Did this female flashmob in Lahore send the wrong message about empowerment?

[SQ8]

Just ask yourself would you be ok with hand chopping and banning of certain haitstyles thats what happens when certain folks are allowed to frame laws

It is irrelevant what I am ok with. See, the problem with Pakistan(and Turkey and most middle eastern nations) is that the Military kept itself in power by giving a face of these rabid barbarians as "Its either us or them". Hence, democracy never really thrived properly. It was always manipulated and kept in check.

Religious Right wingers exist because there is an entire class of people who have no other identity, no other skillset and no other positive contribution to society besides looking at other people's lives from a religious lens and venting their frustration at the ills of society by trying to reform these people under what they believe is the guideline of religion.

The saddest element is not that Islam does not provide excellent basic foundations for a good society; but that none of these religious extremists like those on this board and elsewhere have been able to provide a single logical interpretation of those guidelines the same way the Prophet did for his society as an example. Their entire thesis is built upon how the Prophet did it rather than why and for what. To support their argument they have CTRL-C and CTRL-V built into their brains where they'll bring up piecemeal translations, or simplistic conclusions that may be good for Shakeel Raja working in the fields of South Punjab but are dismally useless for the actual running of society from top to bottom. I wont even consider them laughably good to the state.

In a sad way, these people are a blot of mud on the beautiful pillar of Islamic history.

 

[Zibago]

It is irrelevant what I am ok with. See, the problem with Pakistan(and Turkey and most middle eastern nations) is that the Military kept itself in power by giving a face of these rabid barbarians as "Its either us or them". Hence, democracy never really thrived properly. It was always manipulated and kept in check.

Religious Right wingers exist because there is an entire class of people who have no other identity, no other skillset and no other positive contribution to society besides looking at other people's lives from a religious lens and venting their frustration at the ills of society by trying to reform these people under what they believe is the guideline of religion.

The saddest element is not that Islam does not provide excellent basic foundations for a good society; but that none of these religious extremists like those on this board and elsewhere have been able to provide a single logical interpretation of those guidelines the same way the Prophet did for his society as an example. Their entire thesis is built upon how the Prophet did it rather than why and for what. To support their argument they have CTRL-C and CTRL-V built into their brains where they'll bring up piecemeal translations, or simplistic conclusions that may be good for Shakeel Raja working in the fields of South Punjab but are dismally useless for the actual running of society from top to bottom. I wont even consider them laughably good to the state.

In a sad way, these people are a blot of mud on the beautiful pillar of Islamic history.

Blaming military for all ills is like blaming jews for our faults we as a society ha e huge issues no matter for how long you have democracy

Some hypocrites will go our values on issues like that amd bigot on Burkini bans i mean if you really believe in individual freedom than respect it and dont be a hypocrite

 

[SQ8]

Blaming military for all ills is like blaming jews for our faults we as a society ha e huge issues no matter for how long you have democracy

Some hypocrites will go our values on issues like that amd bigot on Burkini bans i mean if you really believe in individual freedom than respect it and dont be a hypocrite

The military is just part of the problem, but it is a major contributor to extremist ideals since it lets them fester as a counterweight to their "secular" outlook. Zia's whole existence was built on scaring the US that if he left the Islamists would take over.

On a side note, there are accounts that state Zia as a closet moderate who was infact letting the religious nutjobs take power so that they irk society so bad that when the Army comes for them and massacres them; no one raises an eyebrow.

If there was an iota of chance(highly unlikely) that this was true; then Zia's death was truly a massive loss for Pakistan

 

[Zibago]

The military is just part of the problem, but it is a major contributor to extremist ideals since it lets them fester as a counterweight to their "secular" outlook. Zia's whole existence was built on scaring the US that if he left the Islamists would take over.

And Islamist predate zia he just gave people what they craved

 

[Parmanu]

Lust. Jesus got it way down on the list thinking humanity has grown up. Just the mistake propaganda movie makers of hollywood decided on when they went about makers movies about 2015. Making them in 1970s and 1980s.

Or was it moses?

Best part, i DON'T EVEN WANT TO SEE THAT VIDEO, NOT SEE IT EITHER.

like that chick. Lovely.

 

[RAMPAGE]

It is irrelevant what I am ok with. See, the problem with Pakistan(and Turkey and most middle eastern nations) is that the Military kept itself in power by giving a face of these rabid barbarians as "Its either us or them". Hence, democracy never really thrived properly. It was always manipulated and kept in check.

Religious Right wingers exist because there is an entire class of people who have no other identity, no other skillset and no other positive contribution to society besides looking at other people's lives from a religious lens and venting their frustration at the ills of society by trying to reform these people under what they believe is the guideline of religion.

The saddest element is not that Islam does not provide excellent basic foundations for a good society; but that none of these religious extremists like those on this board and elsewhere have been able to provide a single logical interpretation of those guidelines the same way the Prophet did for his society as an example. Their entire thesis is built upon how the Prophet did it rather than why and for what. To support their argument they have CTRL-C and CTRL-V built into their brains where they'll bring up piecemeal translations, or simplistic conclusions that may be good for Shakeel Raja working in the fields of South Punjab but are dismally useless for the actual running of society from top to bottom. I wont even consider them laughably good to the state.

In a sad way, these people are a blot of mud on the beautiful pillar of Islamic history.

I would love to read a homily written by you on how Islam provides excellent basic foundations for a good society. And are you sure about the last part of your comment? What period of Islamic history do you talk of and how was it beautiful? I didn't take you for that kind of romantic, Oscar.

 

[SQ8]

I would love to read a homily written by you on how Islam provides excellent basic foundations for a good society. And are you sure about the last part of your comment? What period of Islamic history do you talk of and how was it beautiful? I didn't take you for that kind of romantic, Oscar.

Sure, Ill do a write up and you can read about.
As for the periods of Islam, a slight read up on history would give you the idea of how for a large part of recent history; Islamic civilizations represented the best of humanity. Romanticism has nothing to do with it. Read up a western source if that satisfies your needs.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Sure, Ill do a write up and you can read about.
As for the periods of Islam, a slight read up on history would give you the idea of how for a large part of recent history; Islamic civilizations represented the best of humanity. Romanticism has nothing to do with it. Read up a western source if that satisfies your needs.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Sure, Ill do a write up and you can read about.
As for the periods of Islam, a slight read up on history would give you the idea of how for a large part of recent history; Islamic civilizations represented the best of humanity. Romanticism has nothing to do with it. Read up a western source if that satisfies your needs.

Please do that. Otherwise, you're just encouraging clueless romantics. (or holier-than-thou Bracket-Pakistanis, as one of our mutual friends would put it)

You'll have to be a little more specific. Which Islamic civilizations and what periods?

Edited: The finger-pointing was not in good taste. My apologies.

 

[SQ8]

Please do that. Otherwise, you're just encouraging clueless romantics. (or holier-than-thou Bracket-Pakistanis, as one of our mutual friends would put it)

You'll have to be a little more specific. Which Islamic civilizations and what periods?

Edited: The finger-pointing was not in good taste. My apologies.

The holier than thou will be encouraged nonetheless. Their romanticism has to do with the current state of Pakistani society with regards to common ills such as corruption, lawlessness etc etc and their belief that somehow Islam will solve it. It does not matter how Islam will solve it but just that it will. That ignorance on their part is desperation but it leads to them being hateful, intolerant and so on and so forth in increasing evils which they will justify in their attempt to gain this "peace" of the utopia they want.

 

[war&peace]

Please do that. Otherwise, you're just encouraging clueless romantics. (or holier-than-thou Bracket-Pakistanis, as one of our mutual friends would put it)

You'll have to be a little more specific. Which Islamic civilizations and what periods?

Edited: The finger-pointing was not in good taste. My apologies.

Sir no problem but these post # 70, 97, 205 and 207 would disagree with you Thanks for considering me romantic...really you would have made my day if you were a member of fair gender (from planet venus)

I have my opinion and I confront if someone has totally different opinion or saying something not factual regardless of anyone. But if I find someone well balanced...I'm not stingy in expressing my liking.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Think of the issue this way: It is up to the individual to decide upon their course of action. A liberal merely defends this right for every one, equally, whether it is Individual A or B, or their mothers or sisters. And there is no hypocrisy in this at all.

So the answer to your question "we agree with your position on this, so how about we pay X amount of dollars so that we become your daughters first customers?" is that the (adult) daughter has the right to decide. And of course the other party can make the same offer to your daughter - to let her decide.

See how that works?

Since we're talking empowerment of women in this thread, lets take your argument in that framework. Now going by your definition, ideally a liberal will defend the ideology of "live and let live".. Except ofcourse when

-Erin Pizzey established the first domestic violence shelter in the modern world, but refused to go by the narrative of the feminists that domestic violence is a one way street where men are abusing women. When she refused and stood for the fact (has been proven through research) that DV is reciprocal. The same liberal feminists, whose mantra is to "live and let live" and "equality for all" were the ones calling in bomb threats to Erin's seminars. Someone shot her pet dog during this period of harassment. She had to live in exile thanks to all this harassment by the very same liberal ideology group that believes in "empowering women" ..

-Let's look at the MRA's a movement for boys and men. Ideally liberals should be respectful of their opinion and let them live ... right ? Except we see fire alarms being pulled on regular basis, violent protests etc. You can view the following video as a proof for that ...

Basically, the "live and let live" mantra is all okay unless ofcourse when someone disagrees with the liberal positions on certain issues, then the gloves are off and everything is fair game ..

As far as the comment about the daughter goes, it was simply put to show that when the same principles are applied to the liberals they don't exactly fare too well, and although it's easy to say that " the daughter has the right to decide" it doesn't exactly go that way and we both know that. In the heat of the moment even prominent progressive liberals loose all their cool and stoop down to the same things that they are against "in theory"
I remember a few days ago, I was on youtube and landed on a video. Now in this video, the popular channel " the young turks" were doing a segment on one of the conventoions. In came Alex Jones from the infowars and he just came in the frame, and although he tried to hijack the show, there was no aggressive physical contact or yelling by him. Well not atleast at the start. I've nothing against these guys (the young turks), in fact I think some of their videos are actually good.

However when the chips were down and it was time to show the liberal values Ana Kasparian who I think also holds a teaching position in a university in addition to her presentation job, well she is very vocal on the issue of fat shaming etc. But when it was time to show those values in a confrontation. All the values went out the door and she calls that guy a "fat f*ck" .. Similarly, the same liberals progressives that talk about freedom of expression, in this case Jimmy dore, goes out his way and spits on Alex.

So the point is while you can point to one generic statement, which not many people would have a problem with -- in practicality "live and let live" is only a myth. It's simply your version of morality versus mine with strong arguments on both sides and when it's clutch time, nothings off limits...

 

[wiseone2]

Once again people with money are using Female body to attract some people to earn big business under the color full banner of ''Female equality'' ''Freedom of expression''. And most people are willing to protect this decision just because they know that it will annoy right handed thinkers.

I just hope some company making under garments of men & women shall not follow this foot steps.

Its not Pakistan culture, its not Islamic teaching, its not Civilization of Indus.




Its not India buddy. its Pakistan. We follow boundaries of Morals.

in what way is pakistan more moral than India ? or pakistanis for that matter

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Dear God, after seeing this video, I must say it was a cringe fest. I literally felt embarrassed. I have no idea what these retarded ladies were trying to do or what was the point.

 

[wiseone2]

Grass is greener on the other side.

could not agree more