Did KSA ever invest in Chinese FC31 stealthy fighter during King's visit to China

[帅的一匹]

KSA can get many western systems for its 5th gen bird made by China and EJ-230 with TVC can be one of them.

EJ230 with TVC? Sounds really cool!

 

[Basel]

EJ230 with TVC? Sounds really cool!

That engine is proposed to later blocks of EFT if customer is interested.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

There is nothing about this in our media, but it could be true why not?

During Zhuhai Airshow 2016, we've seen some pics for Saudi military men checking out some Chinese weapons. FC31 was one of them.

As you can see RSAF delegation & the Chinese officials discussing some details about FC31 :

View attachment 393890




That's all I know currently.





You got what you want.

Glad that I was not the only one who could not find any news about this in the media. However Saudi Arabian/Arab media is notoriously inaccurate and bad when they talk about military affairs.

It would be an exciting joint project for sure. I hope that those rumors emerging from China are true.

Not only, this is one of the reasons. With the contract of the Eurofighter Typhoon with BAE System

It was integrated a full ToT to gradually create an aerospace fighter aircraft industry at KSA. At the last moment the English changed the terms of the contract not to make a complete transfer quickly.

Now, we got more with the F-15SA contract that with Eurofighter.

Password Vimeo : AdamaBattlestar

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Quote :

On Track: Middle East Propulsion Company Expands its Product Portfolio

Source: MTU Aero Engines GmbH Nov 15, 2013



Munich, Riyadh, November 15, 2013 – The leading Saudi Arabian engine maintenance company Middle East Propulsion Company has strengthened its position as a provider of military engine maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) services for the whole of the Middle East region. Today, barely four years later after MTU’s acquisition of a 19-percent share in 2009, MEPC’s product portfolio has been continuously extended. The Middle East Propulsion Company has expanded its module maintenance work by winning contracts for the RB199, the engine powering the RSAF Tornado fleet. Furthermore the MRO capability for the PT6 engine installed on the RSAF’s Pilatus PC-9 and PC-21 training aircraft has recently been established and the company is awaiting certification approval for maintenance work on the T56 engine that powers the RSAF fleet of C-130 Hercules. This approval is expected by the first quarter of 2014. As a result the company will be in a position to offer full overhaul services for two additional turboprop engines. In addition to this expansion, MEPC has been awarded with a follow-on contract of the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW220 engines for the Boeing F15 beginning November 2013. This contract was put on tender for the first time and was won by MEPC against strong international competition. The F15 has been the backbone of the company in past years.

“MEPC has a dedicated as well as well-qualified and certified workforce and a highly committed management team, the perfect basis for becoming the leading provider of military maintenance services across the whole of the Middle East,” says Klaus Guenther, Senior Vice President Defense Programs, MTU Aero Engines. “The acquisition of additional programs at MEPC in less than four years represents a tremendous achievement.”

MEPC has ambitious goals for the future and plans to add more programs to its existing portfolio. This includes obtaining a maintenance contract from Eurojet and its partners for the EJ200 engines installed on the RSAF Eurofighter Typhoon fleet. Saudi Arabia has ordered 72 Eurofighter Typhoons, 32 of which have already been delivered, and prospects are good for a follow-on order. MTU contributes the low-pressure and high-pressure compressors and the digital engine control unit (FADEC) to the EJ200 program. Other engines targeted include the General Electric F110-229 for the F15 Fighter, T700 for the UH-60 Black Hawk and AH-64 Apache helicopters operated by the RSAF, and the AGT1500 tank engine built by Honeywell.

Middle East Propulsion Company is based in Riyadh the capital of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and is the major military engine MRO company in the Middle East. By the end of 2013, it will have a workforce of 89 employees and an annual sales volume of more than 60 million U.S. dollars. MEPC is a joint-venture.


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Middle East Propulsion Company (MEPC)

Nop ! Not the F-35 - Reason : Israel -.


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Bro, do you know if there are other options out there which could possibly offer something similar? What about France? Also what is your take on news like this?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...sia-uae-cooperating-fifth-generation-fighter/

http://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/idex-2017-uae-and-russia-to-develop-fighter-jet

 

[帅的一匹]

Glad that I was not the only one who could not find any news about this in the media. However Saudi Arabian/Arab media is notoriously inaccurate and bad when they talk about military affairs.

It would be an exciting joint project for sure. I hope that those rumors emerging from China are true.



Bro, do you know if there are other options out there which could possibly offer something similar? What about France? Also what is your take on news like this?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...sia-uae-cooperating-fifth-generation-fighter/

http://www.thenational.ae/business/economy/idex-2017-uae-and-russia-to-develop-fighter-jet

It's little bit weird, why UAE choose to joint develop a fighter jet with Russia? I mean they are traditional friend?

 

[That Guy]

Doubtful.

The Saudis may be buying Chinese weapons systems, but only because they aren't able to get them from the US. China is a last resort, for them.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

It's little bit weird, why UAE choose to joint develop a fighter jet with Russia? I mean they are traditional friend?

There is no traditional partnership from what I know about. I think this is an attempt to diversify and start new partnership with powerful partners.

Doubtful.

The Saudis may be buying Chinese weapons systems, but only because they aren't able to get them from the US. China is a last resort, for them.

You are wrong. KSA's largest trading partner is China and KSA-China relations are growing on all fronts and also in terms of military cooperation as evidenced by the many new exciting deals signed between the two countries. This relationship dates back to the 1980's. It is true that US weapons systems are the best currently (no doubt about this) but this does not mean that this will be the case forever let alone in the next few decades. China is a rising superpower and it would make a lot of sense for KSA to pursue closer ties with China each year and such a project would be a excellent start and show true commitment. I would not rule it out completely. This is also why relations between KSA and Russia have improved significantly in the past 2 years. The world is changing and KSA (nor anyone else in the region not even Israel) can afford to put all their eggs into one basket (USA).

People in KSA and the Arab world in general have favorable views of China (the ties are also historic and ancient predating Islam) and we look at China as a economic model to follow. Underestimating China, nobody is doing. Unlike peoples views of American foreign policy.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

It would be an exciting joint project for sure. I hope that those rumors emerging from China are true.

It would be very awesome if this is true.

China is known for being more lax when it comes to technology transfer as well. Lots of opportunities here for sure.

 

[帅的一匹]

There is no traditional partnership from what I know about. I think this is an attempt to diversify and start new partnership with powerful partners.



You are wrong. KSA's largest trading partner is China and KSA-China relations are growing on all fronts and also in terms of military cooperation as evidenced by the many new exciting deals signed between the two countries. This relationship dates back to the 1980's. It is true that US weapons systems are the best currently (no doubt about this) but this does not mean that this will be the case forever let alone in the next few decades. China is a rising superpower and it would make a lot of sense for KSA to pursue closer ties with China each year and such a project would be a excellent start and show true commitment. I would not rule it out completely. This is also why relations between KSA and Russia have improved significantly in the past 2 years. The world is changing and KSA (nor anyone else in the region not even Israel) can afford to put all their eggs into one basket (USA).

People in KSA and the Arab world in general have favorable views of China (the ties are also historic and ancient predating Islam) and we look at China as a economic model to follow. Underestimating China, nobody is doing. Unlike peoples views of American foreign policy.

How is the DF21 ballistic deal going? I think KSA need DF21 to replace DF3? That's all round cooperation.

China always hold on to a non interference policy towards Arab world, we somehow feel very close to Saudi Arabians. KSA is the only Country on this planet to whom China sold ballistic missile.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

It would be very awesome if this is true.

China is known for being more lax when it comes to technology transfer as well. Lots of opportunities here for sure.

Pls don't get me wrong, I'm not a racist but the moment the US sees any Asian looking person in close proximity to an American F15 in Saudi Arabia, the House of Saud will make a first hand experience of being a target of American anger.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Pls don't get me wrong, I'm not a racist but the moment the US sees any Asian looking person in close proximity to an American F15 in Saudi Arabia, the House of Saud will make a first hand experience of being a target of American anger.

Sure, but we've seen plenty of that stuff already.

Hell, the US officially said that we stole multiple terabytes of data on the F-35 project, among other things. The cat is already out of the bag.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

How is the DF21 ballistic deal going? I think KSA need DF21 to replace DF3? That's all round cooperation.

China always hold on to a non interference policy towards Arab world, we somehow feel very close to Saudi Arabians. KSA is the only Country on this planet to whom China sold ballistic missile.

For all we know such a change might already have happened. KSA and China military dealings have been rather secretive as you know. Even the West was oblivious about this cooperation long after it had occurred. Given what went on during Obama and the many recent positive developments we cannot rule anything out. In general KSA is secretive in this regard. Very little news reach the media. I cannot recall how many times news that later became public a long time after it had occurred, has occurred.

Pls don't get me wrong, I'm not a racist but the moment the US sees any Asian looking person in close proximity to an American F15 in Saudi Arabia, the House of Saud will make a first hand experience of being a target of American anger.

Americans cannot do anything. They were nowhere to be seen when KSA and China had secretive dealings in the 1980's. Let alone today when KSA is much less dependent on the US. The Americans know this already.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Every major and strategic defense acquisition of Saudi Arabia is supervised by the US. Even your Saudi-Sino projects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Strategic_Missile_Force
In 2013, media reports appeared suggesting that the RSSMF would consider purchasing the advanced DF-21 ballistic missile from China in the future.[16][17] In January 2014, Newsweek revealed that Saudi Arabia had secretly bought a number of DF-21 medium-range ballistic missiles in 2007. They also said that the American CIA had allowed the deal to go through as long as the missiles were modified to not be able to carry nuclear warheads. While the DF-3 has a longer range, it was designed to carry a nuclear payload, and so had poor accuracy (300 meters CEP) if used with a conventional warhead. It would only be useful against large area targets like cities and military bases. This made them useless during the Gulf War for retaliating against Iraqi Scud missile attacks, as they would cause mass civilian casualties and would not be as effective as the ongoing coalition air attacks. After the war, the Saudis and the CIA worked together to covertly allow the purchase of Chinese DF-21s. The DF-21 is solid-fueled instead of liquid-fueled like the DF-3, so it takes less time to prepare for launch. It is accurate to 30 meters CEP, allowing it to attack specific targets like compounds or palaces. The Saudis are not known to possess mobile launchers, but may use some 12 launchers originally bought with the DF-3s. The number of DF-21 missiles that were bought is unknown. Newsweek speculates that details of the deal being made public is part of Saudi deterrence against Iran.[15][18][19]

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Every major and strategic defense acquisition of Saudi Arabia is supervised by the US. Even your Saudi-Sino projects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Saudi_Strategic_Missile_Force
In 2013, media reports appeared suggesting that the RSSMF would consider purchasing the advanced DF-21 ballistic missile from China in the future.[16][17] In January 2014, Newsweek revealed that Saudi Arabia had secretly bought a number of DF-21 medium-range ballistic missiles in 2007. They also said that the American CIA had allowed the deal to go through as long as the missiles were modified to not be able to carry nuclear warheads. While the DF-3 has a longer range, it was designed to carry a nuclear payload, and so had poor accuracy (300 meters CEP) if used with a conventional warhead. It would only be useful against large area targets like cities and military bases. This made them useless during the Gulf War for retaliating against Iraqi Scud missile attacks, as they would cause mass civilian casualties and would not be as effective as the ongoing coalition air attacks. After the war, the Saudis and the CIA worked together to covertly allow the purchase of Chinese DF-21s. The DF-21 is solid-fueled instead of liquid-fueled like the DF-3, so it takes less time to prepare for launch. It is accurate to 30 meters CEP, allowing it to attack specific targets like compounds or palaces. The Saudis are not known to possess mobile launchers, but may use some 12 launchers originally bought with the DF-3s. The number of DF-21 missiles that were bought is unknown. Newsweek speculates that details of the deal being made public is part of Saudi deterrence against Iran.[15][18][19]

They were nowhere to be seen in the 1980's or the recent dealings which could not have been viewed positively by the US yet they did nothing. It is very limited what they can do in this regard. They are not going to risk losing one of their oldest and most important allies (KSA and by default most of the GCC and influence in the Arab world) by trying to sabotage the inevitable strong and growing KSA-China ties or even the warming KSA-Russian ties.

The same CIA claims that KSA has nuclear weapons already and secrete intermediate-range ballistic missile sites located deep in the mountain and desert regions of KSA.

Point is as I stated before, KSA is a very secretive state, and it has actually already been proven to the whole world that dealings were taking place that only KSA and in this case China knew about before the remaining world got to know about this.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The same CIA claims that KSA has nuclear weapons already and secrete intermediate-range ballistic missile site sites located deep in the mountain and desert regions of KSA.

That does make sense, since the DF-3 was never designed for conventional warheads, unlike the DF-21. Putting a conventional warhead on a DF-3 would be a waste of time.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

That does make sense, since the DF-3 was never designed for conventional warheads, unlike the DF-21. Putting a conventional warhead on a DF-3 would be a waste of time.

Indeed. It's just to illustrate that we mortals know very little about what is really going on and that some reports in Newsweek or claims by CIA members (current and past ones) are of little use and they should not always be read as the gospel. I for once have no doubt in my mind that KSA-China military cooperation and relationship in general is greater/more deep than what we know about. Which is already saying something considering what we (the mortals) know about already.

The US might know something about this and they might not know everything (as in the 1980's) as we have seen countless of examples of across the world. USA/CIA are not omnipotent. If they were they would not have committed that many devastating blunders in the Middle East/Muslim world in the past 15 years alone.