Diriliş Ertuğrul: Turkish views needed

[Lincoln]

So, lately this series called Diriliş Ertuğrul has taken off really fast in Pakistan, and I mean really fast, thanks to the Government and what I would assert as pan expansionist ideals of people.

It has quickly crossed 15 million views on a single video, which is a lot; and so naturally a lot threads have been up about it... however, our Turkish members here have chosen not to comment on, or share their opinion, barely if so.

So, I talked with some Turkish people, and got to know their opinion. Here's what I got to know.

1. That the series is not at all historically accurate, and that is because there are very, very little to non existent sources on Ertuğrul, so most of the stuff is just made up, we don't know his religious views, or philosophy.
   
2. The series is being used as a political tool by the 'ruling party' and for conservatives. They said that whenever there is a certain political atmosphere, the next episode will subtly address it here and there in their favor.
3. It's not Turkish history, rather religious propaganda. If you want to feed false history as long as it's Islamic propaganda, then this is good for it.

Are these things true? What's your take on the series, I think it's good if you guys share your view because that's sort of an insider view which is more eye opening.

Ofcourse, other views are welcome.

@MMM-E @dBSPL @CAN_TR
Pretty irrelevant topic for Turks right now but a comment would be nice.

 

[Asian.Century]

Pakistanis are just enjoying it as a very nice Drama Series, like other webseries on Netflix, Youtube and Pakistani television dramas.

Ertugal makes Pakistanis feel emotional may be natural love to Turks, and Islamic history despite some inaccuracies in it.

Treat it has a partiotic drama series and enjoy the story.

 

[Lincoln]

Personally; this series's production value is nice, but it is annoying how it is being propagated in Pakistan. I don't like it for several reasons.

1. It is, and will, ignite a pan Islamist, expansionist concept in many people; and I have seen this, people in the comments section going about how borders should be erased, and the caliphate should be brought back. This is contrary to the idea of a country, how can Pakistan exist if you support a single government setup for all Muslims.
2. It will implant wrong ideas and expectations in minds of people about Turkey, its culture and people. People will have this flawed view about their history, and their current being. In example, an average Pakistani doesn't know anything about the founder of the Turkish Republic that is Kemal Atatürk or its culture such as alcohol being a part of its cuisine, if you were to introduce these to them, they would probably go into a state of shock or wouldn't be able to believe. They wouldn't even know that the Hijab wasn't completely unbanned in Turkey until the 2014! Heck, those who know of the founder, they consider him to be a British spy, and consider Erdoğan as a savior. This lack of connection to the actual Turkish Republic and feelings is very, very sad and bad.
   
3. Expanding on the previous idea... people will feel that they're connected to Turkey by religious bounds rather than by historical bounds, when it is the latter which has a greater play in our reality.

These are my issues with this series and how it's being peddled up in the sky in Pakistan, I think it's doing more than just teach Islamic ethics, it is subtly, unintentionally reinforcing other ideas at the back of peoples' minds which I mentioned above.

But, it is good religious propaganda nonetheless and it will definitely replace the religious perspectives in Pakistan which are influenced by Saudi version, just with a Turkish version. But it will remain and outsider perspective, and I don't personally like that... why can't we develop ourselves when we had so many great Islamic philosophers like Iqbal.

Other things I find bad about this, just generally.

• It's not historically accurate I guess, people will take this as true value, and I think that's sad.
• It's seriously wrong. Hundreds of episodes. People are asking PTV to upload 3 episodes a day where each episode is at least 1 hour 20 minutes long... that's no less than 4 hours to 6 hours a day... for hundreds of episodes. It's such a time waste.

I don't understand why Government couldn't bring in foreign producers, directors and editors if need be, but invest in a domestic production which covers our Islamic history and our heroes. And if Government is really so worried about Islamic ethics, it can start from the mosques where nothing but irrelevant stuff is fed nowadays. Everyone goes to mosque, how big of a difference would it make if the Imam made one of his Friday sermons on social morality and conduct, or on keeping the public places clean, or such stuff.

My opinion.

Pakistanis are just enjoying it as a very nice Drama Series, like other webseries on Netflix, Youtube and Pakistani television dramas.

Ertugal makes Pakistanis feel emotional may be natural love to Turks, and Islamic history despite some inaccuracies in it.

Treat it has a partiotic drama series and enjoy the story.

Patriotic for who exactly? I know it is a television series and is not a documentary, but our people are taking it at face value... and it's subtly, unintentionally reinforcing ideas of a Caliphate, it's killing the patriotism, not giving it energy. That's my concern. You know how Pakistani people are.

 

[jaibi]

It's a show, mate, I think it should be enjoyed as such and, personally, I think HumTV and ARY Digital and the ilk need to take some notes and move away from the typical garbage on the television right now. It's so annoying that it's not even funny now.

 

[Lincoln]

It's a show, mate, I think it should be enjoyed as such and, personally, I think HumTV and ARY Digital and the ilk need to take some notes and move away from the typical garbage on the television right now. It's so annoying that it's not even funny now.

It's not just a show, the topic it covers is a pretty strong one for people in Pakistan, shouldn't we consider how it will effect the opinions of people? People talk about '5th Generation Warfare' all the time based off some nobody's tweet with a couple thousand likes, but when it comes to an entire series with around like over 1000 hours of watchable content, with already a sudden millions of viewers, people are not at all concerned about its effect on people and their opinions.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I have a lot of friends and relatives who LOVES this series but your observations are mostly true. I've never watched it more than 20 minutes or so but it's a good show afterall... Hell, I'm even thinking about watching it one day...

 

[jaibi]

Much of history itself is biased, even if your views are true, how many people knew of the story happening in the show? Once they finish it, they can read up on it too. Those who're just watching it for entertainment would move on to watch some saas-bahu crap on Hum TV. (yeah, I don't like the entertainment we have)

Personally; this series's production value is nice, but it is annoying how it is being propagated in Pakistan. I don't like it for several reasons.

1. It is, and will, ignite a pan Islamist, expansionist concept in many people; and I have seen this, people in the comments section going about how borders should be erased, and the caliphate should be brought back. This is contrary to the idea of a country, how can Pakistan exist if you support a single government setup for all Muslims.
2. It will implant wrong ideas and expectations in minds of people about Turkey, its culture and people. People will have this flawed view about their history, and their current being. In example, an average Pakistani doesn't know anything about the founder of the Turkish Republic that is Kemal Atatürk or its culture such as alcohol being a part of its cuisine, if you were to introduce these to them, they would probably go into a state of shock or wouldn't be able to believe. They wouldn't even know that the Hijab wasn't completely unbanned in Turkey until the 2014! Heck, those who know of the founder, they consider him to be a British spy, and consider Erdoğan as a savior. This lack of connection to the actual Turkish Republic and feelings is very, very sad and bad.
   
3. Expanding on the previous idea... people will feel that they're connected to Turkey by religious bounds rather than by historical bounds, when it is the latter which has a greater play in our reality.

These are my issues with this series and how it's being peddled up in the sky in Pakistan, I think it's doing more than just teach Islamic ethics, it is subtly, unintentionally reinforcing other ideas at the back of peoples' minds which I mentioned above.

But, it is good religious propaganda nonetheless and it will definitely replace the religious perspectives in Pakistan which are influenced by Saudi version, just with a Turkish version. But it will remain and outsider perspective, and I don't personally like that... why can't we develop ourselves when we had so many great Islamic philosophers like Iqbal.

Other things I find bad about this, just generally.

• It's not historically accurate I guess, people will take this as true value, and I think that's sad.
• It's seriously wrong. Hundreds of episodes. People are asking PTV to upload 3 episodes a day where each episode is at least 1 hour 20 minutes long... that's no less than 4 hours to 6 hours a day... for hundreds of episodes. It's such a time waste.

I don't understand why Government couldn't bring in foreign producers, directors and editors if need be, but invest in a domestic production which covers our Islamic history and our heroes. And if Government is really so worried about Islamic ethics, it can start from the mosques where nothing but irrelevant stuff is fed nowadays. Everyone goes to mosque, how big of a difference would it make if the Imam made one of his Friday sermons on social morality and conduct, or on keeping the public places clean, or such stuff.

My opinion.



Patriotic for who exactly? I know it is a television series and is not a documentary, but our people are taking it at face value... and it's subtly, unintentionally reinforcing ideas of a Caliphate, it's killing the patriotism, not giving it energy. That's my concern. You know how Pakistani people are.

 

[Lincoln]

I have a lot of friends and relatives who LOVES this series but your observations are mostly true. I've never watched it more than 20 minutes or so but it's a good show afterall... Hell, I'm even thinking watching it one day...

Yes, it's a nice production.

 

[jaibi]

Our people are already not willing to explore other forms of entertainment. If they're watching something other than Desi Dramas, I'd welcome it. In my view, the historicisity of the show is far removed from people's minds. Those who are conservative would read that conservatism into any and everything that they see and vice versa. Even if it was being very stringently accurate. So, don't really think it'd be a problem.

It's not just a show, the topic it covers is a pretty strong one for people in Pakistan, shouldn't we consider how it will effect the opinions of people?

 

[Lincoln]

Much of history itself is biased, even if your views are true, how many people knew of the story happening in the show? Once they finish it, they can read up on it too. Those who're just watching it for entertainment would move on to watch some saas-bahu crap on Hum TV. (yeah, I don't like the entertainment we have)

I don't think they're watching it for entertainment value. That was my entire point.

 

[Asimzranger]

I will just say it's good alternative to all of Hollywood and netflix. I am at season 2 and watch one episode once a week. But yes historically its romanticized.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

And actually a lot of ''historical shows and movies'' are not accurate and they mostly involve political and propaganda purposes in every bit of them, with this in mind, why are you bothering yourself with this show? It's just a show...

 

[jaibi]

You stated yourself that the production value is extremely high. Have a look at our numbers online or otherwise. Most pakistanis consume material for entertainment rather than education or information.

I don't think they're watching it for entertainment value. That was my entire point.

 

[Lincoln]

Our people are already not willing to explore other forms of entertainment. If they're watching something other than Desi Dramas, I'd welcome it. In my view, the historicisity of the show is far removed from people's minds. Those who are conservative would read that conservatism into any and everything that they see and vice versa. Even if it was being very stringently accurate. So, don't really think it'd be a problem.

I don't know. I am just concerned for the show's effect on majority since Islam and Ottoman Caliphate is very important for Pakistani people. I personally think Pakistani people are very, very easily delusional, and the biggest proof of that is Youtube channels out there like Haqeeqat TV with millions of subscribers, who start with Bismillah and then begin their stream of nonsensical lies... and people actually believe with 100% certainty.

You stated yourself that the production value is extremely high. Have a look at our numbers online or otherwise. Most pakistanis consume material for entertainment rather than education or information.

I don't think they're consuming it for education or information but for a religious thrill, and that will motivate other subtleties.

And actually a lot of ''historical shows and movies'' are not accurate and they mostly involve political and propaganda purposes in every bit of them, with this in mind, why are you bothering yourself with this show?

Because of how it might influence opinion of people, I don't think it is good. Anyways, I said what I think I needed to say, my points are summarized in 2nd post.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I'm a conservative guy but also I'm anti-Erdogan, I believe in real secularism (but not in that liberalism crap) because It's one of the basic values of Islam. To me, Ataturk's six basic principles are only way to glory. He's neither a British agent nor a Jesus-like figure; he's just one of the greatest Turkish leaders Just like Mehmed II, Bayezid the first or Selim the Grim. He saved a nation which was destined to fall... We could've very well become like the Arab nations or the rest of the muslim world, no offense to others but there's a real reason why we are still the thoughest muslim nation while we still went through a lot of disasters for the past 400 years. We were never occupied but we still went through a lot which no other nation or state would still be around if they faced the same conditions... Again, I'm not like those slaves of the west who hide behind Ataturk's name and don't care about his values. If Ataturk was alive today, he would spit on their faces as they have become his enemies' puppets... Afterall, I care about Islamic values but I also try to understand Ataturk's ideas and struggles...

The video below is a must watch for everybody... (There's an English subtitle as well)

Ataturk was a muslim, but he also drank alcohol. He banned the religious clothing and he abolished the caliphate for a reason. If he never have done that, we would've basically become like Iran... Remember people, there's still a crescent in our flag and if you take your head out of the window, you can still hear the call to prayer everyday...

And when it comes to the show, there's no need to bother yourself with these brother, just try to enjoy the show. There are many non-Turkish fans of the Magnificent Century show but it's nnot historical accurate too, it's broadcasted across the world including Europe but no one cares about it being historically accurate. I understand your point but my advice is just try to not care about it...
By the way, I've always wondered, which city are you in brother?