the confusion is coming from.

The Chinese claim that after Japan's surrender, those islands were now under Chinese control, and since the French didn't really try to rehabilitate the islands or formally opposed the Chinese claim, that confusion persists to the present.

The only way to resolve this is for China and Vietnam to have a co-existent agreement.

 

[dichoi]

Interesting enough the Vietnamese Empire had close relations with the Qing Empire.

Comprehensive cooperation was noted between both Empires.

When China making propaganda about effecting of Confucus in Vietnam, Vietnamese people don't like it. BCZ the Confucian in both China (Qing Dynasty) and Vietnam (Nguyen Dyasty) were useless for develop the country in modern time.

regretfully,it was repeated with Karl Marx idea.

 

[Aepsilons]

When China making propaganda about effecting of Confucus in Vietnam, Vietnamese people don't like it. BCZ the Confucian in both China (Qing Dynasty) and Vietnam (Nguyen Dyasty) were useless for develop the country in modern time.

regretfully,it was repeated with Karl Marx idea.

I understand that and i empathize with you. There are a lot of good Chinese posters here who have a very robust and open mind, and there are others who are very reactive, same for Vietnamese posters here as well.

I think its just best to take into mind the way we talk to each other. Calling each other 'chimpos, monkeys, jungle folks, jungle monkeys, thieves, thief et al ' and that kind of destructive and prejudicial talk is not going to build a healthy rapport between Chinese and Vietnamese members.

The way people talk to each other is key. Be an open hand, not a clenched fist, as i always say.



Regards,
@Nihonjin1051

 

[Genesis]

I agree. Tho I will say that one of the last great Qing Emperors to hold on to the reigns of power was His Imperial Majesty the Qianlong Emperor. He was not only pro-modernity (as in the use of modern warfare), but he had tried to develop ties with Western Powers. Alas he died and his successors did not carry on his reform agendas. Had China done that, there is without a doubt the Qing Dynasty may have survived to the current epoch, who knows, WWII may not even have happened in Asia.

Qianlong is not a good emperor, his father left him with a reformed country, vast amount of money, and a strong army.

Qianlong was extravagant, conservative, and not that good at politics. He let HeShen completely destroy the political system where he systematically eliminated opposition and gained political favors and wealth.

Qianlong supported ill conceived wars and buildings of expensive palaces.

He didn't trade with the West and he didn't adopt any new technology.

When he died, he left his son the exact opposite of what his father left him, a depleted treasury, a corrupt and defeated army, a country so corrupt that HeShen was a country all by himself.

That may be true. However, after the retreat of France from Indochina, all the territorial land claims are subject to interpretation.

And this is the reason why there is so much animosity-related confusion as to the legal rights and claims of these islands.

Prior to WWII, France administered the Paracel Islands, and in 1939, Japan conquered the islands from France. But after Japan's surrender in 1945, the islands were left alone after Japanese soldiers abandoned the islands. That is where the confusion is coming from.

The Chinese claim that after Japan's surrender, those islands were now under Chinese control, and since the French didn't really try to rehabilitate the islands or formally opposed the Chinese claim, that confusion persists to the present.

The only way to resolve this is for China and Vietnam to have a co-existent agreement.

What you say is true, confusion is what let to these disputes, but I disagree about how it will be resolved.

I have complete confidence of china's rise, I'm and I'm sure others are willing to wait it out, as we are sure of absolute victory in the end.

Vietnam can do the same, if they feel they can be Japan before we become the US.

 

[Place Of Space]

That may be true. However, after the retreat of France from Indochina, all the territorial land claims are subject to interpretation.

And this is the reason why there is so much animosity-related confusion as to the legal rights and claims of these islands.

Prior to WWII, France administered the Paracel Islands, and in 1939, Japan conquered the islands from France. But after Japan's surrender in 1945, the islands were left alone after Japanese soldiers abandoned the islands. That is where the confusion is coming from.

The Chinese claim that after Japan's surrender, those islands were now under Chinese control, and since the French didn't really try to rehabilitate the islands or formally opposed the Chinese claim, that confusion persists to the present.

The only way to resolve this is for China and Vietnam to have a co-existent agreement.

The outside observers really are clear of the things. That's it.

 

[Aepsilons]

Qianlong is not a good emperor, his father left him with a reformed country, vast amount of money, and a strong army.

Qianlong was extravagant, conservative, and not that good at politics. He let HeShen completely destroy the political system where he systematically eliminated opposition and gained political favors and wealth.

Qianlong supported ill conceived wars and buildings of expensive palaces.

He didn't trade with the West and he didn't adopt any new technology.

When he died, he left his son the exact opposite of what his father left him, a depleted treasury, a corrupt and defeated army, a country so corrupt that HeShen was a country all by himself.

Qianlong is not a good emperor, his father left him with a reformed country, vast amount of money, and a strong army.

Qianlong was extravagant, conservative, and not that good at politics. He let HeShen completely destroy the political system where he systematically eliminated opposition and gained political favors and wealth.

Qianlong supported ill conceived wars and buildings of expensive palaces.

He didn't trade with the West and he didn't adopt any new technology.

When he died, he left his son the exact opposite of what his father left him, a depleted treasury, a corrupt and defeated army, a country so corrupt that HeShen was a country all by himself.

History is far more complex than that. H.I.M the great Qianlong , afterall, ruled an empire that composed almost 33% of the world's GDP. Untold gold and silver , a bustling and massive market. And as the sole ruler of such a vast empire, he had to conduct wars in order to secure the Empire's silk roads to the west, send armies to Burma to maintain its defense treaty with Siam, an effort to keep stability in her frontier.

I admire Qianlong the Great. The man had balls.

In 1793 AD, a fateful event in Chinese history took place in the Forbidden City. The great emperor Qianlong reluctantly received the visiting Lord Earl Macartney representing King George III of the then emerging British Empire. Lord Macartney presented a seemingly simple idea: Let us trade. To that, Emperor Qianlong replied, and I quote:

"Our dynasty's majestic virtue has penetrated unto every country under Heaven, and kings of all nations have offered their costly tribute by land and sea. Swaying the wide world, I have but one aim in view, namely, to maintain a perfect governance. Strange objects do not interest me."

 

[dichoi]

Prior to WWII, France administered the Paracel Islands, and in 1939, Japan conquered the islands from France. But after Japan's surrender in 1945, the islands were left alone after Japanese soldiers abandoned the islands. That is where the confusion is coming from.

The Chinese claim that after Japan's surrender, those islands were now under Chinese control, and since the French didn't really try to rehabilitate the islands or formally opposed the Chinese claim, that confusion persists to the present.

The Nguyen Warlord from Hue (former of Nguyen Dynasty) has been controlled Islands from 17 th century with Flotta Hoang Sa Truong sa. We didn't have troubles with China in the past

Any occupation with force of Japan in WW II or China after 1956 after Geneva accords 1954 is illegal.
The true owner of this Island is Vietnamese, historically.