Diplomatic row jeopardizes $1.5B helicopter deal between Turkey and Pakistan

[Cobra Arbok]

You heard wrong. Iran is still exporting oil to India and will continue to do so.
Pakistan however a lap dog of US and saudi do not officially import oil from Iran

Not to mention, India got a waiver for the s-400

 

[Inception-06]

The same already happened with the Turkish missile boat, they were delivered without the anti-ship missile, Pakistan should not have accepted these naked products!

 

[SirHatesALot]

Sanctions on this deal is highly unlikely.

 

[AbuzarIlyas]

Caretaker Minister for Defense Lt Gen (r) Naeem Khalid Lodhi's today's statement regarding US-Pak relations is an alarm for us about the threats approaching us in a year or two. Pakistan should immediately decrease the percentage of defense cooperation with Americans.

Maybe threats can do something for us but sanction prone equipment can limit our capabilities in the future. It is the time to do things in "azaad" way. All non-career ambassadors are returning. We should work on these things in a complete new way. New rules of business should be made to tackle the threats. Maybe, the differences in European countries with US over trade agreements can help us but we should get technologies and absorb them in our military industrial complex to get sovereignty.

Military and economic sanctions are America's last weapons which they can use. It is our trick to create the alternative.

 

[BHarwana]

A little info please USA cannot effect this deal because this deal has nothing to do with Turkey and USA. This deal has too many brokers in between USA supplies engines to Italy who has a deal with Turkey. Please first see how things work.

USA don't sell the engines to Turkey but USA sells them to Augusta Westland Italy. Augusta has given tot to Turkey for $3 billion and if USA stops the supply Italy has to provide the engine and the company manufacturing the engines is Canadian under tot from USA. This is a not so easy for USA to sanction this deal.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This was yet another silly mistake made by Pakistani military as always. They never bloody learn.

I really hope the deal is cancelled and the Pakistan goes for Chinese / Russian helicopters.

(Can't go around buying weapons critical for national security just to look like good brother).

Turkey is our strong ally and all-weather friend. Turkey is also the only country who supported us against FATF. You want to throw all that away?

Pakistan, Turkish, and Iranian ties should deepen independent of what any other country thinks. Unity among Muslim nations is a must.

 

[BHarwana]

When USA Senate wanted to sanction F-35 Mattis said not giving F35 to Turkey will delay the project by 2 years because Turkey manufactures many parts of F-35 so this is not as easy as people think.

 

[Kakaspai]

Turkey is our strong ally and all-weather friend. Turkey is also the only country who supported us against FATF. You want to throw all that away?

Pakistan, Turkish, and Iranian ties should deepen independent of what any other country thinks. Unity among Muslim nations is a must.

Pakistanis need to remember even china backed off because they didn't wanted to waste their vote.Turkey stoodby Pakistan

 

[Hassan Guy]

Pakistanis need to remember even china backed off because they didn't wanted to waste their vote.Turkey stoodby Pakistan

you know in their defence, Pakistan really isn't one of the easiest countries in the world to defend

 

[Basel]

ANKARA, Turkey — An escalating diplomatic crisis between NATO allies Turkey and the United States may risk suspending a $1.5 billion deal between Turkey and Pakistan for the sale of 30 Turkish-made T129 ATAK helicopter gunships.

The T129 is being produced by Turkish Aerospace Industries under license from the Italian-British company AgustaWestland.

“The problem is related with the U.S.-made parts for which TAI will need U.S. export licenses in order to materialize the deal,” a Turkish aerospace official said.

The T129, based on its predecessor A129 Mangusta, is a twin-engine multirole attack helicopter. The T129 is powered by two LHTEC T800-4A turboshaft engines. Each engine can produce 1,014 kilowatts of output power. The T800-4A is an export version of the CTS800 engine. LHTEC is a joint venture between the American firm Honeywell and the British company Rolls-Royce.

“Apparently we shall need U.S. export licenses to go ahead with the T129 deal,” a senior procurement official said. “This is not a technological or financial matter but is purely political at the moment.”

Washington has sanctioned two Turkish ministers, and U.S. President Donald Trump pledged to double tariffs on Turkish steel and aluminium exports to his country. Turkey retaliated by sanctioning two U.S. secretaries, but the row has already sparked a financial crisis in Turkey. The Turkish lira has lost 81.5 percent of its value against the U.S. dollar in the year to Aug. 12.

The row significantly deepened after a Turkish court refused to release a U.S. pastor who had been in jail since 2016 on charges of terrorism and attempted to topple Turkey’s elected government. Pastor Andrew Craig Brunson was later released from jail to house arrest, but U.S. officials are demanding his immediate release and return to his homeland.

The two NATO allies also have been at odds over U.S. support for Kurdish militants fighting the Islamic State group in northern Syria, as well as Turkey’s refusal to follow U.S. sanctions on Iran, and Ankara’s decision to deploy the Russian-made S-400 air and anti-missile defense systems on Turkish soil.

“This is a commercial deal (with Pakistan) with a country that has friendly relations with America. For Washington what matters should be the recipient of the systems, not who produces it and if relations are bumpy with the producer country,” a Turkish defense official said. “Why should the Americans punish Pakistan for their disagreements with Turkey?”

A TAI official said a U.S. embargo on the chopper deal was unlikely because it would also hurt a U.S. company as well as two British companies and one Italian. “These are not enemy producers,” he said. “They are on the ally side. And we (TAI) are not being sanctioned by the U.S. or any other ally country.”

A U.S. diplomat in Ankara refused to comment.

Turkey and Pakistan signed a deal July 13 for 30 T129 ATAK helicopter gunships. Pakistani officials say their own AH-1F Cobra gunships lack the capability to perform adequately over the higher altitudes of the Hindu Kush mountain range separating Afghanistan and Pakistan.

In 2016, Pakistani officials thoroughly tested the T129 and endorsed the deal.

LHTEC’s T129 engine also powers the 12 AH−1Z Viper attack helicopters ordered from the U.S. These are yet to be delivered, and such a timescale remains unclear in view of present U.S.-Pakistani bilateral relations.

To finance one of the country’s largest defense and aerospace export contracts, Turkey offered Pakistan a $1.5 billion credit line in 2017, but the deal’s payment terms are unknown.

“President Trump is not always predictable. … He may wish to punish Turkey by sabotaging such a critical export contract at a time when the Turkish economy is badly ailing. At the same time he may also wish to give a message to the Pakistanis,” according to a European defense attache in Ankara.

Most recently, Congress took another step toward banning the delivery of the F-35 stealth fighter jet to Turkey after the House and Senate agreed to a compromised text to a defense spending bill. The two chambers agreed to prohibit delivery of any F-35s to Turkey until the Pentagon submits a plan that assesses the impact of expelling Turkey from the Joint Strike Fighter program of which Turkey is a partner. The assessment should come within 90 days of the text becoming law.


https://www.defensenews.com/global/...tm_campaign=Socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com

Hmm, worst case scenario is Z-10 or Mi-28N replacing current order.

 

[Kakaspai]

you know in their defence, Pakistan really isn't one of the easiest countries in the world to defend

No hard feelings for China.But still this was a good gesture by the Turks.

 

[SQ8]

This was an expected byproduct of getting the ATAK as its a fairly sophisticated machine that still used a lot of US made components(for that matter so does the SAAB erieye, C-130, Radars and every radio in Pakistan)
But, the issue here is that Pakistan is an unwitting casualty in a third country dispute.. a better word for it is just bad luck rather than the idiotic accusations flying around.

In the end; one needs to accept how much US manufacturing affects the world and why it is impossible to go without US input.

Try building a single modern radar without a US designed or US produced digital signal processor.

ARMs, DSPs, FPGAs all come from US based manufacturers; the chinese havent been able to clone a single one of these which arent prone to failures.
@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[MastanKhan]

This was yet another silly mistake made by Pakistani military as always. They never bloody learn.

I really hope the deal is cancelled and the Pakistan goes for Chinese / Russian helicopters.

(Can't go around buying weapons critical for national security just to look like good brother).

Hi,

Thank you for your post----.

There is never an end to bad decisions by the Pak military---. The sanctiosn were obvious---.

where are those idiots on this board who maintained that nothing would happen between Turkey and USA---.

 

[Super Falcon]

Turkey dont need any approval this technology bought from italy attack helicopter program

Dont bring false news

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

Thank you for your post----.

There is never an end to bad decisions by the Pak military---. The sanctiosn were obvious---.

where are those idiots on this board who maintained that nothing would happen between Turkey and USA---.

Actually nothing might still happen. The relationship between the military industrial complex of both countries is strong enough and their lobbies invested enough that they might end up prevailing over the current spat.
Profit wins over emotions in the US anytime, the Saudis are great examples of it. Even now negotiations are underway to purchase equipment from the US directly for our military and while the current administration (more importantly its US born NRI members) are in the way, all it takes is one executive whispering to Trump and it gets released(or just have Fox&Friends say it)

Turkey dont need any approval this technology bought from italy attack helicopter program

Dont bring false news

It’s not false, the design may have been bought from Italy but over 30-40% of the items in it ranging from big ticket ones like the engine to smaller electronic components are procured from abroad.

Our Babur is an “indigenous” design right? Except that Babur uses a US designed chip manufactured in their Chinese division for guidance, A camera from Europe I think and other little bits and pieces that land from all over the world.