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Did Nehru get Gandhi killed?

pothead

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Lot of questions.

1. Gandhi wanted to disband Congress.
2. Gandhi was a strict believer in Ram Rajya.
3. Gandhi was a believer in Swarajya and hated Western model of governance.
4. Gandhi was against Cow slaughter.
5. Finally by killing Gandhi, Nehru clan could hijack his name and name themselves as Gandhi.

The only person in the whole world who benefited by the death of Gandhi was one and only Nehru.
by 4 bullets, Nehru got rid of one of his greatest obstacles in having his way with free India. He not only ensured his myopic vision was drubbed onto India but also ensures his useless family changed their name as 'Gandhi' and fake themselves for generations to capture Indian psyche.

They Killed Gandhi and claimed his name as their own. It is almost as if murdering someone and eating their heart.
But then the family has done worse on people of India to remain in power. What was one old man's life worth for them?
 
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Interesting twist ... now that RSS (the accused of Gandhi murder) is in power, Nehru is being accused.

Fascists kill Gandhi ..... Fascists take power and claim the Secularist killed Gandhi ... but what was Gandhi?

India may just be heading towards a system change!
 
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Interesting twist ... now that RSS (the accused of Gandhi murder) is in power, Nehru is being accused.

Fascists kill Gandhi ..... Fascists take power and claim the Secularist killed Gandhi ... but what was Gandhi?

India may just be heading towards a system change!

I hope it does. I hope it is one where registered and certified pri*ks like the OP are put into re-education camps.
 
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I hope it does. I hope it is one where registered and certified pri*ks like the OP are put into re-education camps.

What do you think? Will RSS be successful in the system change that the narrative of is coming out in the open?
 
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What do you think? Will RSS be successful in the system change that the narrative of is coming out in the open?

I'm scared. There is a social revolution that is taking place, the replacement of a thin film of people all of the same class, the same background, the same education at the same schools and colleges, the same family relationships - in Calcutta, if you know 300 people, you effectively know the whole of society that matters - and a tight in-group.

What these new people represent is the demographic wave flooding in from the small towns and villages, and bringing their habits and social attitudes with them. They are also in possession of English, which is the criterion for sorting out who matters from who doesn't: Nancy Mitford's U and non-U, or what is otherwise PLU and PLT, People Like Us and People Like Them. They are not bothered about the earlier self-restraint on religion, and are quite blunt about wanting a majoritarian regime, stuff that was unthinkable even a generation ago.

To answer your question, in chess terms, the RSS plays Queen's side openings. They plan ahead decades. They corrupted Gujarat over decades; it was once one of the most Gandhian states, and had brought in, or rather, retained prohibition of alcohol when everybody else had given it up as a silly idea. It was over decades that they propagated their brand of communal poison, and identified and captured the major social groupings (=castes). When Godhra happened, they were very well prepared, not only in terms of having won the elections at state level, but being organised to spread out and kill.

That itself had an impact. Others who had been similarly brainwashed, but were hesitant, saw that the centre and the courts could do nothing about it, or did do nothing about it (there was a BJP government in power at the centre at the time), and that gave them the courage to start making trouble, more than through the small, cowardly incidents, the booing and cat-calling, the offensive remark within earshot, the deliberate neglect of availability of small things that everyone else took for granted, a whole programme of hateful and very petty harrassment.

What had additional impact was their early adoption of social media. It is widely known by now that it is not just a joke about the Chinese: there are fifty-cent people in India, and they all belong to the Sangh Parivar. Nobody else seems to have a similar apparatus. What you see on PDF is a voluntary version of the same. Please look at the age of these terribly aggressive new members, and look at the relatively recently acquired membership of some of them (the old lag who gets kicked out several times a month, and gets back in again on an ID that he had made up years ago). They are the net kiddies, with no views that the RSS has not perfected and put on-line for ready assimilation by less advantaged bhakts.

Will they succeed? No, but the highwater mark has definitely moved higher over the years. When they are thrown out, it will be tougher to erase the damage that they are doing, even as we talk. There is likely to be no return to the days of old, and the general level of discourse is unlikely to return to what we have left behind.

We have to brace for that.
 
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I'm scared. There is a social revolution that is taking place, the replacement of a thin film of people all of the same class, the same background, the same education at the same schools and colleges, the same family relationships - in Calcutta, if you know 300 people, you effectively know the whole of society that matters - and a tight in-group.

What these new people represent is the demographic wave flooding in from the small towns and villages, and bringing their habits and social attitudes with them. They are also in possession of English, which is the criterion for sorting out who matters from who doesn't: Nancy Mitford's U and non-U, or what is otherwise PLU and PLT, People Like Us and People Like Them. They are not bothered about the earlier self-restraint on religion, and are quite blunt about wanting a majoritarian regime, stuff that was unthinkable even a generation ago.

To answer your question, in chess terms, the RSS plays Queen's side openings. They plan ahead decades. They corrupted Gujarat over decades; it was once one of the most Gandhian states, and had brought in, or rather, retained prohibition of alcohol when everybody else had given it up as a silly idea. It was over decades that they propagated their brand of communal poison, and identified and captured the major social groupings (=castes). When Godhra happened, they were very well prepared, not only in terms of having won the elections at state level, but being organised to spread out and kill.

That itself had an impact. Others who had been similarly brainwashed, but were hesitant, saw that the centre and the courts could do nothing about it, or did do nothing about it (there was a BJP government in power at the centre at the time), and that gave them the courage to start making trouble, more than through the small, cowardly incidents, the booing and cat-calling, the offensive remark within earshot, the deliberate neglect of availability of small things that everyone else took for granted, a whole programme of hateful and very petty harrassment.

What had additional impact was their early adoption of social media. It is widely known by now that it is not just a joke about the Chinese: there are fifty-cent people in India, and they all belong to the Sangh Parivar. Nobody else seems to have a similar apparatus. What you see on PDF is a voluntary version of the same. Please look at the age of these terribly aggressive new members, and look at the relatively recently acquired membership of some of them (the old lag who gets kicked out several times a month, and gets back in again on an ID that he had made up years ago). They are the net kiddies, with no views that the RSS has not perfected and put on-line for ready assimilation by less advantaged bhakts.

Will they succeed? No, but the highwater mark has definitely moved higher over the years. When they are thrown out, it will be tougher to erase the damage that they are doing, even as we talk. There is likely to be no return to the days of old, and the general level of discourse is unlikely to return to what we have left behind.

We have to brace for that.

Thanks for a detailed reply.

If one was to draw parallels of religious extremism and intolerance between Pakistan and India, Pakistan experienced armed uprising by small groups whereas the majority of the population remained opposed to such groups. We have also had massive growths in cities due to migration from villages but not seen similar outcome as you've described above in Indian cities.

The point is, this change in India is at grassroot levels and part of the culture of the majority rural population that is demanding a majoritarian rule. It took us a decade to fight the menace with a majority population opposing it, how will India fight it when the majority approves of it!? Chances of success are much higher in India and the region has to brace for that.
 
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Always search for who benefited most from a murder and u will invariably reach the murderer.
There is difference between "specific" and "most" benefit. We also think Zerdari killed Benazir, and apparently he benefited the "most" from the death of Benazir. However, our belief is based on two assumptions:
1) We can see and know what exactly "most" means.
2) We are all knowing people.
Both of these assumptions are not correct.
So the word "most" requires further investigation.
 
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What do you think? Will RSS be successful in the system change that the narrative of is coming out in the open?
they have already changed quite a bit, especially among semi-literate people, tech people and business people... even those who think RSS are extremists, many broadly agree with them(regarding our history, identity, our place in the world).

but then India has always been ruled by upper class elites, the majority(village folks as you call them) were always like this.... as democracy deepens, it was bound to happen.
 
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Thanks for a detailed reply.

If one was to draw parallels of religious extremism and intolerance between Pakistan and India, Pakistan experienced armed uprising by small groups whereas the majority of the population remained opposed to such groups. We have also had massive growths in cities due to migration from villages but not seen similar outcome as you've described above in Indian cities.

The point is, this change in India is at grassroot levels and part of the culture of the majority rural population that is demanding a majoritarian rule. It took us a decade to fight the menace with a majority population opposing it, how will India fight it when the majority approves of it!? Chances of success are much higher in India and the region has to brace for that.

Well, that is a reasonable response, and I envy you the position from which you are saying this. Please consider the situation in these terms:
  1. This is generally a far less violent and arms-laden country than Pakistan. You have to see 'country-made' weaponry made in the illegal arms factories of Bihar with your products out of Darra Adam Khel. There is simply no comparison. So an antipathy that might mean a massacre in Pakistan comes down to vileness of behaviour in India.
  2. Much of the dislike and intolerance is isolated to caste-defined silos. There are certain castes likely to be prone to communal feeling to a greater degree than the rest of society in general. It is precisely those castes that have easier access to 'education' (or the technical training that substitutes for education), consequently, easier access to jobs, and, the final step, the financial buffers to look around and fill the void that seems to overcome them, that drives them to seek their identity in religious labels, or in ethnic groups, or in language groups. Sorry, that was not the final step; the final step was that these sections of society also have had to suffer slowing down of improvements in their material condition and suffered the consequences of a slow-down in the rate of growth, and that powered nearly half the numbers who voted for Modi's party.
  3. I believe that these segments are themselves in a minority when we consider the minorities as defined (Muslim, Christian, Sikh, primarily) and in combination with the Dalit or the tribal. The task is not as easy as they think.
I hope this gives you some clues to the currents and cross-currents within Indian society.
 
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Well it could be true, Neta ji's death also remains a mystery and some people believe Nehru had a hand in it.
 
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Do my posts really deserve negative rating?
Not sure which form of discourse I breached?

I am trying to start a debate. Nay, the debate was already on, started by the liberal eco-system that hindus or RSS was responsible for death of Gandhi.
In fact Rahul Gandhi is now fighting a case in court in the same matter. This repeated targeting of Hindus for death of Gandhi, in spite SC of India clearing them does not rile you sir.

but, I want to start a debate on how Gandhi was in way of Nehru and could have been a target of political assassination deserves a negative rating?
After all I am trying to start a debate of a forum which is meant to debate such topics. Why is Nehru such a holy cow that we can't debate him?

Finally, the most ironical thing of the so called Gandhi's is a small matter of cow slaughter. we all know where Gandhi stood on this matter & more importantly we all know all the self-proclaimed Gandhi's stand on this.
May be they had a "beef" with Gandhi stopping their beef.

All I want to do is debate, at a forum meant to debate such things.

It's a bit of a shock that I get negative ratings for starting a debate & not for the content!

You got a negative rating for the content. Period.

It is an egregious lie based on an RSS website that you reproduced, with not a particle of truth in it. You do not even have the defence of ignorance, as this had been conveyed to you earlier, and you were asked to look up the facts.

Beef had nothing to do with it. Please stop drawing red herrings across the trail.
 
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Well it could be true, Neta ji's death also remains a mystery and some people believe Nehru had a hand in it.

Even when I was a small child, two things never made any sense to me.
The complete absence of reverence to freedom fighters like Bhagath Singh and Bose in our books.

That Nehru was threatened by Bose & perhaps was jealous and insecure as well.

The first "king" of India claimed the throne on the back of lot of back-stabbings.
Even Lannister's would be proud of Chachaji's machinations.
 
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You got a negative rating for the content. Period.

It is an egregious lie based on an RSS website that you reproduced, with not a particle of truth in it. You do not even have the defence of ignorance, as this had been conveyed to you earlier, and you were asked to look up the facts.

Beef had nothing to do with it. Please stop drawing red herrings across the trail.

Sir, the context of the debate is important.

RSS is being attacked for death of Gandhi, in spite of SC ruling otherwise.
Hence, the counter narrative must be argued.

If the liberals do not stand up for RSS while they are being wrongfully maligned for a murder, I believe the liberals should stop getting offended when the counter narrative is being built against Nehru.

you can't hide behind "truth", when you obfuscate the truth that RSS has no hand in Gandhi's death.
That's duplicitous.

FACT: RSS has been cleared by SC regarding Gandhi's death.
FACT: Nehru was never put under the scanner for Gandhi's death.

It's time we did, no matter how uncomfortable the truth.
 
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Even when I was a small child, two things never made any sense to me.
The complete absence of reverence to freedom fighters like Bhagath Singh and Bose in our books.

That Nehru was threatened by Bose & perhaps was jealous and insecure as well.

The first "king" of India claimed the throne on the back of lot of back-stabbings.
Even Lannister's would be proud of Chachaji's machinations.
Nehru openly called Bhagat Singh and Azad Terrorists (heck nehru also has a role in Azad Murder too), he was a perfect british poodle who loved his occasional pat from Ms Mountbatten.
 
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