Did Israel win the war in LEBANON.

[mirage_lover]

Does the failure to achieve set objectives amount to failure?

In my opinion, no it doesn't Regarding the 2006 conflict i believe IDF litrelly flattened half of Lebanon. That's what matters to IDF, not the two soldiers that we kidnapped or Hezbolla [for now].

 

[JK!]

In my opinion, no it doesn't Regarding the 2006 conflict i believe IDF litrelly flattened half of Lebanon. That's what matters to IDF, not the two soldiers that we kidnapped or Hezbolla [for now].

Erm NO.

It was more of a get tough we don't take no crap kind of thing and if said objective was to destroy lebanon then that is what Israeli nukes are for.

Take into consideration the defensive mentality of Israel which is surrounded by countries which are basically its enemy.

You also forget that at the time Hezbollah were launching rockets into Israel and the only way to get back at them was bombing them.

To do that unfortunately there was the risk of collateral damage due to Hezbollah operating from civilian areas.

 

[JK!]

Does the failure to achieve set objectives amount to failure?

In my opinion yes.

Taking the issue of the subcontinent has Pakistan achieved the ultimate objective of liberating kashmir?

A CLUE NO!

 

[my_aks]

Guys there r 2 clear points in the whole story.
1. look at the extent to what israel did just for 2 soldiers, which of our countries have done any of the stuff like that.
2. the only people facing israel`s army were the hisbollah only no one from the goverment of lebonan was involved in the fighting.
what the hisbollah achived is stop the movement of israel into lebonan.
what happened after that we all know

 

[zraver]

Dude gotta disagree with you here...... They may not even be a round two because of the political fallout for the Olmert govt. And of course you are assuming that Hezbollah will stand pat. There is no evidence that they will. They have proved resourceful and skilled. The IDF would still win but probably at a high price. And with the fallout from the last one still settling it is unlikely they will want to soon.

We can hope the French can stop hezzbollah and the Israelies from going at it again, but France is not known for sticking around. Those two combatants will be at it again.

I am not assuming Hezzbollah will stand pat, but with out effecitve air defense or an air force caapble of denying Israel command of the air then they have no choice but to fight and die in place. If they try and move in the open they will be smothered. Many of the Hezzbullah causalties were rocket crews who by thier very nature had to move in the open or hide among civillians.

Israels command of the air means they have the strategic and tactical initive in a shooting war. The best Hezzbiollah can do is get better ATGM's some manpads, and work on thier fortifications and small unit tactics. All things Israel with its far larger budget can match, counter, and exceed.

people forget that Israel got soft and stupid with its occupation duties vs the Palestinians, they wont make that mistake again.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Israel did not won they failed to achieve the target the failed to destroy the hezbollah the hezbollah though were damaged but not destroyed and were successful in saving them self plus they gave a good fought to Israel plus Israel also failed to free its two soldier's the Israeli chief OF staff resined the political fallout for the Olmert govt has become know to all calls are for his resignations are being demanded by not only the oppositions but also his own party members these are the fall out of the war because Israel FAILED TO WIN .

 

[Keysersoze]

We can hope the French can stop hezzbollah and the Israelies from going at it again, but France is not known for sticking around. Those two combatants will be at it again.

I am not assuming Hezzbollah will stand pat, but with out effecitve air defense or an air force caapble of denying Israel command of the air then they have no choice but to fight and die in place. If they try and move in the open they will be smothered. Many of the Hezzbullah causalties were rocket crews who by thier very nature had to move in the open or hide among civillians.

Israels command of the air means they have the strategic and tactical initive in a shooting war. The best Hezzbiollah can do is get better ATGM's some manpads, and work on thier fortifications and small unit tactics. All things Israel with its far larger budget can match, counter, and exceed.

people forget that Israel got soft and stupid with its occupation duties vs the Palestinians, they wont make that mistake again.

Well this is the thing.....there are going to be several viewpoints on this. Israeli public opinion has always assumed that their forces were invulnerable and thus will pause before sanctioning another military adventure. If you put it into context with Israel's previous mis-adventure (in Lebanon)and all the negative press they got. I doubt there is going to be a round two soon enough for them to prevent a Hezbollah rebuild. War as a we all know is a extension of politics.

As for reality Hezbollah will have taken stock of it's weaknesses in the last campaign and will find newer ways to cause the IDF as many casualties as possible. In the long run they cannot win but they just need to keep things going for long enough for public opinion to sway against Israel before switching to a guerrilla type war which Israel faced the first time they occupied southern Lebanon.

 

[Shehz]

On a sensible note, this is what I'd like to highlight in my debate;

Power and might is not the factor to conclude who did or eventually won a war. Even in Middle-East, experts are saying that US have lost the war in Iraq, reason, over half a decade of insurgency, and US with all their guns & whistles don't have a clue where to begin, it's worse than Vietnam.

The thing is, when a weaker force, with meagre resources, succeeds in making the stronger agressive adversary take a few steps back, it is considered a victory for the weak, and loss for the mighty.

Same in SL, the stronger can not advance against the weaker LTTE, thus, the entire world says that LTTE is winning.

Even in history, Spatans.

Similarly, the mighty advancing Israelis were forced to retreat eventually, call it political move or diplomacy, hence, Hizbullah was victorious on this one.

Some might argue economically, if the war would have elongated.
For that, I'd reply that Israel actually retreated. Hizbullah didn't have any economy to begin with, and they had uninterrupted supply from whoever (call it Iran if you must). On the other hand, Israel was suffering, in terms of world condemnation to their buildings and infrastructure being demolished, and future looking worse.
Few more days, and they were fearing Tel Aviv to be targeted.

 

[PakSniper]

people forget that Israel got soft and stupid with its occupation duties vs the Palestinians, they wont make that mistake again.

Zraver, you bought up a good point, and I seen Israeli generals talk about this a lot after the war. But even they mentioned on CNN, it will be difficult for the Israeli's to train their men for combat than occupation I'm guessing they might be holding some exercises in the future with US. But we all have to remember Israel today is not what it was in the past with Ex-WWII soldiers and officers hardened by 3-4 war experiences. Also, know Omert wasn't nothing like Sharon.

About France, I read somewhere they aren't doing anything and they still running around, according to Lebanese people living their in the south on Lebanese Forums. France just doesn't have the gut to fight.

Also, they might have air-power (the best in ME) but it doesn't alone win battles, Hezbullah were still firing at Israel I seen some video's they didn't always hide in civilians and video's I seen of IAF attacks were on jungled up areas in the south. But none the less Hezbullah were organized and it was Israel who under-estimated their high-tech capability even Israel's admitted it.

Also I want to point out as Shehz mentioned Israel's economy was itself hit in the North and basically bought to a stand hill, they trading port was also being rocketed, and I read a lot of crops were destroyed once they caught fire, etc. This shows that Israel is still vulnerable in some aspects it they prolong wars.

 

[Shehz]

Since when have The US Building Air-Craft Carriers?
Didn't the US, even earlier, for those times, have jets such as the Sabres & Phantoms? Used them against men in straw hat's with AK-47 and booby traps.

Why is it widely believed, and acknowledged, that The Vietnam war was lost?

 

[Adux]

American Aircarft carrier came first in 1922

 

[Adux]

Since when have The US Building Air-Craft Carriers?
Didn't the US, even earlier, for those times, have jets such as the Sabres & Phantoms? Used them against men in straw hat's with AK-47 and booby traps.

Why is it widely believed, and acknowledged, that The Vietnam war was lost?

Please watch Dance of Death in Multimedia section for a better understanding of VietCong

 

[Keysersoze]

American Aircarft carrier came first in 1922

I think the point that he is making is that the Americans were always much higher tech than their opponents. yet still lost the conflict in Vietnam

 

[Adux]

I think the point that he is making is that the Americans were always much higher tech than their opponents. yet still lost the conflict in Vietnam

Yes they did. Viets werent exactly lower-tech. They had a very good supply from China and USSR. Otherwise US would have achieved its objectives.

 

[Keysersoze]

Yes they did. Viets werent exactly lower-tech. They had a very good supply from China and USSR. Otherwise US would have achieved its objectives.

well yes they were lower tech by a large margin. the U.S. could have achieved it's targets however it was a political war and could not be fought "all out" for that reason.
So the same principle applies with Lebanon.