Discuss PAK-IND air wars

[peacemaker10]

Lolllzzz. This is the forth or fifth time I am witnessing this link from an Indian member. With so many ??? this is a credible link to Indians.

Bring something new dear and authentic one and unbiased one.

East pakistan >> Bangladesh

Authentic and unbiased

 

[aks]

Guys.....

Its true PAF had the upper hand in the air-to-air battles with the IAF
while it is also true that IA and IN had the upper habd over the Pakistani counterparts.
And bottom line both the sides are not gonna accept wat the other side claims.

if m not wrong in 1965 war indian army was not having upper hand correct me if m wrong

 

[honour]

if m not wrong in 1965 war indian army was not having upper hand correct me if m wrong

yes India was not so good in the 1965 war but still pushed the Pakistani's back......

well lets stick to the topic of air wars..............

 

[aks]

yes India was not so good in the 1965 war but still pushed the Pakistani's back......

well lets stick to the topic of air wars..............

if i am again not wrong indians crossed international borders by attacking 2nd largest city of pakistan lahore and it was surprise attack border security guards stooped them until army arrived and according to wikipedia that battle of lahore was success of pakistan we defended lahore successfully

 

[Windjammer]

sir pleased to here that...well will be very happy if u join with us


Moreover they even claim to win the kargil war...they even claim Kashmir is theirs...even windj claims there is "insurgency" in Tamilnadu
what can we do about that???????????

well now @ windj....you didn't answered his <indiarocks>question....did Jordan released the pictures of their f-104 aircraft's when returned.....ony opertational picture after 1971 war.........

Now you are back to your usual nonsense, did Russia even disclose their Airforce personnel were flying and helping India, did Egypt ever say that all the Russian arms and ammo meant for the Egyptian armed forces was diverted to India, and before you even talk about another sovereign country like Jordan ask yourself, unlike Pakistan, why didn't India allow a Western observer to analyse the entries in the Indian Airforce logs and determine how credible or authentic the are.

 

[honour]

Now you are back to your usual nonsense, did Russia even disclose their Airforce personnel were flying and helping India, did Egypt ever say that all the Russian arms and ammo meant for the Egyptian armed forces was diverted to India, and before you even talk about another sovereign country like Jordan ask yourself, unlike Pakistan, why didn't India allow a Western observer to analyse the entries in the Indian Airforce logs and determine how credible or authentic the are.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....no answer provided...plz answer me...

moreover you forgot to add secular,neutral,prosperous,developed,democratic to your description of Jordan....

 

[shiningindia]

Discuss PAK-IND air wars

oh..please we don't need to discuss on this topic because it increase the conflict between us.
war can not be the option. we both countries can solve our conflict by peaceful talk.
why not mr.growler created the topic such like"how can we remove the conflict between india and pakistan by peaceful ways"

 

[honour]

if i am again not wrong indians crossed international borders by attacking 2nd largest city of pakistan lahore and it was surprise attack border security guards stooped them until army arrived and according to wikipedia that battle of lahore was success of pakistan we defended lahore successfully

yes agree to you here...Lahore was successfully defended by Pakistan in the war...but to reach Lahore outers was itself an achievement for india....
plz stick to topic...i will tell you to start a new thread on indo pak wars of 1971/65

 

[KS]

Expected a genuine and facts based answer from you...not an generalised answer based on these non neutral posts

Nothing mate...wen i get into a argument with WJ the thread seems to get locked....

Anyway u guys seem to be doing a good job...carry on....

P.S: I dont see any merit in de-constructing a war into specific battles and then arguing who won the battle..

Wat matters is ultimately who won the war .

Anyway carry on guys...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

yes agree to you here...Lahore was successfully defended by Pakistan in the war...but to reach Lahore outers was itself an achievement for india....
plz stick to topic...i will tell you to start a new thread on indo pak wars of 1971/65

EPIC FAIL JOKE

 

[Windjammer]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....no answer provided...plz answer me...

moreover you forgot to add secular,neutral,prosperous,developed,democratic to your description of Jordan....

He He He, rather than singing the same lousy tune, suppose you provide some evidence that the Jordanian aircraft actually participated in the war
Any wreckage pictures of the como F-104s, something like this.

 

[WAQAS119]

P.S: I dont see any merit in de-constructing a war into specific battles and then arguing who won the battle..

Wat matters is ultimately who won the war .

yeap so true

 

[KS]

EPIC FAIL JOKE

reason............?

 

[honour]

He He He, rather than singing the same lousy tune, suppose you provide some evidence that the Jordanian aircraft actually participated in the war
Any wreckage pictures of the como F-104s, something like this.

To tell you India claims to have shot down the two RJAF F-104 starfighters in nayachor which is in Pakistan....so the wreckage must be with you...
Earlier one more starfighter of RJAF was claimed to have been shot down in utterlai but later on it was found to be of Pakistan..an clarification issued in may 1972....

 

[Areesh]

Ohhh really??? OK lets look at the link that windjammer provided and its sources

Here is what he provided - F-104A/B in Combat





Here is what i provided [3.0] F-104 In Foreign Service (2)

Sources




Now may i ask what source you find to be Indian here??? In fact most of the sources in both the links are same...The only difference is my link is more recent than link by windjammer...Comon open your eyes before making foolish statements and calling others immature....





Wow...what a justification...when you do not accept anything written by Indian you want me to accept what Pakistan says??? Isn't this immature??? I have shared with you a neutral source claiming there were significantlosses...provide me a neutral source which says the opposite...i know you can't...

Let me for your benefit tell you something more clearly...

Mig-21 was soviet answer to F-104....F-104 was designed for Hit and Run combat as it was not maneuverable like Mig-21...This is what Indian's exploited...Care to explain the fighter that did well in 65(as claimed by Pak) was suddenly replaced by Mirage 5 right after the war where as per Pak it did well??? Does that make sense??? A fighter suddenly was not worth right with in 6 years time frame....Think about it...

As said before as far as this source is concerned it is dedicated to F-104 and its sales across the world as well its performance with different Air Forces...Lockhead would know each and every F-104 being made and what was sold to whom...Along with what was transferred from what country to what.....

P.S : I think i have said enough on this topic....If you don't agree then debunk me with sources...



Look at post# 19, 21 where i am asking for sources from members posting their findings...then look at post#30 where growler gave me western source about 71 war...I took it and started my fact findings...Now tell me when i say lets stick to one topic in hand how wrong was I??? After 7 pages what have we concluded...Nothing.....

Its just fan boys who don't want to find the truth but want to push others and debunk them....


Now Look at post#41..On my request of source windJammer again gave me 71 war source...and then look at post#45 i requested you to stick to 71 since i already had two bulky posts to reply and wanted to keep the discussion in check so that we all can learn and conclude...Fair???


Now look at this thread....Pictures, Newspaper cuttings etc are being shared without any particular direction....So i try to give some direction in post # 45(Indian Source) and then post # 52(neutral source)....Not only that instead of just copy pasting exercise i posted only relevant columns and asked some very valid questions....How about ou replying to them???? I know you won't because the obvious will come out...If you don't think so why don't you answer them???

Just for your comfort i am re-posting my neutral link where this canadian gentelman clearly says who was ruling the sky....look at my post 52 and if you can answer my questions...

The India-Pakistan War Of 1971: A Modern War

Now may i ask what source you find to be Indian here??? In fact most of the sources in both the links are same...The only difference is my link is more recent than link by windjammer...Comon open your eyes before making foolish statements and calling others immature....

No problem I would create a blog today and post the same in that blog. It would be the most recent link available on the web. Don't you think your criteria of authenticity is very silly.

Wow...what a justification...when you do not accept anything written by Indian you want me to accept what Pakistan says??? Isn't this immature??? I have shared with you a neutral source claiming there were significantlosses...provide me a neutral source which says the opposite...i know you can't...

And that "neutral" source is uncertain about Pakistan F-104 losses and then claims that PAF suffer significant losses of F-104. Lollzz Who is the creator of this site. Albert Einstein??? Looks like a big genius.

And this web site also claims that Pakistanis also accept these so called significant losses which PAF or GOP never did. What a neutral, credible source. And I never said that you should accept what PAF says just telling you that your "neutral" site is pretty stupid.

Mig-21 was soviet answer to F-104....F-104 was designed for Hit and Run combat as it was not maneuverable like Mig-21...This is what Indian's exploited...Care to explain the fighter that did well in 65(as claimed by Pak) was suddenly replaced by Mirage 5 right after the war where as per Pak it did well??? Does that make sense??? A fighter suddenly was not worth right with in 6 years time frame....Think about it...

There was no need for this but anyways Growler answered it comprehensively.

Now Look at post#41..On my request of source windJammer again gave me 71 war source...and then look at post#45 i requested you to stick to 71 since i already had two bulky posts to reply and wanted to keep the discussion in check so that we all can learn and conclude...Fair???


Now look at this thread....Pictures, Newspaper cuttings etc are being shared without any particular direction....So i try to give some direction in post # 45(Indian Source) and then post # 52(neutral source)....Not only that instead of just copy pasting exercise i posted only relevant columns and asked some very valid questions....How about ou replying to them???? I know you won't because the obvious will come out...If you don't think so why don't you answer them???

Why go to Post # 41. Let's start from the beginning. In post#15 WJ provided official docs of PAF about Squadron # 14 and then in post # 21 you asked for the source. So WJ provided the source which you neglected saying that it is a PAF source. That source of WJ was about 1965 war. In response to your post Growler in post#30 posted the scans of UK based, Air enthusiast Magazine MAY 1972. This source was about 1971 was and was posted on your request. Then since we were talking about 1965 war we continued posting about our achievements in 1965 war. Then in post # 32 I posted about how our falcons hunted CM of Gujrat in 1965 war. Then just after my post Growler posted link about Pakistan's air parade after 1965 war. So this post is again related with 1965 war. Then just after Growler post in WJ post # 34 posted scans of John Fricker findings about M M Alam hunt of Indian aircrafts in 1965 war. Then in post # 44 again I posted IAF claims of kills against PAF in 1965 war. So in short we were talking or discussing about 1965 war. When in the very next post you decided to derail the topic and jumped to 1971 war.

Your post was post # 45 in which tried to derail the discussion without any conclusion about 1965. You said:

Areesh for now lets stick to 71...seems like its only me battling here , so let's stick to one topic at a time...

The above post of yours clearly shows that you jumped to 1971 from the ongoing discussion of 1965.

I won't blame you. All Indians were doing the same in this thread. You are not the only one.

I have to do spoon feeding even I hate it.

Just for your comfort i am re-posting my neutral link where this canadian gentelman clearly says who was ruling the sky....look at my post 52 and if you can answer my questions...

Growler has already cleared that globalsecurity reports are based on different sources many of which are unauthentic and many times it uses Indian sources also. Can you tell me how many times the globalsecurity has used Indian sources in their report in the link that you provided to me.