Did Bangladesh fall into a trap?

[Zabaniyah]

All those Bangladeshi's who are up in arms about US base, US has not made any proposal like that yet it seems, and it was a RAW leak that created a fake news, just to pre-empt any such moves, as Indians do not like this move at all and are nervous about it. I have seen this mentioned in a Indian defense website from an experienced insider.

I don't know if they intentionally did it. In Indian journalism, it is rumored that people write stuff up whatever comes to their mind. Especially that Times of India (AKA ToI-let news). It's all about selling their news. Even if it is complete BS. That's one of the reasons why I never listen to Indian media news.

Although, I was surprised to see the sheer amount of negativity coming from many Indians here with even the slightest hint of a US base in Bangladesh.

But if the US was asking for a base, why we should not give it to them? Atanz (I don't know where he is from, a Pakistani?) made a good post, essentially making the same points I made briefly in a previous post:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-bangladesh-fall-into-trap-3.html#post3007034

Okay, now that question comes: Why do we need a US base when we already have our own military? I admit, the Bangladesh Army's credibility is...meh........

May be those that have objection, can refute those points.

China has been an irresponsible and negligent ally to protect us from Indian threat, so why should we not go for an option that may actually work? I am totally with Munshi Bhai on this one, although I am not sure about idune Bhai's position. Simply put, we have no choice but to work with US/West a 34 trillion dollar economy, we will consider China, 7.4 trillion dollar economy, when it topples the US led West as a hyper power. China supporters need to understand how the world works now, not how the world will work in the future, which all of us, including Munshi Bhai and myself will welcome with open arms.

First off, China was never technically our ally. They just sell us weapons at great prices.

Secondly, China hardly ever considered India to be of any significant threat. Although, the Indian diplomats talk more about China relative to how their Chinese counterparts talk about India. I don't know, it's odd.

We are already dependent on the US/West to some extent. Much of Bangladesh's aid money comes from there. And they are the largest destination for its exports.

Not saying that Bangladesh should ignore China, but it should keep all options open, and not put all of its eggs into one basket.

The problem now is: No one currently in control of Bangladeshi politics even have a strategy in respect to the geopolitical arena. I doubt they even understand what it is. And replacing them is no easy task either. They simply won't go down without a fight.

 

[Lighting_Fighter]

What happened to 10 or so soldiers came to bd few weeks back? Are they still in Bangladesh? Or they left? Did they have access to important and secret issues of bd military?

 

[DEV444]

China should be able to match the US power by 2025, which is around a decade away. It's economy by 2025 will be leaps ahead of the US and it will be able to match the US, as far as Bangladesh sphere is concerned, in regards to ability to provide protection.

Chinese airbases from Tibet can run bombing runs against New Delhi and other India cities, with very little the Indians could do about this, due to the overwhelming Chinese military superiority that it would have against the Indians by then.

Say in 2025, when India has 250 FGFAs and also a few dozen ICBMs(Agni 6/7?), with which it would even hit the US, and decides to launch an invasion of BD, what could the US possibly do? Not much is my answer. The US, which is now in crisis due to losing it's lone superpower status, would have to risk all to protect a country like BD, since whatever conventional forces it could bring to bear against India would be wiped out by the overwhelming local superiority the Indians would have.

In the new world(2025 onwards), the US will be nowhere new as powerful as it once was.

The only country that could protect Bangladesh against India is China in the long term. It will retain a massive conventional advantage against India(for the next few decades at least) and could rain thousands of bombs and missiles at India within a few minutes of it deciding to do so.

BD is best advised to double it's military spending and concentrate on building up it's overall strength - economy, military etc. Best protect to protect BD is BD people themselves, not foreigners.

Oh my God sir, this is absolute classic! China never did ever fire a single bullet to help Pakistan during any of their wars with India.This despite the Sino-Pak friendship being taller than the mountains, deeper than the oceans and sweeter than honey. And you expect China to put the best part of its military might against India in the service of Bangladesh. And this when the Sino-Bangla friendship is taller than the average Bangladeshi, deeper than the river Meghna in summer, and sweeter than BSF's love for Bangladeshi border trespassers!

 

[Lighting_Fighter]

Oh my God sir, this is absolute classic! China never did ever fire a single bullet to help Pakistan during any of their wars with India.This despite the Sino-Pak friendship being taller than the mountains, deeper than the oceans and sweeter than honey. And you expect China to put the best part of its military might against India in the service of Bangladesh. And this when the Sino-Bangla friendship is taller than the average Bangladeshi, deeper than the river Meghna in summer, and sweeter than BSF's love for Bangladeshi border trespassers!

I think I didn't mention war with india. What I said is to make knot with China and deepen relationship. And When I said about trap, I didn't mean India, I meant some western countries. India and Awami League were just pawns. But yes india also have the advantages too for example linking eastern india to western india through bangladesh. Anyway, we will not know the truth until it is unveiled.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There's currently no competent leadership in BD who'll go for a win-win deal, they'll only give and gain nothing like Pakistan. However, thanks for your constructive suggestion.

With due respect what makes you think that Pakistan did not again anything? My previous post touched on various areas where US has helped Pakistan. I could go into more details but I thank that would be going off topic.

USA built Pakistan. That is fact. What has happened is we have had terrible leadership in Pakistan. What they have done is when anything went wrong they blamed it on the US. US has been a convenient scapegoat for our own failures. Take the case of drone strikes, we know Pak., government sanctioned them, US was even using Shamsi Airbase in Balochistan for drone operations. Kayani even asked for drone help when Pakistani Army was involved in Waziristan operations.

But at the official level they all pretend they don't know about it. In fact they publicly lambast these strikes and then like cowards privatly egg on the Americans. If they had any gumption they would stand up and explain to the Pakistani public, that first that they have sanctioned them and second why they have sanctioned them. Theu should take accountability for their actions.

Bear in mind the USA never forced Pakistan. It was our choice. There is never any emotion in these intra country relationships. It is not like normal human friendships. A state is a institution.It is all about self interest. If they converge you become friends and if the diverge you walk away.

Japan, South Korea and Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Bahrein, Qatar have very deep relationship with USA. Japan and South Korea even have very large US military bases which is source of lot of trouble to the locals. Despite this Japan chooses to be part of the US security structure for strategic benefit.

A poster mentioned China here and it's great economy. I would like to mention that the Chinese are in competition with Bangladesh. Forget about China 2020, even today China is trading giant. Can some Bengali economic expert here tell us how Bangladesh is benefit from the Chinese economy? Can somebody give us some figures.
1. How much does Bangladesh export to China right now?

2. How much does Bangladesh export to the USA and the West?

3. How many Bengali's are living comfortably ensconced in USA, UK or Europe?

4. How many of them have got US, UK etc Passports?

5. How many of them send money back to Bangladesh?

6. How many of them are free to set up their own mosques and pray without hindrance in USA or UK etc?

7. Then also do the same comparison with China and I already know what will be very, very obvious.

Before anybody starts on about how US treats Muslims well consider this. Millions of Muslims have migrated to the West and got passports etc. They live there and build mosques and openly preach conversion etc. In London there are Mosques everywhere. Now all these Muslims have migrated there. The West is not their land.

In China you have Uiguer Muslims, a Turkic people whose traditional homeland, Turkistan with it's capital Kashgar or Khotan were taken over by force by China. Today those Uiguer are being slowly erased by millions of Chinese settlers moving to their lands. They are under massive state control and their cultutre is being wiped out. All mosques are controlled by the Chinese state. These Muslim's are being oppressed beyond belief. So people get a grip on things.

And finally I would like to congratulate Bangali's for having done a terrific job with their country. I do think you are better off without us. For a country with almost everything in short supply, even land you have built a impressive economy of late. I am also impressed by the way you have handled the Islamists in your country. Keep up the good work.

We in Pakistan know only how to bite the hand that feeds us. Almost all our exports go to US or Europe. Most of our aid comes from the West. PIA flies to about 2 or 3 Chinese cities but almost every large US or European city has 2-3 flights every week. In UK alone I think PIA flies to 4 airports with flights almost every day. What does that tell you?

Millions of Pakistani's live in US, UK and Europe. They send money back to Pakistan which probably helps 10 times more people. Yet perversly they sit there in the West, digest on Western food, **** in the West and then moan and b***ch about it. But China is looked as a friggin friend.

Thats what I mean by bite the hand that feeds you.

Good luck to you guy's whichever way you go. I just want to tell you guy's my dad's uncle was a POW in Bangladesh in 1971. I have grown up hearing rather critical stories about Bengali's and nursed ambivalent feelings towards your country but I want to close that chapter.


Peace !!!

 

[Sugarcane]

Is there any possibility that US is using India to counter China, but as per her track record she will not let India to reach at the level that she can challenge US's interests. So - they are planing to use BD in a way that if the need arise they can use them because Pakistan is not in their league now. Just my thoughts you are entitle to discard if not agreed

 

[Talha Khan Abid]

Is there any possibility that US is using India to counter China, but as per her track record she will not let India to reach at the level that she can challenge US's interests. So - they are planing to use BD in a way that if the need arise they can use them because Pakistan is not in their league now. Just my thoughts you are entitle to discard if not agreed

Sir this is Indu and American trick. They make it appear like the US navy will be in Bangladesh to counter India so the Bangladeshi public support the decision. In truth this evil American 7th fleet will be against China.

 

[eastwatch]

Sir this is Indu and American trick. They make it appear like the US navy will be in Bangladesh to counter India so the Bangladeshi public support the decision. In truth this evil American 7th fleet will be against China.

USA is enlarging its navy fleet in the south-pacific to protect Taiwan and to protect the sea territories of Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines from the aggravated Chinese encroachment into these countries' sea territories.

Then, what is the problem with BD, why should it support a US naval base in the BoB? Certainly, US wants to be here in order to deny China to complete its string of pearls, or the full benefit of its completion. But, BD has also a security issue itself. Its merchant ships are vulnerable in the BoB and Indian Ocean. All because of IN activities in all these places.

We do not have any military treaty with China and China will remain neutral in a BD-India conflict in the sea unless it hurts the Chinese trade itself. It means BD will remain vulnerable without a protection which it itself cannot build. So, BD has only one alternative source of protection, that is, the USA. If it has an expanded berthing right in BD it will certainly give BD's merchant fleet a kind of protection from an Indian attack sometime in the future.

Now, one question remains unanswered. What benefits the USA itself will get from a basing right in BD? USA's own and SE Asia's shipping lanes remain vulnerable without a navy station between middleeast and malakka strait. BD is located at a midpoint between these two. So, USA will greatly benefit by a small naval presence in the BoB.

 

[PlanetSoldier]

With due respect what makes you think that Pakistan did not again anything? My previous post touched on various areas where US has helped Pakistan. I could go into more details but I thank that would be going off topic.

USA built Pakistan. That is fact. What has happened is we have had terrible leadership in Pakistan. What they have done is when anything went wrong they blamed it on the US. US has been a convenient scapegoat for our own failures. Take the case of drone strikes, we know Pak., government sanctioned them, US was even using Shamsi Airbase in Balochistan for drone operations. Kayani even asked for drone help when Pakistani Army was involved in Waziristan operations.

But at the official level they all pretend they don't know about it. In fact they publicly lambast these strikes and then like cowards privatly egg on the Americans. If they had any gumption they would stand up and explain to the Pakistani public, that first that they have sanctioned them and second why they have sanctioned them. Theu should take accountability for their actions.

Bear in mind the USA never forced Pakistan. It was our choice. There is never any emotion in these intra country relationships. It is not like normal human friendships. A state is a institution.It is all about self interest. If they converge you become friends and if the diverge you walk away.

Japan, South Korea and Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Bahrein, Qatar have very deep relationship with USA. Japan and South Korea even have very large US military bases which is source of lot of trouble to the locals. Despite this Japan chooses to be part of the US security structure for strategic benefit.

A poster mentioned China here and it's great economy. I would like to mention that the Chinese are in competition with Bangladesh. Forget about China 2020, even today China is trading giant. Can some Bengali economic expert here tell us how Bangladesh is benefit from the Chinese economy? Can somebody give us some figures.
1. How much does Bangladesh export to China right now?

2. How much does Bangladesh export to the USA and the West?

3. How many Bengali's are living comfortably ensconced in USA, UK or Europe?

4. How many of them have got US, UK etc Passports?

5. How many of them send money back to Bangladesh?

6. How many of them are free to set up their own mosques and pray without hindrance in USA or UK etc?

7. Then also do the same comparison with China and I already know what will be very, very obvious.

Before anybody starts on about how US treats Muslims well consider this. Millions of Muslims have migrated to the West and got passports etc. They live there and build mosques and openly preach conversion etc. In London there are Mosques everywhere. Now all these Muslims have migrated there. The West is not their land.

In China you have Uiguer Muslims, a Turkic people whose traditional homeland, Turkistan with it's capital Kashgar or Khotan were taken over by force by China. Today those Uiguer are being slowly erased by millions of Chinese settlers moving to their lands. They are under massive state control and their cultutre is being wiped out. All mosques are controlled by the Chinese state. These Muslim's are being oppressed beyond belief. So people get a grip on things.

And finally I would like to congratulate Bangali's for having done a terrific job with their country. I do think you are better off without us. For a country with almost everything in short supply, even land you have built a impressive economy of late. I am also impressed by the way you have handled the Islamists in your country. Keep up the good work.

We in Pakistan know only how to bite the hand that feeds us. Almost all our exports go to US or Europe. Most of our aid comes from the West. PIA flies to about 2 or 3 Chinese cities but almost every large US or European city has 2-3 flights every week. In UK alone I think PIA flies to 4 airports with flights almost every day. What does that tell you?

Millions of Pakistani's live in US, UK and Europe. They send money back to Pakistan which probably helps 10 times more people. Yet perversly they sit there in the West, digest on Western food, **** in the West and then moan and b***ch about it. But China is looked as a friggin friend.

Thats what I mean by bite the hand that feeds you.

Good luck to you guy's whichever way you go. I just want to tell you guy's my dad's uncle was a POW in Bangladesh in 1971. I have grown up hearing rather critical stories about Bengali's and nursed ambivalent feelings towards your country but I want to close that chapter.


Peace !!!

Why is this epic man? I told with our leadership we will not gain anything like Pakistan gained. Look at my writing "they'll only give and gain nothing like Pakistan". As you said US built many infrastructure in Pakistan so I said we'll not be able to gain anything like Pakistan..that's all.

I didn't stand against friendship with western bloc/USA, I just said if they want base right (it's a bogus news though), we should not allow and it never means I'm against friendship. We are already in good relationship with western bloc. Deepening the existing relationship doesn't mean we have to let them have base right. If ever we give them that right, before that we need strong leadership, who can deal smartly losing nothing of our national interest and gaining like Pakistan did.

 

[LeGenD]

China should be able to match the US power by 2025, which is around a decade away. It's economy by 2025 will be leaps ahead of the US and it will be able to match the US, as far as Bangladesh sphere is concerned, in regards to ability to provide protection.

Chinese airbases from Tibet can run bombing runs against New Delhi and other India cities, with very little the Indians could do about this, due to the overwhelming Chinese military superiority that it would have against the Indians by then.

Say in 2025, when India has 250 FGFAs and also a few dozen ICBMs(Agni 6/7?), with which it would even hit the US, and decides to launch an invasion of BD, what could the US possibly do? Not much is my answer. The US, which is now in crisis due to losing it's lone superpower status, would have to risk all to protect a country like BD, since whatever conventional forces it could bring to bear against India would be wiped out by the overwhelming local superiority the Indians would have.

In the new world(2025 onwards), the US will be nowhere new as powerful as it once was.

The only country that could protect Bangladesh against India is China in the long term. It will retain a massive conventional advantage against India(for the next few decades at least) and could rain thousands of bombs and missiles at India within a few minutes of it deciding to do so.

BD is best advised to double it's military spending and concentrate on building up it's overall strength - economy, military etc. Best protect to protect BD is BD people themselves, not foreigners.

My friend, economic growth is not stagnant. Projections are based on current data but they do not cover uncertainties. For example; Chinese GDP may be growing at 10% in 2012. However, it may be growing 1% in 2020. This is how uncertain the economic future is.

Here is an example:

US have seen its highs and lows in its economic growth. Similar is the situation with many other nations.

Therefore, do not rely too much on projections. Fact is that US Industrial base is very powerful and it has remained strong for a long time. China has progressed a lot due to massive US Industrial investment in China. This investment have made Chinese populace tech-savy. And now you can see all the hooplah about China. But China still cannot develop every kind of product.

As far as India is concerned, it is far behind even China.

Therefore, US dominance is not going to be seriously challenged for a long term basis. Yes! We will witness rise of BRICS and world economic fibre will become lot less monopolized in the future. US may loose the title of sole-superpower but it will remain a leading WESTERN country and a powerhouse due to its immense resources and powerful Industrial base for many many years to come.

 

[kalu_miah]

I don't know if they intentionally did it. In Indian journalism, it is rumored that people write stuff up whatever comes to their mind. Especially that Times of India (AKA ToI-let news). It's all about selling their news. Even if it is complete BS. That's one of the reasons why I never listen to Indian media news.

Although, I was surprised to see the sheer amount of negativity coming from many Indians here with even the slightest hint of a US base in Bangladesh.

Okay, now that question comes: Why do we need a US base when we already have our own military? I admit, the Bangladesh Army's credibility is...meh........

First off, China was never technically our ally. They just sell us weapons at great prices.

Secondly, China hardly ever considered India to be of any significant threat. Although, the Indian diplomats talk more about China relative to how their Chinese counterparts talk about India. I don't know, it's odd.

We are already dependent on the US/West to some extent. Much of Bangladesh's aid money comes from there. And they are the largest destination for its exports.

Not saying that Bangladesh should ignore China, but it should keep all options open, and not put all of its eggs into one basket.

The problem now is: No one currently in control of Bangladeshi politics even have a strategy in respect to the geopolitical arena. I doubt they even understand what it is. And replacing them is no easy task either. They simply won't go down without a fight.

They did it intentionally, it was a RAW leak to create anti-American sentiment among Bangladeshi public. I think idune Bhai said as much in his post and I agree with this assessment.

It may not be that hard. BNP will need to move away from the Chinese camp and move back to the US camp, making sure that the US understand that BNP's anti India stance will remain intact, despite this change. During MUA-FUA India-US convergence was the doom for BNP and boon for RAWamy come-back, this time a US-India divergence on Bangladesh will hopefully bring BNP back, if BNP knows how to play its cards right with the US. Public is already on BNP side, all BNP need to ensure is a fair election without rigging with US help and RAWamy idiots will be history for the next 5 years and may be forever.

 

[Srinivas]

We are presently under the Indian boot. China is not coming forward to assist Bangladesh against India. The present government is keeping China at a distance. How long do you think we can keep our sovereignty safe from India? People are worried that the US will take our sovereignty but India has already taken over the country and people are dreaming that they have a choice in any of this. BD will one day have to make a deal with either India or the US. Take your pick. Do you think BD has a choice? What world are you living in? Nice to be idealistic but in the real world BD is already screwed. Somehow Bangladeshis here think they are better Muslims then every other who have allowed US presence on their territory. Why don't you join Al-Qaeda and try to get the US out of Saudi Arabia. Jordan, Egypt, Tunisia, Indonesia, Pakistan and the dozens of Muslim countries that have military ties with the US instead of moaning on PDF. Do you think we are better Muslims for keeping the US out? Do you think anyone cares? We are a poor backward country that no one gives a **** about and we are behaving as if we can stop India by ourselves. Why did all these other Muslim countries allow US troops on their soil? To protect their sovereignty from external threats which they could not protect themselves. Since China is not forthcoming and if they were India will likely invade what choices do we have? If the US is interested to dock the Seventh Fleet in Chittagong then we should negotiate the terms so it is not offensive to China. At the same time China will soon come forward and we can have more military arrangements with them. We can then keep the Indians out.

The idea is to keep friendly ties with both the US and China. BD cannot survive by angering too many great powers. If we oppose India then we will also anger the Russians. For the rest you can throw your dumb Muslim Ummah BS in the dustbin. No Muslim country will come to our aid against India.

Why would India invade as you said "poor backward country"?
India do not have expansionist strategy into Bangla territory. What BD is facing today is the same happened to the tiny nations who have giant neighbours throughout history. It is in India's interests to have a friendly neighbour, India may have done some policy changes or may have meddled in BD matters but Invasion is a dream.

 

[Srinivas]

China should be able to match the US power by 2025, which is around a decade away. It's economy by 2025 will be leaps ahead of the US and it will be able to match the US, as far as Bangladesh sphere is concerned, in regards to ability to provide protection.

Chinese airbases from Tibet can run bombing runs against New Delhi and other India cities, with very little the Indians could do about this, due to the overwhelming Chinese military superiority that it would have against the Indians by then.

Say in 2025, when India has 250 FGFAs and also a few dozen ICBMs(Agni 6/7?), with which it would even hit the US, and decides to launch an invasion of BD, what could the US possibly do? Not much is my answer. The US, which is now in crisis due to losing it's lone superpower status, would have to risk all to protect a country like BD, since whatever conventional forces it could bring to bear against India would be wiped out by the overwhelming local superiority the Indians would have.

In the new world(2025 onwards), the US will be nowhere new as powerful as it once was.

The only country that could protect Bangladesh against India is China in the long term. It will retain a massive conventional advantage against India(for the next few decades at least) and could rain thousands of bombs and missiles at India within a few minutes of it deciding to do so.

BD is best advised to double it's military spending and concentrate on building up it's overall strength - economy, military etc. Best protect to protect BD is BD people themselves, not foreigners.

By 2025 India can match China and can occupy the vaccum left by US in Asia pacific. Time is on our side friend. We are not against BD. Chinese don't even dare to look at Delhi by then.

ask people who are experienced from usa friendship most likely pakistan.... usa i devil that only looks for its own interest if you say yes to everything forget freedom forget pride forget religion then yeah you will get ur rewards but i9f you say no on any matters to the usa the you are stuck however it doesnt have to work that way too even if you do everything usa tells you and even then usa may throw you away if it ever needs to stay out of trouble i have to say this india might be better for you guys then the usa. it is never about who used usa friendship more better or smartly its about how usa needs you right now usa needs every country near china and its sea to be ally with the us and thats the only reason they want their fleet their just be their yes man and hope usa doesnt get into trouble and sees you guys as their scapegoat but my suggestion keep good relations but keep them at arms length dont let them come too close fleet idea is very bad

i am surprised india cant be too happy about this usa slowly controlling this ocean is bad for anybody especially a country like india that has aspirations too become a super power which america is right now



you forget what they did to their very good friend pakistan that should be enough for you anyway no country should allow anyone to station their troops or navy their its a big big risk

It depends on the country's policy. Pakistan wanted to milk USA by hiding Osama and stirring the trouble by supporting Afgan taliban which made US angry. Japana south Korea are also allies of USA in the past 70 odd years lot of economic progress was made in that countries.
An US base in Indian back yard is not good for India also.

 

[nagendrab]

Fine.....since every one is looking at India as enemy forgetting abt 1971 standing against this same 7th fleet of US , Why the hell are Bangladeshi ppl are crossing borders illegally and trying to settle in India for jobs & studies u ppl deserve Chinese treatment anyhow

Bangladesh next Pakistan in making

 

[nagendrab]

No matter how much they f....k themselves, end of the day muslims are brothers