Devyani Khobragade case: India tightens screws, withdraws privileges for US consular officials

[janon]

If the diplomats cannot afford to pay the domestic help at least the minimum wage, they should not have domestic help. Most Americans have no domestic help and we live just fine. So for you Indians, in America, follow the American law.

The domestic help also gets her food clothing,housing, transportation and medical expenses paid for by the Indian taxpayers. How many american minimum wage earners have that luxury? The maid was living a much better life than the minimum wage earners, in fact almost as good as an american middle class person, who cannot meet her medical expenses or even afford complete medical insurance.

 

[notsuperstitious]

This is just BS. The americans should never have had any special privideges not reciprocal in the first place. This makes me just more mad at out foreign office, not any less.

 

[Fawkes]

Those upper class IFS officers have reached that upper class on their own merit, why should we be vindictive about them for reaching that class through hard work? And here the issue is not about one person.

She didn't reach there in her merit, but on reservation. Her father was IAS officer and a dalit, she still needed reservation to join IFS. I know I sound retarded here, but I can't agree on your statement.

 

[notsuperstitious]

She didn't reach there in her merit, but on reservation. Her father was IAS officer and a dalit, she still needed reservation to join IFS. I know I sound retarded here, but I can't agree on your statement.

She got govt subsidised properties worth millions not on merit too, it was just the ruling classes of India helping themselves to what belongs to the countless poor and honest. I have zero sympathy for that well connected rich woman now playing the dalit card. Her father comes out a total tool too. A bunch of thieves.

 

[airuah]

With devayani 's lawers statements of mis interpretation of the form by the US offcial smith itself shows that that the case may be shown the door. Secondly ( my own doubt) - technically speaking the indian consulate itself is Indian soil, so even if the diplomat commited a crime,she did it on Indian soil am sure all payments would have been made within the consulate...so how can US arrest someone for some thing done on Indian soil? ( in this case the Indian Embassy)

 

[Srinivas]

US Marshals behaved badly or not is very subjective. The question is did they break any legal procedures? There is none.

Yes it is subjective as she is representing India in USA and she is not ordinary USA citizen.

As for the consular officer arrested in the streets of NY, where else can she be arrested from? Consulate is out of question. Consulate car is out of question. Arresting a consular officer from the home is not well defined in the Vienna Convention. So there is only one place she can be arrested from and that is exactly what they have done here.

There are various places for the arrest and they have intentionally handcuffed her in Newyork streets.

Breaking of local laws has been done by US diplomats, Russian diplomats and even Indian diplomats like Neena Malhotra. That does not mean leeway can be continuously provided to the diplomats.

There comes my point, the diplomatic issues are resolved based on the power projection capabilities and India is signalling that it won't tolerate this kind of behavior and US local laws have nothing to do with this case, when the family members of maid were illegally shifted to the US.

As for the lawyer claiming a mistake, read #47 of mine here in this thread where I have posted the case details in DOJ site. Even the DS-160 which the lawyer claiming it as a mistake on behalf of the maid is being tied to Devyani and her computer address was used in filing and so the agent has filed that Devyani is the one who had filed the DS-160 on the maid's behalf who is illiterate. Looks like the agent afterall did not screwup.

Better they replace the lawyer with someone else. Otherwise Devyani is going to be screwed.

This is a huge error claiming 4500$ salary and the charge sheet is a screw up.

 

[Sashan]

Sure. If any consular officer has to be arrested, the consular general has to be notified first. He was not. Consular officers, even if they need to be arrested, should be treated with respect and dignity, and not by the same procedure that a common criminal is arrested. She was treated like a common criminal, and housed in the same facility. Consular officers are exempt from many local laws like the minimum wage law, for many reasons. The US themselves argued this when Iran tried to prosecute american consuls for violation of domestic laws. This is what the US argued in court at that time:

The reason I believe why US won against Iran in the ICJ against the arrest of consular officers is that the Vienna convention dictates that consular officers can be arrested when they commit a serious crime and the consular officers did not commit any crime.

In this case, Devyani's is a felony which warrants 10 years and can be arrested. Not sure where you got the information that consular general should be notified. If a protocol was broken, sure the lawyer can claim it in the court(or would have done so in the media as he had been doing so with the claims of the DS-160 form) and every opportunity for Devyani to get out citing a false arrest.

If Devyani wins the case in the court, she can file for damages. Beyond that whether she was treated with respect or not is all subjective. But DA has issued a statement that she was accorded certain courtesies not accorded to common criminals in that she was not handcuffed in public and arrested in a discrete manner, allowed to use her cellphone and allowing her to sit in the agents' car and was provided refreshments.

She didn't reach there in her merit, but on reservation. Her father was IAS officer and a dalit, she still needed reservation to join IFS. I know I sound retarded here, but I can't agree on your statement.

Not just that. Her father bent the rules even after she joined IFS to get things going her way.

The Supreme Court found this in a judgment that was delivered three and half years ago while reinstating a dismissed IFS officer Mahaveer V Singhvi and imposing a fine of Rs 25,000 on the Union government for wrongfully terminating the services of the 1999 batch IFS officer.

In this judgment, the court noted the sensational allegations of Singhvi against his batch-mate Khobragade. His lawyer Jayant Bhushan said, "Authorities were desperate to cover up the highly dubious and motivated manner in which the rules of allotment (of foreign language) were altered only in respect of the 1999 batch of IFS appointees in order to favour a particular candidate who was graded lower than Singhvi."


MEA 'bent' rules to favour Devyani Khobragade - Times Of India

 

[Sashan]

The domestic help also gets her food clothing,housing, transportation and medical expenses paid for by the Indian taxpayers. How many american minimum wage earners have that luxury? The maid was living a much better life than the minimum wage earners, in fact almost as good as an american middle class person, who cannot meet her medical expenses or even afford complete medical insurance.

Same question can be raised for Devyani and her colleagues here in US. She is being provided a luxury house in Manhattan where a single bedroom can go for $4500 per month and car and compensation for maid services and other perks but she is being compensated for the cost of living in US as well monetarily. So if Devyani can be compensated for the cost of living in US with money at the tax payers' expense while all the other perks were being provided including the ones you mentioned above, why not the maid? Or is it a different rule for different people?

 

[janon]

Same question can be raised for Devyani and her colleagues here in US. She is being provided a luxury house in Manhattan where a single bedroom can go for $4500 per month and car and compensation for maid services and other perks but she is being compensated for the cost of living in US as well monetarily. So if Devyani can be compensated for the cost of living in US with money at the tax payers' expense while all the other perks were being provided including the ones you mentioned above, why not the maid? Or is it a different rule for different people?

The maid is being compensated for living expenses. That's the whole point.

Does the defence secretary and his chauffer get the same salary? India pays DK what an Indian govt servant is expected to earn, and pays the maid what a maid is expected. DK is an IFS officer, and the maid is a maid. Obviously their salaries will be different.

 

[Sashan]

Does the defence secretary and his chauffer get the same salary? India pays DK what an Indian govt servant is expected to earn, and pays the maid what a maid is expected. DK is an IFS officer, and the maid is a maid. Obviously their salaries will be different.

You did not get me right? While DK is being compensated for the cost of living monetarily commensurate with her position, monetarily compensate the maid as well is what I am stating and that is what A3 visa states as well -It states that other perks should be minimum part of the maid's package as well.

 

[janon]

You did not get me right? While DK is being compensated for the cost of living monetarily commensurate with her position, monetarily compensate the maid as well is what I am stating and that is what A3 visa states as well -It states that other perks should be minimum part of the maid's package as well.

DK is paid by the GoI. The maid is paid by DK out of her own pocket, and she cannot pay the maid all she earns. By the way, this is standard practice by diplomats from all developing nations, and every Indian diplomat has done the same thing.

It would not have been a crime under US law if the maid was paid minimum wage, but none of the living and food and transport and medical expesnes were paid for. But the maid would have been worse off in that case. This is a case where going by the law is the less than optimal scenario, and that is why this law is overlooked for diplomats. The US has turned a blind eye to this practice all along, and there is good reason for that, as I just explained.

 

[Sashan]

DK is paid by the GoI. The maid is paid by DK out of her own pocket, and she cannot pay the maid all she earns. By the way, this is standard practice by diplomats from all developing nations, andd every Indian diplomat has done the same thing.

DK is being compensated by the GOI for the payment to the maid. If standard practice is lying in the visa, then they are entitled for similar action. Either sit and negotiate and change the rules for the payment to the maids so that diplomats are in the clear related to local laws else do not hire a maid - as simple as that.


The Finance Ministry is considering a proposal from the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) according to which the government will hire on contract domestic assistants for diplomats on foreign postings. At present, diplomats hire their own domestic assistants for which the government reimburses them as per their pay scales.
Plan to hire domestic assistants on contract for diplomats abroad - The Hindu

 

[janon]

DK is being compensated by the GOI for the payment to the maid. If standard practice is lying in the visa, then they are entitled for similar action. Either sit and negotiate and change the rules for the payment to the maids so that diplomats are in the clear related to local laws else do not hire a maid - as simple as that.


The Finance Ministry is considering a proposal from the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) according to which the government will hire on contract domestic assistants for diplomats on foreign postings. At present, diplomats hire their own domestic assistants for which the government reimburses them as per their pay scales.
Plan to hire domestic assistants on contract for diplomats abroad - The Hindu

There you go. As per their pay scales. Do you think the GoI will dish out the same compensaion for the maid as for the diplomat? The same arrangement exists for all govt servants back home as well - IAS officers get a salary, and the govt compensates the salary of their chauffers. Do you think they are both compensated to the same amount or even similar?

To give you numbers, a top IAS officer I know gets about 70,000 per month in addition to all his housing expenses in delhi. His chauffer gets about 20,000 and no other expenses.

If the maid is compensated for by the GoI, you can bet that the GoI will not compesante her to the same extent as the diplomat. Arresting the diplomat for that is ridiculous.

 

[Sashan]

There you go. As per their pay scales. Do you think the GoI will dish out the same compensaion for the maid as for the diplomat? The same arrangement exists for all govt servants back home as well - IAS officers get a salary, and the govt compensates the salary of their chauffers. Do you think they are both compensated to the same amount or even similar?

To give you numbers, a top IAS officer I know gets about 70,000 per month in addition to all his housing expenses in delhi. His chauffer gets about 20,000 and no other expenses.

If the maid is compensated for by the GoI, you can bet that the GoI will not compesante her to the same extent as the diplomat. Arresting the diplomat for that is ridiculous.

It is as simple as that - the local laws unfair it seem need to be abided by everyone including the diplomats. If the maid can't be compensated as per the local laws(and A3 visa clause as well), let the IFS officials not hire a maid and not break the laws. Afterall many Americans and even Indians who earn multiple times more than Devyani can't afford a maid. Why do many feel that diplomats are entitled to a maid?

 

[janon]

It is as simple as that - the local laws unfair it seem need to be abided by everyone including the diplomats. If the maid can't be compensated as per the local laws(and A3 visa clause as well), let the IFS officials not hire a maid and not break the laws. Afterall many Americans and even Indians who earn multiple times more than Devyani can't afford a maid. Why do many feel that diplomats are entitled to a maid?

That is how Indian society is, whether you like it or not. Almost every middle class employs a maid to do meniall jobs in their house. To turn your argument over, even people who earn far less than DK employ a maid. Govt officers, especially from the three prestigious central govt services, are given maids and chauffers and gardeners, even though they (the officers) get paid much less than people of similar qualifications in the private sector. To go by the same example of the IAS officer I mentioned above, even when he was a district collector, he had as many as ten personal staff in his house. (That has been trimmed down these days). The reason for the seeming extravagance is that menial labour is very cheap in India, and middle class Indians are used to having maids and gardeners. But they are not used to many other luxuries that the middle class in american society takes for granted. That is a difference of culture.

Now you may have an opinion that things should change and people shouldn't employ maids, because you don't see americans doing that. But that is a value judgement you are making about a cultural aspect of each society. On the whole, the standard of living of the Indian middle class is far lower than that of the americans, although we employ servants and they don't. What one culture sees as a luxury, the other culture sees as necessity. The american middle class has several cars at home, while the Indians have at most one. The amrican middle class flies in airplanes for most of their travel, while the Indians travel by train or bus. Americans cannot employ maids and servants, but Indians can, because labour is cheaper in India.

And the diplomatic corps of each country lives by the standards of their own country. That in why Indian diplomats earn far less than what a similarly placed american one does, but still gets servants and maids. They live according to how they live back home. That is the tradition for all diplomats - they are not NRIs or people who went abroad to earn a better living, but a govt servant sent there on a governmental mission. They will be provided the same lifestyle that govt servants in their position back home earn.

About local laws - there is a reason why diplomats and consuls are exempt from most local laws. In even the strictest muslim countries, foreign embassies can and do stock and serve liquor, although that violates local laws. There is a hilarious episode in 'Yes, Prime Minister', where the british PM sneaked out liquor from his embassy to an official funcction elsewhere, an incident that was rumoured to have happened in pakistan. The point here is that diplomatic staff on diplomatic passports are expected to live just like they liive back home.

They should be apprehended if they break a law that causes hardship to the local people, or anybody else. For instance, going on a murder spree. Although breaking labour laws is a crime, the reasoning for that crime doesn't apply to this case, because the maid lives a much better life than any american minimum wage earner does. That is why this law should not apply to Indians sent as maids to counsels and paid for by India.

Heck, DK herself earns only a fraction of what an american doing the same job earns. Why should the maid be any different? In fact she is - she lives a better life than an american maaid who doesn't get her clothes and food and housing and medical expenses get compensated.

So whether India pays the diplomats as much as american ones earn, or whether India pays them much less, but gives them priviledges like maids and chauffers, is for India to decide, based on Indian cultural norms. You cannot make a value judgement on that.