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Discourse with Col Asad: Hindutva and Future of India

For that you need a ball of steels and to be fair Current leadership is missing those.

Exactly.

I am your avid follower on Twitter and know full well that we possess that capability of hitting the foe at will, as I was disagreeing with @R Wing the other day. The problem is that will is found wanting for some reason today. It is anyone's guess what the reason for that is. Is it the hope to get near Uncle Sam who now wants hands-off India so it could concentrate on the Chinese? If that is the case, what about Pakistani interests that India is undermining under this protective umbrella? Is the cost of this hope in the hearts of Pakistani elites of getting closer to the W camp once more not too steep? As for COAS's visit to the US, I suspect it has to do with the signal US gave to Pakistan on the eve of PM's visit to China calling it an important strategic partner. We were looking for an opening and feel like one foot is in the door now, hence the visit to improve things. I do not think Gen. Bajwa is made of the stuff that would have him stand up in this way. Also, we could not even tacitly admit to our potential of fomenting instability on territories controlled by the Indians in official engagements. FATF et al.

We do not have the capability to cause any significant or even tit-for-tat damage without exposing ourselves --- or, to use the boys' favorite term, leave "signatures." These are deemed unacceptable (FATF, sanctions, etc.)

Bilateral relations with the US can perhaps be improved but what shared interest do we have in the region? Either we roll back CPEC and jump back into the US camp for good (not possible) or we accept that strategic interests in the region have sharply diverged.
 
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Enough with the same nonsense.

India becoming less tolerant...
India not safe for minorities...
India a threat to regional peace...

The West: great, let's sell billions in weapons to them and support them against China, the main global threat to our system.

Pakistan: complaining and moaning, yet not weaponizing a single one of these apparently massive minority grievances against the BJP/Indian state into a working insurgency/armed rebellion/PTM-style "rights movement."

Pathetic. Kaan pakk gaey hein hearing the same complaints over and over and over again.

@Bleek @Pak Nationalist @SQ8
The only way to weaponize is to fix Pakistani society and economy. Western states have their fixed agenda that is 30 years ahead and unlike Russia,China & India there is no one in Pakistani state apparently smart enough to have an organized messaging machine.
PTV makes those floozy messages, ISPR does its own thing and all of the nincumpoops seem to have no idea how web psychology works.
 
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#Modi #Hindutva #SAG_Analysis
Hindutva and Future of India
Indian Army Chief offers Demilitrization of Siachin
Is Indian Foreign policy changing?
Muskan Khan, Symbol of Courage for Indian minorities
A symbol of courage for ALL Indians opposed to the bigotry of the majority, even those of us who are opposed to the burkha as regressive when seen outside the context of the blatant Islamophobia that is on display currently.

Enough with the same nonsense.

India becoming less tolerant...
India not safe for minorities...
India a threat to regional peace...

The West: great, let's sell billions in weapons to them and support them against China, the main global threat to our system.

Pakistan: complaining and moaning, yet not weaponizing a single one of these apparently massive minority grievances against the BJP/Indian state into a working insurgency/armed rebellion/PTM-style "rights movement."

Pathetic. Kaan pakk gaey hein hearing the same complaints over and over and over again.

@Bleek @Pak Nationalist @SQ8
It is utterly irresponsible to read a Pakistani member write about weaponising these grievances. About as sensible as those creepy Hindutva hyper-patriots who drool on reading about Pakistani casualties at the hands of Baloch, who keep asking - in the safety of their computer room - why India does not peremptorily take back the parts of Kashmir that are with Pakistan, and more on those lines.

I am sorry, but I wish these statements were not made.
 
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A symbol of courage for ALL Indians opposed to the bigotry of the majority, even those of us who are opposed to the burkha as regressive when seen outside the context of the blatant Islamophobia that is on display currently.


It is utterly irresponsible to read a Pakistani member write about weaponising these grievances. About as sensible as those creepy Hindutva hyper-patriots who drool on reading about Pakistani casualties at the hands of Baloch, who keep asking - in the safety of their computer room - why India does not peremptorily take back the parts of Kashmir that are with Pakistan, and more on those lines.

I am sorry, but I wish these statements were not made.
Huzoor, you need to rewatch The Godfather- “It’s not personal, it’s business”

Whatever Modi and his cabal is pumping out has to be countered from a Pakistani perspective in energy if not wavelength. At the end, it will likely not be what is best for the peoples of the subcontinent or even the world but from the perspective of Pakistanis it is Pakistan that matters. Unfortunately, whether their actions match their words is generally an unknown. India’s biggest advantage is that it is every Pakistani for themselves 80% of the time regardless of verbal swashbuckling - something which Indians do have but did take the bigger picture of fellow Indians into mind.
 
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Huzoor, you need to rewatch The Godfather- “It’s not personal, it’s business”

Whatever Modi and his cabal is pumping out has to be countered from a Pakistani perspective in energy if not wavelength. At the end, it will likely not be what is best for the peoples of the subcontinent or even the world but from the perspective of Pakistanis it is Pakistan that matters. Unfortunately, whether their actions match their words is generally an unknown. India’s biggest advantage is that it is every Pakistani for themselves 80% of the time regardless of verbal swashbuckling - something which Indians do have but did take the bigger picture of fellow Indians into mind.
I can understand, but I still do not agree, just as I do not agree with those of my compatriots who talk loosely of war and war-like situations. Yes, clearly, Pakistan as a nation, from every individual Pakistani citizen's point of view, must look after her own interests, and not let it lapse by default.

Perhaps it would be easier understood if I ask the awkward question of how Pakistan's interest is better served; by 'weaponising' the grievances of the minorities, grievances that are inevitable given the bigotry of the Sangh Parivar, or by supporting the restoration of the relatively more secular situation that prevailed before 2014.

Why would Pakistan not at least examine this option with open minds (and open hearts)? How can Pakistan lose by restoration of a peaceful condition in her larger neighbour to the east, a peaceful condition that also would imply a greater stability in this neighbour's decision-making, a lesser resort to the kind of utterly phony dramatics that the present government seems to prefer to any other expedient whatsoever?

Is a neighbour reaching peace and stability such a terrible thing? Have Pakistani observers and Delhi-watchers entirely forgotten the post-Gujral years, when the activities of R&W were severely restricted, and there were no desi cowboys leaping around the place in every imaginable trouble spot?

One of the most disappointing aspects of dealing with Pakistani opinion, even the most balanced, mature and sensible opinion, is the lack of memory that is on display. We are constantly told - 'we' in this case being the liberal Indian segment of the population - that things are much worse now, and special efforts are needed to cope with it. The irresistible question is - why did the opposite thought never occur? Why, when 'things' were far better (as is necessary for them to be far worse today), was there not the slightest effort to respond to peaceful overtures? It is all very well to say today that our resident psychopath needs to be dealt with, by escalation; why were his predecessors, the non-psychopathic element among India's political people, not encouraged?

Huzoor, you need to rewatch The Godfather- “It’s not personal, it’s business”

Whatever Modi and his cabal is pumping out has to be countered from a Pakistani perspective in energy if not wavelength. At the end, it will likely not be what is best for the peoples of the subcontinent or even the world but from the perspective of Pakistanis it is Pakistan that matters. Unfortunately, whether their actions match their words is generally an unknown. India’s biggest advantage is that it is every Pakistani for themselves 80% of the time regardless of verbal swashbuckling - something which Indians do have but did take the bigger picture of fellow Indians into mind.
That still leaves open the question of lesser Pakistani focus on the agenda for Pakistan, and the greater Indian focus on the agenda for India. Only if and when the Modi circus is thrown out, only when India goes through her own programme equivalent of de-Nazification - and it will be a nasty, unpleasant and non-linear process, with many setbacks clearly foreseeable even at the moment - will we know the facts and have access to fair observation by witnesses.
 
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India is aggressor against Pakistan, since 1947. BJP is merely a new face of that persistent aggression.
I beg to differ.

We can take this point by point, from 1947-48, to 1965, to 1971, to 1999, if you are open to it.

The BJP is an ugly and toxic distortion of Indian politics, that has a parasitical tendency to enter every situation, and pervert it to its own ends. It has little or nothing in common with the general trend in India until 2014. It cannot be misrepresented as merely an extended version of Indian politics.
 
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Rather than doing an in depth analysis on our beloved neighbors, we, as a nation, ought to take care and concentrate on the happenings closer to home. Fixing ourselves must be the primary aim of patriots.

India will always be India. It will always be their - perhaps more accessible leadership and more responsive to a peaceful co existence - but until that day we need to move mountains to fix ourselves in every way..........
 
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I beg to differ.

We can take this point by point, from 1947-48, to 1965, to 1971, to 1999, if you are open to it.

The BJP is an ugly and toxic distortion of Indian politics, that has a parasitical tendency to enter every situation, and pervert it to its own ends. It has little or nothing in common with the general trend in India until 2014. It cannot be misrepresented as merely an extended version of Indian politics.

1) If a legitimate property of entity X is taken by entity Y, by means of aggression; and thereupon, that property is held by X, again by means of aggression; the aggression would be deemed to be persistent and continuous, just like a chronic disease.

2) INC and BJP may be considered different, by Indians, depending upon their policies and practices; but they are one and the same, as far as Pakistan is concerned. Absolutely no difference.
 
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1) If a legitimate property of entity X is taken by entity Y, by means of aggression; and thereupon, that property is held by X, again by means of aggression; the aggression would be deemed to be persistent and continuous, just like a chronic disease.
True. That is precisely the Indian position.
2) INC and BJP may be considered different, by Indians, depending upon their policies and practices; but they are one and the same, as far as Pakistan is concerned. Absolutely no difference.
Difficult to help in such circumstances.
 
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True. That is precisely the Indian position.

Yes. Precisely. Since Pakistan deems India as a persistent aggressor, and, conversely, India also thinks Pakistan to be so; there is hardly any difference between BJP and INC, from Pakistani perspective. That was my original proposition, which holds.

So, for us, there is absolutely no difference between Gandhi/Nehru/Patel and Savarkar/Golwalkar.

We, the Pakistani Punjabis, have coined a proverb, in English language:

"Natha Singh and Prem Singh
One and the same thing"
:lol:

Difficult to help in such circumstances.

Doesn't matter. I retain respect for you and your views, and of a few other Indian posters.
 
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Yes. Precisely. Since Pakistan deems India as a persistent aggressor, and, conversely, India also thinks Pakistan to be so; there is hardly any difference between BJP and INC, from Pakistani perspective. That was my original proposition, which holds.

So, for us, there is absolutely no difference between Gandhi/Nehru/Patel and Savarkar/Golwalkar.

We, the Pakistani Punjabis, have coined a proverb, in English language:

"Natha Singh and Prem Singh
One and the same thing"
:lol:



Doesn't matter. I retain respect for you and your views, and of a few other Indian posters.
The BJP, and the rest of the Sangh Parivar, hates Muslims. Others don't.
 
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The BJP, and the rest of the Sangh Parivar, hates Muslims. Others don't.

The difference, you mentioned, I agree, with a proviso that even INC accommodated a number of political leaders, who were extremist, in their views; but, the problem is that it doesn't solve the Indo-Pak problem, which, in my view, has destructed this whole of Subcontinent.
 
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