Developing Ties Between Pak, Russia, China, Iran & the CARS

[VCheng]

In the context of Aryan's post (in which he was talking about Pakistan surviving without aid), continuing on AID is not going to help either, given that, as you yourself pointed out, Pakistan's socio-economic indicators have been plummeting despite the so called 'billions in US aid'.

So his point is valid, and I don't see how pointing out ones place of residence has any bearing on the argument itself.

Yes, I understand what you are saying here; but my point is that it is easy to ask for more sacrifice from people who are already suffering, and thus my focus was on the people of Pakistan, not anyone's place of residence.

 

[lem34]

Yes, I understand what you are saying here; but my point is that it is easy to ask for more sacrifice from people who are already suffering, and thus my focus was on the people of Pakistan, not anyone's place of residence.

If I may be so bold I think an appropriete analogy would be a junky coming off heroin and going through cold turkey. And the drug dealer coming along saying that the junkie should be given heroin to alleviate the junkies suffering

back to topic I think this grouping in central and south asia is worrying for people who dont like pakistan

 

[idune]

back to topic I think this grouping in central and south asia is worrying for people who dont like pakistan

New emerging Central Asian grouping that has natural extension to Pakistan surely exposes artificial importance created for india.That artificial importance diminishes as US presence get reduced in the region. I have stated before specific reasons why. Now important things to watch for is what covert and overt activities US takes to foil such groupings and offcourse propaganda barrage.

 

[Screambowl]

we managed in the eighties and Im sure we will manage again. but why are you going off topic? I say pakistan has a great future with cars lol

with due respect, I don't have a habit of going off topic.
situation in 80's was much different than now. you could be stronger since you acquired the WMD but you are not socially secure state. Americans are well aware of how to lure and under such circumstances you cannot think of grouping, It is just a matter of time you'll see your leaders singing US-Pakistan friendship songs. Osama is found in Pakistan which has shook the world and any sanctions on Pakistan by UN might not surprise you if you do not co-operate with NATO.
Coming to close relations with Russia, Russia might not want to loose a 50 years old economic and defense and more over a STABLE partner and make strategic ties with Pakistan against India because their technology undoubtedly will be used against India by Pakistan. They know that Pakistan springs a lot.
Iran has far better relation with India and knows India is a potential superpower what Iran can achieve from single vote and backing of India in UN, will not achieve by grouping with Pakistan.

 

[Screambowl]

self deleted

 

[VCheng]

....................

back to topic I think this grouping in central and south asia is worrying for people who dont like pakistan

What "grouping"? There are only words, not much actual action until now.

 

[lem34]

In the context of Aryan's post (in which he was talking about Pakistan surviving without aid), continuing on AID is not going to help either, given that, as you yourself pointed out, Pakistan's socio-economic indicators have been plummeting despite the so called 'billions in US aid'.

So his point is valid, and I don't see how pointing out ones place of residence has any bearing on the argument itself.

Thank you for the claridication

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

New emerging Central Asian grouping that has natural extension to Pakistan surely exposes artificial importance created for india.That artificial importance diminishes as US presence get reduced in the region. I have stated before specific reasons why. Now important things to watch for is what covert and overt activities US takes to foil such groupings and offcourse propaganda barrage.

coulnt agree more. I am wondering how much of "pakistan being disabled is for this purpose". In fact I sometimes wander whether it was obama or tapi that afghan was invaded for. After all they could have done a shock amd awe withdrawn and pakistan incentivised sufficiently would have done their job a tad easier and cheaper.

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

with due respect, I don't have a habit of going off topic.
situation in 80's was much different than now. you could be stronger since you acquired the WMD but you are not socially secure state.

that sir is your opinion subjective and tribal to boot

---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

Americans are well aware of how to lure and under such circumstances you cannot think of grouping, It is just a matter of time you'll see your leaders singing US-Pakistan friendship songs

well the present circumstances with clsure of supply routes show that pakistan is able to resist american pressure. many other countries have done it is not new or rocket science. Countries do sometimes get sincere leadership though i acept we have had traitors and have traitors who have been bought out by americans.

 

[lem34]

. Osama is found in Pakistan which has shook the world and any sanctions on Pakistan by UN might not surprise you if you do not co-operate with NATO.
.

That is complete speculation there is no evidence whatsoever that pakistan or any of its agencies were complicit with Osama. On the contrary there was suggestion from Obama that it would not have been possible to find osama without earlier intelligence supplied ny pak.

As far as not cooperating with nato I think we would get a sympathetic hearing after all our sovnty is being attacked, our soldiers and pakistan are the victims of unprovoked atatcks. Nato has no god given right to passage through pakistan under international law. on the contrary Pak is still allowing its air space to be used by nato

 

[deckingraj]

well the present circumstances with clsure of supply routes show that pakistan is able to resist american pressure. many other countries have done it is not new or rocket science. Countries do sometimes get sincere leadership though i acept we have had traitors and have traitors who have been bought out by americans.

IMHO you are reading too much into this closure of supply routes...Why was such an action not taken after OBL incident??? It was pakistan who was caught on the wrong foot(allegiance or incompetence - call it whatever but OBL incident was embarrassing)..Similarly now US has been caught on a wrong foot...the mood is Pakistan is really really bad and US will do anything but push GOP in this regard at this point in time.....Something needs to change on the ground due to which GOP can now handle pressure from US, no??? Now do you honestly think something has changed???

 

[lem34]

with due respect, I don't have a habit of going off topic.
.

though I have tried to answer your concerns I must say it is easy to get off topic. The propoal is not anti america or anti india, nor it based just on pakistan. This is not even a proposal it is a plan which is allready in progress. Each of the four countries is doing what is in its own interest without doing "favours" etc. The net result of the independent actions is a loose economic area. As agno suggested it will initially more than probable be just that something whichh suits the participants. However all stand to make a lot of money.

It is america and in this context its sidekick india which may cause problems because they want a part of the action even though america is in no geographical position other than by proxy and in that sense enforce closer security cooperation between the 4 countries. this will not be because russians like or have loyalty etc to pakistan or any other participant but purely cos they wish to protect their income stream. Thats why i was suggesting we are going off at a tangent in going on and on about pakistan. There is more to the world than pakistanis and indian interests.

 

[deckingraj]

That is complete speculation there is no evidence whatsoever that pakistan or any of its agencies were complicit with Osama. On the contrary there was suggestion from Obama that it would not have been possible to find osama without earlier intelligence supplied ny pak.

As far as not cooperating with nato I think we would get a sympathetic hearing after all our sovnty is being attacked, our soldiers and pakistan are the victims of unprovoked atatcks. Nato has no god given right to passage through pakistan under international law. on the contrary Pak is still allowing its air space to be used by nato

Please understand the geo-politics...it doesn't run on emotions....You may get sympathy but sympathy does not mean support...What will Pakistan bring on the table that some country will stand up for Pakistan against US???

 

[lem34]

What "grouping"? There are only words, not much actual action until now.

stop being your usual obstructive and dishonest self in trying to derail this topic. Go and read earlier posts and maybe you can add the dots together

---------- Post added at 02:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

IMHO you are reading too much into this closure of supply routes...Why was such an action not taken after OBL incident??? It was pakistan who was caught on the wrong foot(allegiance or incompetence - call it whatever but OBL incident was embarrassing)..Similarly now US has been caught on a wrong foot...the mood is Pakistan is really really bad and US will do anything but push GOP in this regard at this point in time.....Something needs to change on the ground due to which GOP can now handle pressure from US, no??? Now do you honestly think something has changed???

please can we discuss this on the appropriete thread

---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

Please understand the geo-politics...it doesn't run on emotions....You may get sympathy but sympathy does not mean support...What will Pakistan bring on the table that some country will stand up for Pakistan against US???

as i stated earlier thsi is not about pakistan, nor pakistan. each nation will do what is in its own interest and that will lead to the formation in my opinion a strong economic grouping which may lead to a security grouping if america insists on interfering

 

[Obambam]

why do you have so much hatred for pakistan. India will never achieve its potential whilst you continue this narrow vision of the world.

Back to topic pakistan is moving in the right direction and is not at all obsessed or concerned with america and her proxies in our neighbourhood.

It is simple. They do not like to see Pakistan having good relations with China, neither do they like to see China have good relations with Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. To top it all off, when they see Russia having good relations with both Pakistan and China? Oh boy, let us imagine those repetitious thuds coming out of their chests, the cold sweat that's dripping and their body shaking enough times to tip over the Richter scale

 

[lem34]

It is simple. They do not like to see Pakistan having good relations with China, neither do they like to see China have good relations with Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. To top it all off, when they see Russia having good relations with both Pakistan and China? Oh boy, let us imagine those repetitious thuds coming out of their chests, the cold sweet that's dripping and their body shaking enough times to tip over the Richter scale

But brother China Russia Pakistan are not knocking or doing india or anyone down they are doing the best for their own people and these actions show the peaceful intent of the neighbourhood. The only threat to it is that american and through its proxies it wants peace of action basically wants money for its corporations.

 

[Pakchina]

From the Economic Times:

"BEIJING: Amid a deterioration in US-Pak ties, China has assured Pakistan's political and military leadership of its support in maintaining sovereignty and internal stability and promised to help its 'trusted ally' play a bigger role in global and regional affairs.

The assurance was conveyed to Pakistani leaders by top Chinese diplomat Dai Bingguo to Islamabad last week in the backdrop of tensions following the November 26 cross-border NATO attack in which 24 soldiers of the country were killed and open discord between government and army over a memo alleging an army plot to seize power.

Dai who concluded a two day visit to Islamabad on December 24 has assured China's policy of support to Pakistan "will not be shaken" despite any changes in the international landscape, Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman, Hong Lei told a media briefing here today.

"China also supports Pakistan to play a bigger role in international and regional affairs. China believes Pakistan has the wisdom and capacity to properly deal with relations with relevant countries and safeguard its own interests", he said.

Asked about the outcome of Dai's visit to Islamabad, Hong said the visit took place in connection with the closing ceremony of the 60th year of establishment of diplomatic relations and year of friendship between the two countries.

"The two sides exchanged views on China-Pakistan relations, issues relating to Afghanistan and other regional issues of common interest", Hong said.

Dai, whose official designation is a state councillor which in Chinese hierarchy is far higher than the Foreign Minister had held separate meetings President Asi Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbni Khar and Army Chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani."

China assures Pakistan of unwavering support - The Economic Times