Diaoyu Islands News and Updates

[gpit]

October 4, 2012, 2:32 PM
The Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands: A Japanese Scholar Responds
By TAKAYUKI NISHI

The People’s Republic of China’s claim that the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands are an “inherent territory” of China contradicts its own demands before 1970.

Before 1970, the People’s Republic of China did not merely acquiesce to Japanese sovereignty over the Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands. China demanded self-determination for the U.S.-administered Ryukyu Islands, with an option of return to Japanese administration, while specifically including the “Senkaku Islands”. Thus, China agreed with the United States and Japan that, in the event of the Ryukyu Islands’ return to Japanese administration, the United States should also return the Senkaku Islands to Japan.

...

The second paragraph is a false statement. Thus all that follows doesn't have ground to stand.

Post WWII international order is mainly established upon the Cario Declaration (see [Cairo Communiqué](Text) | Birth of the Constitution of Japan) and the Potsdam Declaration .

A 1785 Japanese map, the Sangoku Tsūran Zusetsu (三国通覧図&#35500 by Hayashi Shihei adopted the Chinese kanji (釣魚臺 Diaoyutai) to annotate the Senkaku Islands, which were painted in the same color as China.[11][16] The primary text itself can be found here.[17] - wiki

Thus Diayu Island is an occupied land by Japan in WWII. It should be return to China.

The Potsdam declaration also specifies that:

(8) The terms of the Cairo declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine.

Thus Japan does not have sovereignty over Ryukyu Islands. Unless it wants to subvert post WWII world order.

This Japanese guy's saying that if China doesn't make noise before 1970 means China yields the sovereign on Diaoyu Islands to Japan. This funny guy forgets a common sense. He believes if a thief steals something the victim must claim before certain time frame, or the steal is legal.

BTW, even since June 1971, when US signed Treaty of "Reversion to Japan of the Ryukyu and Daito Islands" with Japan in Washington, flying Japanese flag in Ryukyu is considered criminal upto today... and let's not forget PRC's "An Declaration of The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China, 1971-12-30" to dispute Diaoyu Islands shortly after the handover of Ryukyu.

 

[gambit]

This Japanese guy's saying that if China doesn't make noise before 1970 means China yields the sovereign on Diaoyu Islands to Japan. This funny guy forgets a common sense. He believes if a thief steals something the victim must claim before certain time frame, or the steal is legal.

If we are to continue with the theft analogy, any victim of theft must claim POSSESSION which includes sovereignty and administration of item, else the item is considered abandoned. The theft is still illegal. The real world is filled with these instances. Why do you think police departments around the US routinely hold property sales that have been in police custody for years with no one claiming them? Those items were not awarded to the criminals.

So why did you ignore Nishi's argument that China effectively abandoned those islands when China demanded the US allowed the islanders to right to self determination? He provided sources stating China's position to that effect.

[

...but the final victory must belong to the people of Ryukyu.

Translation may be rough but China's position back in 1953 seems declarative enough of China's washing hands off the islands.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Can you provide a photograph of the original map/documents showing/substantiating that the Senkakus WAS part of China??? Did any of the documents said the they were part of China or the documents only described the islands??? Is this another China's proving her sovereignty by propaganda only???

What's the basis of China's claim over the Senkakus??? Discovery??? Discovery does not equate to ownership. Naming it??? Naming it does not make it yours. Traditional fishing grounds??? Traditional fishing grounds doesn't equate to sovereignty. Some ancient Chinese traders passed there??? Does not also equate to sovereignty. Did China developed the Senkakus??? What the hell did you develop? Did China conducted economic activities on the island??? Did China exercised effective jurisdiction and effective occupation over the Senkakus??? Did China admistered the Senkakus??? What did China administered there??? Did China erected any structure or lighthouse there??? Did the Japanese expelled any Chinese garrison there in the Senkakus???

I don't think China CAN prove her claims by just telling to all people that “China owns this and that” since in ancient times.

Very well said mate, Todays CCP is completely different from Qing. Chinese never ruled and controlled these Islands and Japan inhibited and established business there.
Chinese always dream about their rosy past and try to claim every thing related to that. If the same logic applies to every nation then whole of China can be claimed by Mongols.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Imperial Japan took a lot of territory from china and senkaku/diaoyu is geographically very close to chinese mainland than Japanese one but can a territory given away by the then legitimate chinese gov be taken away now?

If the same logic applies to spartly and parcel Islands should belong to Vietnam and Phillipines. China cunningly avoids International laws here but goes to UN any thing related to Senkaku's.

We have hundreds of proofs but we're not going present them for the same reason I criticize yours but this one is endorse by a reputable scholar with NYT backing.

If the same logic applies to Tibet, China stole Tibet from its people

 

[Snomannen]

Very well said mate, Todays CCP is completely different from Qing. Chinese never ruled and controlled these Islands and Japan inhibited and established business there.
Chinese always dream about their rosy past and try to claim every thing related to that. If the same logic applies to every nation then whole of China can be claimed by Mongols.

Sorry, but the "Mongolia" nowadays has nothing related to the former Mongolia Empire, same story goes to Macedonia. Besides, Outer Mongolia was independent from Modern China. If China really claims everything, they should claim OM.

You can search my old posts.

 

[Snomannen]

If the same logic applies to Tibet, China stole Tibet from its people

Yeah and India stole Goa from its people, according to your logic.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Sorry, but the "Mongolia" nowadays has nothing related to the former Mongolia Empire, same story goes to Macedonia. Besides, Outer Mongolia was independent from Modern China. If China really claims everything, they should claim OM.

You can search my old posts.

Similarly todays CCP is not related to Qing so do not try to bully island nations in Pacific.

Yeah and India stole Goa from its people, according to your logic.

Goa's case is completely different from Tibet and there are no independence movement in Goa. But Tibet is in oppression since Mao lead a blood revolution.

 

[Snomannen]

Similarly todays CCP is not related to Qing so do not try to bully island nations in Pacific.



Goa's case is completely different from Tibet and there are no independence movement in Goa. But Tibet is in oppression since Mao lead a blood revolution.

Wrong again, the PRC is officially inherited from the ROC and Qing Dynasty, but OM is inherited from nobody.

Goa's case is exactly the same with Tibet, also with Basque, Bayern, Northern Ireland and Catalonia.

If you really want to see the difference:
India sent their troops to against peaceful people, the CCP sent their troops to fight Dali's betrayal action.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Wrong again, the PRC is officially inherited from the ROC and Qing Dynasty, but OM is inherited from nobody.

Goa's case is exactly the same with Tibet, also with Basque, Bayern, Northern Ireland and Catalonia.

So you are the one who started independence movement in Goa

No matter how much you try CCP is not the legitimate succesor of QING.

 

[Snomannen]

So you are the one who started independence movement in Goa

No matter how much you try CCP is not the legitimate succesor of QING.

No. Nor in Britian, Ireland, Vietnam, Spain or France.

According to your logic India is not legitimate successor of Mughal either, give your history back to Pakistan.

 

[Hellraiser007]

No.

According to your logic India is not legitimate successor of Mughal either, give your history back to Pakistan.

Mugals are not the ones who migrated to pakistan

India existed as a country from 5000 B.C. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Snomannen]

Mugals are not the ones who migrated to pakistan

India existed as a country from 5000 B.C. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes they are, as you said that Outer Mongolia should claim China.
If Pakistan was not named Pakistan but Mughal, that will be awesome in some way.

So does China, hmmhmm. I though you are the one who doesn't know his own comment.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Yes they are, as you said that Outer Mongolia should claim China.
If Pakistan was not named Pakistan but Mughal, that will be awesome in some way.

So does China, hmmhmm. I though you are the one who doesn't know his own comment.

Again confused

Mugal dynasty was originated in Afganistan and they are Chagatai tribes of central asia. Majority of Mugal emperors were born in India and the last mugal emperor was born here unlike Kublai khan.

Mugal empire relates to Afganistan, not pakistan which is just a passage to India. But Mongol empire originated in Mongolia and at its height it sub dued whole china and ruled it.

 

[Snomannen]

Again confused

Mugal dynasty was originated in Afganistan and they are Chagatai tribes of central asia. Majority of Mugal emperors were born in India and the last mugal emperor was born here unlike Kublai khan.

Mugal empire relates to Afganistan, not pakistan which is just a passage to India. But Mongol empire originated in Mongolia and at its height it sub dued whole china and ruled it.

No confusion at all, again based on your logic, Pakistan as a "passage" owns Mughal since you said Outer Mongolia should claim China:
Mongolian were originated from Hulun Buir, which is a territory of Modern China.
Nowadays people in Outer Mongolia are mainly Khalkha, who were "slaves" of the Golden Family. They were not even part of Mongolian during the Yuan Dynasty.
And those Golden Family, lineal descendants of the Great Khan, more than half of Mongolian in the world, are all Chinese.

Ming officially inherited from Yuan,
Qing officially inherited from Ming and Northern Yuan,
ROC officially inherited from Qing,
PRC officially inherited from ROC.

Khalkha has no business related to these changing.

Again:
China is a country established by Chinese ethnic groups including Tibetan, Hun, Han, Mongolian, Manchu, and others. The history of China obviously = The history of Chinese ethnic groups (expectation can goes to non-native ethnics such as Russian and Korean).

Outter Mongolian has no right to on behalf of the Golden Family nor take over the history from China.

 

[Hellraiser007]

No confusion at all, again based on your logic, Pakistan as a "passage" owns Mughal since you said Outer Mongolia should claim China:
Mongolian were originated from Hulun Buir, which is a territory of Modern China.
Nowadays people in Outer Mongolia are mainly Khalkha, who were "slaves" of the Golden Family. They were not even part of Mongolian during the Yuan Dynasty.
And those Golden Family, lineal descendants of the Great Khan, more than half of Mongolian in the world, are all Chinese.

Ming officially inherited from Yuan,
Qing officially inherited from Ming and Northern Yuan,
ROC officially inherited from Qing,
PRC officially inherited from ROC.

Khalkha has no business related to these changing.

Again:
China is a country established by Chinese ethnic groups including Tibetan, Hun, Han, Mongolian, Manchu, and others. The history of China obviously = The history of Chinese ethnic groups (expectation can goes to non-native ethnics such as Russian and Korean).

Outter Mongolian has no right to on behalf of the Golden Family nor take over the history from China.

Going by the logic Afghanistan can claim the Mugal heritage not pakistan.

Yuan Dynasty originated from Mongolia and you cannot claim their heritage.