Did the USSR really intend to attack Pakistan?

[ptldM3]

facts are facts , it is a fact that PAKISTAN was next target after afghanistan.

And where are those facts? You do realize that the Soviet military was given orders not to engage Pakistani forces? You also realize that the Soviet military had full control of Afghanistan from day one correct? Every major town and city was under Soviet control, air ports, fuel depots and other strategic value targets were under Soviet control. The Soviet Union had entire Armies in Afghanistan, there was nothing stopping the Soviets from making a push into Pakistan. If the Soviet wished they could have assembled the largest army in history on the Pakistani border and simply rolled in to Pakistani.

 

[notorious_eagle]

It was based on lies, the soviets never intended to invade or attack Pakistan.

We cant say with certainty whether they wanted to invade Pakistan or not, but there is enough evidence that the Soviets wanted access to the warm waters. Pakistan was the shortest route for them to reach the warm waters so naturally you can expect Pakistani planners to be fearful of the Soviet presence.

Regardless whether they wanted to invade Pakistan or not, the presence of the Soviet 40th Army in Afghanistan was bad enough for our war planners. Think it from a strategic point of view, we are facing a huge enemy on our Eastern borders and now the Mighty Soviet 40th Army is present on our Western borders. We were sandwiched from both sides, encircled and from a war fighting point of view that is the worst thing that can happen. Our relations with the Soviets were never the best due to Ayub's policies, it was quite natural of us to support the rebels to force the Soviets out of Afghanistan so we could have secure Western borders. As much as i hate Zia, i tend to agree with his policy of forcing the Soviets out of Afghanistan. If the Soviets had a stable Afghanistan and they decided to reach the warm waters of Pakistan, there was nothing we could do to stop their Mighty 40th Army.

 

[Garry]

We cant say with certainty whether they wanted to invade Pakistan or not, but there is enough evidence that the Soviets wanted access to the warm waters. Pakistan was the shortest route for them to reach the warm waters so naturally you can expect Pakistani planners to be fearful of the Soviet presence.

Regardless whether they wanted to invade Pakistan or not, the presence of the Soviet 40th Army in Afghanistan was bad enough for our war planners. Think it from a strategic point of view, we are facing a huge enemy on our Eastern borders and now the Mighty Soviet 40th Army is present on our Western borders. We were sandwiched from both sides, encircled and from a war fighting point of view that is the worst thing that can happen. Our relations with the Soviets were never the best due to Ayub's policies, it was quite natural of us to support the rebels to force the Soviets out of Afghanistan so we could have secure Western borders. As much as i hate Zia, i tend to agree with his policy of forcing the Soviets out of Afghanistan. If the Soviets had a stable Afghanistan and they decided to reach the warm waters of Pakistan, there was nothing we could do to stop their Mighty 40th Army.

nope ..brother you are wrong...soviets never intended to invade pakistan..if they needed warm water they would used this instead of invading pakistan:

...

 

[Sinnerman108]

The soviets never wanted to enter Pakistan

&

The Americans really were after the WMDs in Iraq
&
The Americans went into Libya to free the Libyan people
&
The west invaded Afghanistan for the people of Afghanistan

Blah Blah Blah

 

[Sinnerman108]

The soviets never wanted to enter Pakistan

&

The Americans really were after the WMDs in Iraq
&
The Americans went into Libya to free the Libyan people
&
The west invaded Afghanistan for the people of Afghanistan

Blah Blah Blah

 

[Pride]

for those who saying that's USSR didn't intend to Pakistan, then why did they Attack Afghanistan, my personel thought is after succes in afghanistan The next target for Red Army was Probably Pakistan and Then Iran. Lets hav discuss that...

Do you understand the concept of Communism? Soviet was front runner of Communism in the world like what US is for Democracy. Afghanistan was a Communist regime and they dont want to lose that ground. A similar scenario may be consider as Iraq/Libya where US wants to apply democaracy.

 

[Pride]

And where are those facts? You do realize that the Soviet military was given orders not to engage Pakistani forces? You also realize that the Soviet military had full control of Afghanistan from day one correct? Every major town and city was under Soviet control, air ports, fuel depots and other strategic value targets were under Soviet control. The Soviet Union had entire Armies in Afghanistan, there was nothing stopping the Soviets from making a push into Pakistan. If the Soviet wished they could have assembled the largest army in history on the Pakistani border and simply rolled in to Pakistani.

Exactly, People are so blind to see the truth behind the facts. Pakistan was not a Communist country and USSR had no Plant to imply the same in Pak and if you say that USSR wants to enter to Pak. They can do the same thing when they got to know that Pak with support of CIA is building force of Mujahideen. If Pak thinks that USSR was unable to open war on 2 fronts then they are wrong.

 

[Pride]

I read somewhere that Soviet was considering making India a satellite.. By sending in there Secret service
(KGB) inside India and manipulating the Information flo. THe Soviet Russia was no ones friend IMO and India did good remaining non aligned. The Soviets were already collapsing like America is today. Karma i guess.

Something the Soviets taught America

A very old video i think id share

USSR that time was an ally of India and No doubt KGB paid media to create hype of public to get support of themselves but that happens when the world divides in polar axis. If you study about current petrol war between US an China then same thing is happening in Latin american or African countries. Propaganda is the first tool any secret service agency apply to put its thoughts in front of public. ISI did it for creating Kashmir hype, India/US did for N-deal etc.

Satelite country - No?? If they want us to be satelite country then Tashkant or sending Navy against US in Bay of Bengal during 1971 war are few examples of being frnd or enemy of enemy.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Exactly, People are so blind to see the truth behind the facts. Pakistan was not a Communist country and USSR had no Plant to imply the same in Pak and if you say that USSR wants to enter to Pak. They can do the same thing when they got to know that Pak with support of CIA is building force of Mujahideen. If Pak thinks that USSR was unable to open war on 2 fronts then they are wrong.

The military capability of the Soviet Army has never been questioned, it was extremely feared and that is why Pakistan decided to support the rebels so the Soviets stay busy quelling them down instead of reaching our borders.

 

[Tshering22]

The military capability of the Soviet Army has never been questioned, it was extremely feared and that is why Pakistan decided to support the rebels so the Soviets stay busy quelling them down instead of reaching our borders.

And in the process created a shytestorm for yourself. Soviets didn't want to strike you but you radicalized your entire country and see what's happening today. Russia had its deal of hardships, still retains almost absolute control on former-USSR countries, is a part of BRICS a global economy emerging body, is exporting energy to energy hungry India and China, corruption is much lower than 90s. But see what has become of what your one general created. So much damage in the long run for a war that was not even there between you and Soviets.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

And in the process created a shytestorm for yourself. Soviets didn't want to strike you but you radicalized your entire country and see what's happening today. Russia had its deal of hardships, still retains almost absolute control on former-USSR countries, is a part of BRICS a global economy emerging body, is exporting energy to energy hungry India and China, corruption is much lower than 90s. But see what has become of what your one general created. So much damage in the long run for a war that was not even there between you and Soviets.

Actually , I don't blame the Pakistanis for this one , presence of Soviets in Afghanistan wasn't in Indian interests either. Of course the Soviets themselves didn't want to come into Afghanistan , only of many request from Afghan leadership did they set foot.

 

[Pride]

The military capability of the Soviet Army has never been questioned, it was extremely feared and that is why Pakistan decided to support the rebels so the Soviets stay busy quelling them down instead of reaching our borders.

Pak was not feared by the attack. Pak was ally of US and attack by Soviet on Pak could be a WW3, even a strategic nerd can sense that. Whether you accept or not but Pak became a tool of US during "Cold war" and play ground was "Afghanistan". Rest is Gen Zia and group's propaganda for public.

 

[Solomon2]

We cant say with certainty whether they wanted to invade Pakistan or not, but there is enough evidence that the Soviets wanted access to the warm waters. Pakistan was the shortest route for them -

I have to agree with salman108 here: the Soviets simply didn't have the logistical capability to reach the Indian Ocean (or Arabian Sea) through Pakistan. Soviet vehicles had a maximum unrefueled range of 600km. That means the Soviets would have had to set up supply camps in Pakistan itself - an impossibility for them since Afghanistan had no railways.

A much easier way for the Soviets to reach warm waters would have been to conquer Iran. They had done it before, Iran's transportation infrastructure was comparatively well-developed, and in 1979-80 Iran was on extremely poor terms with the U.S. so there would be few objections - I recall that when I first heard of the Soviet build-up hoping that they would invade Iran and dispose of Khomeini.

Instead the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Senior Soviet diplomats like their Ambassador to the U.S., Dobrynin, immediately grasped that it was an extremely stupid thing to do - the Politburo had fallen into a trap set by the ISI with the blessing of U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski. From then on the political course of events to bleed the Soviet Empire was irresistible.

 

[Desert Fox]

By killing the President who was asking for help and was supportive of USSR? interesting logic!!!

Actually your "logic" is flawed here, how does it make any sense for them to kill someone who was supportive of them? The Soviets weren't stupid as you are describing them to be. Hafizullah Amin was playing a double game with Soviets which is why they killed him.

Although Amin had gained the presidency with Soviet assistance, he refused to follow Soviet advice in dealing with insurgents, trying instead to gain Pakistani or American support. Amin's display of independent nationalism led to an invasion by Soviet troops on December 27, 1979, and to his own death. He was succeeded by Babrak Karmal.

Hafizullah Amin

As for why the Soviets invaded Afghanistan:

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, invasion of Afghanistan in late December 1979 by troops from the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union intervened in support of the Afghan communist government in its conflict with anticommunist Muslim guerrillas during the Afghan War (1978–92) and remained in Afghanistan until mid-February 1989.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (1979) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

At the height of the Soviet Afghan war there were more than 500,000 Red Army soldiers in Afghanistan backed by artillery and air support, if they wanted they could have invaded Pakistan, but they did not because it would be of no benefit to them.

 

[ptldM3]

I have to agree with salman108 here: the Soviets simply didn't have the logistical capability to reach the Indian Ocean (or Arabian Sea) through Pakistan. Soviet vehicles had a maximum unrefueled range of 600km. That means the Soviets would have had to set up supply camps in Pakistan itself - an impossibility for them since Afghanistan had no railways.A much easier way for the Soviets to reach warm waters would have been to conquer Iran. They had done it before, Iran's transportation infrastructure was comparatively well-developed, and in 1979-80 Iran was on extremely poor terms with the U.S. so there would be few objections - I recall that when I first heard of the Soviet build-up hoping that they would invade Iran and dispose of Khomeini.

Instead the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Senior Soviet diplomats like their Ambassador to the U.S., Dobrynin, immediately grasped that it was an extremely stupid thing to do - the Politburo had fallen into a trap set by the ISI with the blessing of U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski. From then on the political course of events to bleed the Soviet Empire was irresistible.

The Soviets had hundred of heavy transport aircraft as well as a large fleet of refueling aircraft. Moreover, the Soviets built roads, bridges, public transportations systems, hospitals, schools, power stations, fuel depots, factories and many other things, but those cave men destroyed everything. The point is that if the Soviets wanted a legistics system they would get it whether it be from the air or ground.