Did we shoot our own passenger plane?

[OCguy]

What are the chances he won't go back on his words after 3 days?

The same chances that anyone would believe if he did.

 

[El Sidd]

The same chances that anyone would believe if he did.

I would rather wait 3 more days

 

[OCguy]

I would rather wait 3 more days

This never makes sense to me. I am friends with mostly Persian-Americans, almost all successful and intelligent.

I also understand what ferverent Nationalism can do to the logical part of the human brain. But the level of outright refusal to believe anything other than "we good, they evil", and even the rare admission of fault by your named officials..is perplexing.
I'm not questioning your reasoning for hating the US. I'm wondering why you can't hate the US, love your homeland, but make honest assessments.

Oh well.

 

[El Sidd]

This never makes sense to me. I am friends with mostly Persian-Americans, almost all successful and intelligent.

I also understand what ferverent Nationalism can do to the logical part of the human brain. But the level of outright refusal to believe anything other than "we good, they evil", and even the rare admission of fault by your named officials..is perplexing.
I'm not questioning your reasoning for hating the US. I'm wondering why you can't hate the US, love your homeland, but make honest assessments.

Oh well.

Pride and Prejudice

 

[OCguy]

Pride and Prejudice

Didn't expect that answer, but it confirms that you are intelligent, as suspected.

Unfortunately those two traits you mentioned are possessed by all of us to varying degrees.

 

[Kastor]

This never makes sense to me. I am friends with mostly Persian-Americans, almost all successful and intelligent.

I also understand what ferverent Nationalism can do to the logical part of the human brain. But the level of outright refusal to believe anything other than "we good, they evil", and even the rare admission of fault by your named officials..is perplexing.
I'm not questioning your reasoning for hating the US. I'm wondering why you can't hate the US, love your homeland, but make honest assessments.

Oh well.

What you describe is present in every armed forces around the world....do you have any idea how many innocent people were killed by US forces in Iraq? Did anyone go to jail for that? No! Only the Abu Gharib perpetrators only 2 were sent to jail....one for 2 the other for 3. Also, look at Israel...they've got soldiers on video shooting unarmed civilians...did they ever prosecute any of them? Hell no!
In any case Iran's armed forces are no different than all the other ones......being prideful and trigger happy is par for the course. In my opinion Iran did the right thing....they came clean and apologized after the investigation concluded what happened. No doubt the president and FM pushed for the truth, the armed forces denied any wrong doing at first....but they eventually had to admit to Rouhani what happened. Shameful that the level of professionalism is so low, by professionalism I mean leadership and training....this is first and foremost a leadership failure, then a training failure......I hope they use this tragedy as an opportunity to clean up their act.

When you take such actions such as firing missiles at U.S. bases, I hope you've got a comprehensive list of preparations before you took those actions. You draw up likely scenarios of enemy reprisal attacks. You issues NOTAM, you inform military hospitals and clinics, supply meds and blood banks and even maybe issue Marshall law to keep the public off the street....etc...etc.

 

[Stryker1982]

Hajizadeh is in big trouble having to explain why his forces made such a mistake.

 

[OCguy]

What you describe is present in every armed forces around the world....do you have any idea how many innocent people were killed by US forces in Iraq? Did anyone go to jail for that? No! Only the Abu Gharib perpetrators only 2 were sent to jail....one for 2 the other for 3. Also, look at Israel...they've got soldiers on video shooting unarmed civilians...did they ever prosecute any of them? Hell no!
In any case Iran's armed forces are no different than all the other ones......being prideful and trigger happy is par for the course. In my opinion Iran did the right thing....they came clean and apologized after the investigation concluded what happened. No doubt the president and FM pushed for the truth, the armed forces denied any wrong doing at first....but they eventually had to admit to Rouhani what happened. Shameful that the level of professionalism is so low, by professionalism I mean leadership and training....this is first and foremost a leadership failure, then a training failure......I hope they use this tragedy as an opportunity to clean up their act.

When you take such actions such as firing missiles at U.S. bases, I hope you've got a comprehensive list of preparations before you took those actions. You draw up likely scenarios of enemy reprisal attacks. You issues NOTAM, you inform military hospitals and clinics, supply meds and blood banks and even maybe issue Marshall law to keep the public off the street....etc...etc.

Abu Gharib? Torture is the norm in the region, and barking dogs and nude humiliation was a religious humiliation, not exactly an Assad or Jordanian prison.

But to use a more appropriate example, the long lasting damage in Falluja by using Depleted Uranium tank shells makes me sick. I've seen the images, the birth defects. It was unnecessary to achieve victory, and has persistent DNA splicing consequences for civilians who were surrounded by death. It was a crime.

I can do the same breakdown for almost any relevant armed force that has engaged in combat. And I can still name more positive contributions to countries that have been taught to hate me than anyone would do for us.

 

[PeeD]

As I said on my first take on that issue...

I just would like to know who was resonsible to allow flights to go on after the strike: Goverment or military.

Heads need to roll at the right places.

 

[Kastor]

Abu Gharib? Torture is the norm in the region, and barking dogs and nude humiliation was a religious humiliation, not exactly an Assad or Jordanian prison.

But to use a more appropriate example, the long lasting damage in Falluja by using Depleted Uranium tank shells makes me sick. I've seen the images, the birth defects. It was unnecessary to achieve victory, and has persistent DNA splicing consequences for civilians who were surrounded by death. It was a crime.

I can do the same breakdown for almost any relevant armed force that has engaged in combat. And I can still name more positive contributions to countries that have been taught to hate me than anyone would do for us.

Don't fool yourself, the U.S. is no longer the same U.S. that sent the Doughboys to save the Belgians from the Huns, nor the same U.S. that sent soldiers to make the world safe for democracy in the 40's. The U.S. has been behind more strife, more deaths, more suffering than any other nation since then. ISIS and Al Qaeda are U.S. handiwork....unintentional but nevertheless. Red Cross report 600,000 civilians, that's men, women and children have died due to the WMD lie and subsequent invasion.......Millions were rendered homeless....2 million people are refugees, and that's only Iraq, if you count Syria and Afghanistan, then you know who the real terrorist of the world is....So thank you for your service!

 

[TheImmortal]

This never makes sense to me. I am friends with mostly Persian-Americans, almost all successful and intelligent.

I also understand what ferverent Nationalism can do to the logical part of the human brain. But the level of outright refusal to believe anything other than "we good, they evil", and even the rare admission of fault by your named officials..is perplexing.
I'm not questioning your reasoning for hating the US. I'm wondering why you can't hate the US, love your homeland, but make honest assessments.

Oh well.

Supreme Leader has said 1000 times “death to America” is in regards to the government and imperialistic policies of the United States. He has said we do not hate the US or it’s people.

So very few people in Iran truly “hate” the US. In fact it has polled as the most favorable US loving people outside of Israel.

 

[mohsen]

It's logic not propaganda

Finally....anyone with any brains could have connected the dots, regardless of what the video showed. I'm heartbroken. I am also angry at the level of incompetence. Lastly, I blame Mr. Pompeo and Kushner for orchestrating this tragedy upon our nation.

Certainly no missile fragments were found in crashing location, afterall plane has continued it's path for several kilometers.

There were no intention of hiding anything, yet this delay in sharing information is not justifiable.

 

[OCguy]

Supreme Leader has said 1000 times “death to America” is in regards to the government and imperialistic policies of the United States. He has said we do not hate the US or it’s people.

So very few people in Iran truly “hate” the US. In fact it has polled as the most favorable US loving people outside of Israel.

I was referring to the obvious hardliners here, who generally dont represent the average Iranian. But I was weeks away from a travel Visa helped by someone here before relations imploded again. (Early 2010s).

Don't fool yourself, the U.S. is no longer the same U.S. that sent the Doughboys to save the Belgians from the Huns, nor the same U.S. that sent soldiers to make the world safe for democracy in the 40's. The U.S. has been behind more strife, more deaths, more suffering than any other nation since then. ISIS and Al Qaeda are U.S. handiwork....unintentional but nevertheless. Red Cross report 600,000 civilians, that's men, women and children have died due to the WMD lie and subsequent invasion.......Millions were rendered homeless....2 million people are refugees, and that's only Iraq, if you count Syria and Afghanistan, then you know who the real terrorist of the world is....So thank you for your service!

I just demonstrated I know history. But where you and I differ, is that while I fault Paul Bremmer for disbanding the military and deba'athification, not every death following that is the fault of the US.

Sectarian/salafist extremists are responsible for their actions, no body else.

 

[Ich]

So sad

 

[Blue In Green]

This has been a horrible couple weeks for Iran hasn't it? Putting nationalism/partisanship aside, the amount of Iranian civilians that died directly/indirectly due to Soleimani's killing is well into the hundreds. There must be lessons learned from this event that prevent or at the very least mitigate such loss in innocent life. Canadian-Iranian, Ukrainian, whatever nationality or ethnicity, this is just a horrible look for Iran right now and even more terrible for those directly efffected. Tough times is truly an understatement, still proud of my heritage but I have to call a spade a spade.

Jesus......what the hell happened, one idiot American president and we get such a horrible set of events unfold in such quick succession. Iran REALLY needs to reprioritize itself and learn valuable lessons from this event so that when the future war breaks out (which is still a strong possibility) it can preform better in war-time situations.

Hope there is some sort of silver lining in all this carnage, getting tired of all this racket to be completely honest.

Sincerest and most heartfelt love to all the victims and their families, I hope they find the courage to get through this hard time. There really isn't much Iran can do to soothe their suffering unfortunately, this is a massive **** up by Iran, don't mean to curse but I don't know how else to put it. Takes me back to when I held my grandfathers hand when he passed away, it's a weird feeling to know a loved one is gone, doesn't really hit you until it hits you....

The air-space in and around Tehran should have closed hours prior to the missile strikes at the U.S. airbase.

We can expect America and others to use this against Iran to its fullest but that's neither here nor there at this present time.

Pray for the victims, and it does need to be said. Heads need to roll over this...