Do Eastern Europeans know they're vulnerable without the EU?

[flamer84]

I wish her all the best. Serbia is devasteted by Djokovic fail, he is out of top 3. This catastrophy is on the same level with floods three years ago.

He's getting old dude, he won alot in his time,if Federer slipped I guess no one can stay on top forever.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Lately, I have noticed some eastern European countries and the people are becoming more vocal about pushing European nationalism and criticize EU because of the way EU treat them recently. They want European countries to become more nationalistic and leave the EU so they could control the borders and curb the flow of immigration.

So, it got me into thinking how come eastern European countries don't hold any grudge against the Anglo-Saxon and Central European countries when historically, they have treated the Slavic people like animals? It's like they almost forgot about the past and how they were treated by the three powers (Western and Central powers and Russia). Take some Asian countries for example. The east Asians never forgive what the Japanese did to them, they still hold grudge and never trust them.

The Slavs have been occupied by multiple powers and there were almost no difference between these three powers when it comes marginalizing and subjugating the Slavic population. Out of all Europe, they have suffered the most casualties from the two of the most destructive world wars and it was not even soldiers but the whole population who were systematically oppressed because they were viewed inferior in the eyes of the three powers.

Whereas, when some of the Western and Central countries who were occupied by the certain powers like the Nazis or the British empire were treated much better and were viewed as a normal class citizen. There were much less casualties on the other side compared to eastern Europe.

The British and their Western allies didn't do anything when the Slavic countries were being swallowed by the Axis Powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary and their allies) and wiping 60% of the population or later the Nazis. They stood behind and watch Europe go into flames and only entered the war later for their own interest. Even till this day, they're often looked down.

Yet, eastern European countries are still on the forefront of pushing European nationalism. It's like saying African countries wanting to go back to the days of European colonialism because the moment the West goes back to the way they used to be then eastern Europe is gonna have a hard time. The Polish discrimination after Brexit is just some example that resentment against Slavs is still alive.

There is a reason why Putin wants to see this happen again (hence all the anti-EU far rights are supported by him). So, Europe is the most peaceful and stable region on this planet in part because of the European Union and there have been no wars or death inside EU jurisdiction.

You can come up with any warped theory when You lack knowledge of History.
Western Europe for starters had very little to do with the Slavic countries.
They were part of East Rome, then they came under the influence if the Ottomans
and/or the Holy Roman Empire/Austria-Hungary.
First real influence by Western Europe is when Napoleon reinstates Poland.
As winners of WW1, Western Europe allowed a lot of the Eastern European countries
to be created.
While Western Europe backed down on Austria/Czech, France-Great Britain went to war over Poland.
When the Axis invaded the Balkans, much of the British forces in North Africa
was sent to Crete to support the Greeks.
Churchill wanted to liberate the Balkans after Italy, but was overruled.
Start reading up on WW2 before displaying Your lack of knowledge.

 

[Baybars Han]

Crimea has absolutely nothing to do with it. Crimea is almost 100% pro-Russian region, historically owned by Russia. Eastern Europe is an entirely different matter.
I'm talking about the fact that, perhaps, the EU and even NATO expect some changes in the coming decades. And the states of Eastern Europe, in the situation of cultural expansion of alien elements from other regions of the world, will need to look for a strong ally that can ensure their safety.
Who can ensure the security or even survival of Eastern Europe in the world of the future? Russia and only Russia.

Crimea was not historically owned by Russia, what are you talking about. Prove to me in medieval times before the Khazar Khanates, Golden Hordes, Crimean Tatars that it was run by slavs, you cant. It was only russian for like 300 years.

 

[vostok]

Crimea was not historically owned by Russia, what are you talking about. Prove to me in medieval times before the Khazar Khanates, Golden Hordes, Crimean Tatars that it was run by slavs, you cant. It was only russian for like 300 years.

In fact, less than 300 years. But it is enough to be called historical - the whole history of the US lasts less.
But. Eastern part of Crimea was part of Russian Tmutarakan Principality (green) in 10-12 ct.

Although the exact date and circumstances of Tmutarakan's takeover by Kievan Rus are uncertain, the Hypatian Codex mentions Tmutarakan as one of the towns that Vladimir the Great gave to his sons, which implies that Rus control over the city was established in the late 10th century and certainly before Vladimir's death in 1015.[7] Bronze and silver imitations of Byzantine coinage were struck by the new rulers during this period.[8]

Vladimir's son Mstislav of Chernigov was the prince of Tmutarakan at the start of the 11th century. During his reign, a first stone church was dedicated to the Mother of God (Theotokos). The excavated site suggests that it was built by Byzantine workmen and has similarities with the church Mstislav went on to commission in Chernigov.[9] After his death, he was followed by a succession of short-lived petty dynasts. Gleb Svyatoslavich was given command of the city by his father, Svyatoslav Yaroslavich, but in 1064 he was displaced by the rival Rus prince Rostislav Vladimirovich who in his turn was forced to flee the city when Gleb approached with an army led by his father. Once Svyatoslav left, however, Rostislav expelled Gleb once again. During his brief rule, he subdued the local Circassians (also known as Kasogi) and other indigenous tribes, but his success provoked the suspicion of neighboring Greek Chersonesos in the Crimea, whose Byzantine envoy poisoned him on 3 February 1066.[10]

Afterwards command of Tmutarakan returned to the prince of Chernigov[11] and then to the Grand Prince of Kiev, Vsevolod Yaroslavich. In 1079, Svyatoslav Yaroslavich appointed a governor (posadnik), but he was captured two years later by David Igorevich and Volodar Rostislavich, who seized the city.[12] Exiled from the city to Byzantium by Khazar agents during this turbulent time, Oleg Svyatoslavich returned to Tmutarakan in 1083 and ousted the usurpers, adopting the title of "archon of Khazaria" (Arakhan of Tmutar), and placed the city under nominal Byzantine control. But he also issued rough silver coins in his own name which included a short inscription in Cyrillic letters. Then in 1094, like Mstislav before him, he returned to Rus to claim the throne of Chernigov.[13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmutarakan

 

[Baybars Han]

In fact, less than 300 years. But it is enough to be called historical - the whole history of the US lasts less.
But. Eastern part of Crimea was part of Russian Tmutarakan Principality (green) in 10-12 ct.
View attachment 402813

Although the exact date and circumstances of Tmutarakan's takeover by Kievan Rus are uncertain, the Hypatian Codex mentions Tmutarakan as one of the towns that Vladimir the Great gave to his sons, which implies that Rus control over the city was established in the late 10th century and certainly before Vladimir's death in 1015.[7] Bronze and silver imitations of Byzantine coinage were struck by the new rulers during this period.[8]

Vladimir's son Mstislav of Chernigov was the prince of Tmutarakan at the start of the 11th century. During his reign, a first stone church was dedicated to the Mother of God (Theotokos). The excavated site suggests that it was built by Byzantine workmen and has similarities with the church Mstislav went on to commission in Chernigov.[9] After his death, he was followed by a succession of short-lived petty dynasts. Gleb Svyatoslavich was given command of the city by his father, Svyatoslav Yaroslavich, but in 1064 he was displaced by the rival Rus prince Rostislav Vladimirovich who in his turn was forced to flee the city when Gleb approached with an army led by his father. Once Svyatoslav left, however, Rostislav expelled Gleb once again. During his brief rule, he subdued the local Circassians (also known as Kasogi) and other indigenous tribes, but his success provoked the suspicion of neighboring Greek Chersonesos in the Crimea, whose Byzantine envoy poisoned him on 3 February 1066.[10]

Afterwards command of Tmutarakan returned to the prince of Chernigov[11] and then to the Grand Prince of Kiev, Vsevolod Yaroslavich. In 1079, Svyatoslav Yaroslavich appointed a governor (posadnik), but he was captured two years later by David Igorevich and Volodar Rostislavich, who seized the city.[12] Exiled from the city to Byzantium by Khazar agents during this turbulent time, Oleg Svyatoslavich returned to Tmutarakan in 1083 and ousted the usurpers, adopting the title of "archon of Khazaria" (Arakhan of Tmutar), and placed the city under nominal Byzantine control. But he also issued rough silver coins in his own name which included a short inscription in Cyrillic letters. Then in 1094, like Mstislav before him, he returned to Rus to claim the throne of Chernigov.[13]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tmutarakan

Then add another 100 years. 300 to 400 years at max. Turks have been in Crimea for over 500 years in history in comparison and today its illegally occupied by Russia.

 

[vostok]

Then add another 100 years. 300 to 400 years at max. Turks have been in Crimea for over 500 years in history in comparison and today its illegally occupied by Russia.

So what? Greeks are there for almoust 3000 years. The only thing that is matter - Crimea is returned to Russia.

 

[DejanSRB]

Then add another 100 years. 300 to 400 years at max. Turks have been in Crimea for over 500 years in history in comparison and today its illegally occupied by Russia.

With that logic, Constantinopol belongs to Greeks, becouse it was Greek from 330 to 1453. Just like Asia Minor.

 

[TMA]

Crimea was not historically owned by Russia, what are you talking about. Prove to me in medieval times before the Khazar Khanates, Golden Hordes, Crimean Tatars that it was run by slavs, you cant. It was only russian for like 300 years.

The important thing is that it is full of Russians.

Do not forget that Turkey has been longer part of the Roman and Greek world than it has been Turkish. Should then Turkey give up her territory?

 

[flamer84]

With that logic, Constantinopol belongs to Greeks, becouse it was Greek from 330 to 1453. Just like Asia Minor.

Far more than that as it was Greek even before the Romans came.

 

[DejanSRB]

Far more than that as it was Greek even before the Romans came.

Absolutely right. Constantinopol was named after emperor Constantin on old Greek city named Byzantion. That little town was colonized by city state Megara back in 657 before Christ.
So it was Greek town for more then 2000 years.

@flamer84 I just put 20 euros on X between Poland and Romania, lets call this day "Romanian national sports day" hahahahaha

 

[-SINAN-]

@vostok @flamer84

We dont need to enter disscusions like this.
It is useless. Only Poland give more to the world in 20th century then all of third world countries combined, and just put aside Russian contribution to the world in terms of art, science, culture which was greater then all third world countries contributions in WHOLE SECOND MILENIUM.
When Zvorkin worked on TV, Tesla on alternative current, Coanda on airplane, Maria Curie on radiology, our part of Europe was on the same level of technology of Western Europe.
And WE ARE EUROPEANS, we was, we are and we will always be.
What is Europe without Dostoyevski, Tesla, Coanda, Tolstoy, Tschikovsky, Landau, Suvorov, Maria Curie, Kopernikus, Milutin Milankovic, Drazen Petrovic, Nadia Comenaci...
What would happen to Europe without Jan Sobieski, Vlad Cepes and Russian emperors, without Russian Revolution, Romanian Revolution, Solidarity in 80s...
Steaua and Red Star both won Champions League.
Partizan and CSKA Euroleague.
After Western Europe + USA, Central and Eastern Europe + Russia make greatest contribution in last 500 years. Maybe I am Serb, but when I go to South America or East Asia as a tourist, i declare myself as a European, just like Ayn Rand, Jan Sobieski, Sheakspeare, Bismarck, Bach, Mozzart, Mendeleev...it is part of our life. And even Europe was not fair on Serbia sometimes, it is our home. Most glorious and powerful place it will ever be. Period.

You may be the only nationalistic European person , i have ever encountered in PDF.

Serbs are nationalistic people in general ?

 

[flamer84]

Absolutely right. Constantinopol was named after emperor Constantin on old Greek city named Byzantion. That little town was colonized by city state Megara back in 657 before Christ.
So it was Greek town for more then 2000 years.

@flamer84 I just put 20 euros on X between Poland and Romania, lets call this day "Romanian national sports day" hahahahaha

Poland is going to flatten us

 

[Glass]

With that logic, Constantinopol belongs to Greeks, becouse it was Greek from 330 to 1453. Just like Asia Minor.

and before anatolia was greek it was anatolian

 

[DejanSRB]

You may be the only nationalistic European person , i have ever encountered in PDF.

Serbs are nationalistic people in general ?

Just like Turkey, believe me, very similiar mindset.
20 % of Serbs support our "Mhp" like parties. Very nationalistic people.
10% liberals. I personally despise them. Liberals in Serbia are like cockroaches. In communist times they was communist, in liberal times they are liberals, if aliens come to Serbia they will become more greener then aliens, the only thing that matters for them are autochauvism.
70% are like me, proud Serbs, who are proud about any sequence of our history, for example I am not hardcore Orthodox Christian. But I respect our tradition and history.

You see? Similar mindset.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

With that logic, Constantinopol belongs to Greeks, becouse it was Greek from 330 to 1453. Just like Asia Minor.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7820924.stm


Back to topic, Eastern Europeans weren't independent under Soviet reign and to be fair they're still not sovereign today. You guys were always a game ball among Russians, Europeans and to some extent Turks (Balkan).

Flamer might say that Western Europeans like them but it's simply not true. British can't stand Polish immigrants, the German either don't like Polish people but they accept them because of their weak Polish identity. Just visit Germany to understand my point. The moment a Polish guy gets a job in Germany he already starts to erase his own identity and culture. Polish women in particular are marrying German men. It's pathetic. On the one hand the Polish act like the most nationalistic people at all on the other hand they lost their identity the sec they leave Poland. I don't have any respect for them.

Romanians get even less respect than Polish. Serbia? Just google 'Serbien muss sterbien'. They still are devils in the eyes of Western Europeans.

What I've described is nothing new. You all know these facts but choose to live in denial.