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Deteriorating situation in Nagorno-Karabakh

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im Turk myself, so i do support Turks wherever they r, i do think that Turkey and Azerbaijan r our allies in the region. but the country comes first ofc, but i dont see any existential threat from neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan.

a sincere question. it's known that Iran supports Armenia against Azerbaijan. what is your opinion, as a shia Turk (right?), about Iran's stance against Shia Azerbaijan, the country that is basically your brothers and sisters by blood, through supporting Armenia? (or you can also read my post at #50 in this thread)
 
im Turk myself, so i do support Turks wherever they r, i do think that Turkey and Azerbaijan r our allies in the region. but the country comes first ofc, but i dont see any existential threat from neither Turkey nor Azerbaijan.

Dude, your problem is that you don't see the comments and anti-turkic sentiments of your countrymen.
An example:
Azerbaijan Republic does a lot of separatist tactics against Iran dude. They are definitely a existential threat.
^^^^
I do agree that Azerbaijan, and Turkey are not the ones who seek for trouble, but, mullahs definitely do, and they are doing it for their political goals which is avoiding Azerbaijan to prosper and make Azeris weak, since they are the biggest minority of the country, and a country is being stablished by part of them in mullahs borders, which has turned mullahs to be completely frightened.
 
If Iran is loved by their population why does it surpress its people so much? Because they know if they loose grip they will never get it back. It will happen sooner or later. It is not only Azeri who hate Mullah but also ethnic Persians. I heard that from Persians I met. There is only small radical nutjobs that support the Mullah.

lol ok but iran doesnt suppress anyone, iran is a country, a country ruled by ppl who r very religious. these ppl r not only Persians, khamenei himself is a mashhadi Turk, but majority of Turks dont consider him a Turk! even if we accept that khameni is not a Turk himself, there are still many Azeris/Turks in the iranian ruling class, so iran's case is not about enslavement of other ethnicities by a particular ethnicity as a matter of fact majority of ppl who have high ranking jobs in iran have been born in iraq, like larijani bros, etc... so u said it yourself the conflict is not among ethnicities. u need to educate yourself about iran more.
 
@p(-)0ENiX

That is possible about the IVC.

But that haplogroup predate any language group, ethnic group and people by a far. Nor did that haplogroup even originate on the Central Asian steppes etc. The percentage of haplogroup R is not minimal in the Arab world (Middle East). In fact it is the second most widespread haplogroup. J is the most widespread though while North Africa appears to be a blend between J, R and E. Most of Italy and Greece are not majority haplogroup R and even if they are that is not due to any invasion from Central Asia. They came there long ago since most theories point to the haplogroup R originating in the Middle East more presiely Anatolia so it is native. Aside from that then a Y-Chromosone is a small, small part of your overall DNA. That is why all Middle Eastern people closer more with each other despite differences in language, culture, religion than they do with South Asians, North Asians, South East Asians and Far East Asians. The people of the Middle East, at least the Arab world, also cluster much more with Southern Europeans (overall) and Europeans (minus Eastern Europeans who there seems to be very little affinity with) than we do with other Asians.

Well, it's assumed that as PIE tribes spread to different regions speaking dialects of the PIE language that eventually evolved in to different Indo-European languages. Of course cultural dominance & conquests played a role in this process as well. I never said haplogroup R1a originated in the Central Asian steppes, but proto-Indo-European tribes migrated towards both Central Asia & Europe. R1a originated in a region around the Black Sea, that much is certain, but the exact location could vary from northern Anatolia & even of course the Pontic Caspian steppes nearby. Greece, Italy or Europe in general never faced any invasion from Central Asia back then, & I think this is the point that confuses many people regarding this subject. The Mycenaeans & other proto-Greek speaking PIE tribes arrived from the region around the Black Sea which is considered to be the proto-Indo-European homeland. This homeland is where R1a originated. The PIE tribes that migrated to Central Asia (Andronovo) are the Indo-Iranians & they too began their migrations from the Pontic Caspian steppes. Greece & Italy naturally had an indigenous population already residing there before PIE migrations but cultural dominance & conquests led to the adoption of their languages, customs, Gods, etc.

The Latins (original people of Rome) tribe is another example:

Latins (Italic tribe) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Latins belonged to a group of Indo-European ("IE") tribes, conventionally known as the Italic tribes, that populated central and southern Italy during the Italian Iron Age (from about 900 BC onwards). The most common hypothesis is that the Italic peoples migrated into the Italian peninsula some time during the Italian Bronze Age (1800–900 BC).[2] The most likely migration route was from the Balkan peninsula along the Adriatic coast.[3]

Eventually, these tribes did assimilate with other indigenous populations, that's why the frequency of R1a varies. Western Europeans speak Indo-European languages but R1a is rare on that side of Europe. The reason for that is said to be some sort of conquests that resulted in the change of their languages & culture due to Indo-European elites. There are examples hinting towards that, for instance pottery style in Britannic & Gaelic geographic areas started to conform to the inferior styles of the Pontic-Caspian steppes. The Middle East is just a geographic location, & different people have roamed it for centuries, for reasons ranging from conquests to something as simple as trade. I think the term "minimal" was the wrong word to describe the presence of R1a in the Arab world, but the point being made was that some people belonging to the R1a haplogroups were absorbed in to Semitic communities & cultures in the past. As far as I know, R1a's major presence in the Arab world is more towards the eastern portions of Arabia & the Levant apart from some others. That in itself shows the affects of PIE migrations as well as their interaction with other communities.

In Southern Europe, for instance Greece, there is a heavy presence of the haplogroup J2, in fact I think it's the dominant paternal lineage over there, including parts of Asia minor. This haplogroup is also present in Semitic populations due to assimilation. Despite the presence of J2 in Greece, the original Greek speakers that gave them their language, culture, & of course religion are proto-Indo-European Greek speakers belonging to R1a. It's their elite dominance that resulted in Hellenic civilization, which includes various aspects of their society such as their deities like Zeus (the Sky father), the war chariot, etc. The haplogroup R1a is still present in Greece & Italy. The proto-Greek language is also the sister language of proto-Indo-Iranian. The map of the Kurgan hypothesis should explain multiple routes the PIE tribes took & Eupedia is an excellent place to get started on this subject.

Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) - Eupedia

I advise readers to visit the link above & read up on the Greek, Germanic, & Indo-Iranian branches of R1a & the Kurgan hypothesis in general to better understand this subject.
 
Dude, your problem is that you don't see the comments and anti-turkic sentiments of your countrymen.

i dont read all posts here. its a freaking 10 page long thread, but i have already stated that i do object to any insult against Turks, had u read my posts in Iranian Chilling thread u would know my stance on the issue.
 
a sincere question. it's known that Iran supports Armenia against Azerbaijan. what is your opinion, as a shia Turk (right?), about Iran's stance against Shia Azerbaijan, the country that is basically your brothers and sisters by blood, through supporting Armenia? (or you can also read my post at #50 in this thread)

I have a question as well ... Is Azerbaijan really governed by Shias? Or by secular liberalists who do trade with Israel, and plan with Israel against Iran?
 
Dude, your problem is that you don't see the comments and anti-turkic sentiments of your countrymen.
An example:

^^^^
I do agree that Azerbaijan, and Turkey are not the ones who seek for trouble, but, mullahs definitely do, and they are doing it for their political goals which is avoiding Azerbaijan to prosper and make Azeris weak, since they are the biggest minority of the country, and a country is being stablished by part of them in mullahs borders, which has turned mullahs to be completely frightened.

I don't insult Turks and don't have anti-Turkic sentiments. I am stating a known fact that Azerbaijan republic plots against Iran and has done so since its creation.

If you don't like Iran and prefer Azerbaijan that is your prerogative.
 
I hear that Armenian lobby is second most powerful in USA after Jewish.It will be a hard time for that region but I hope that war will avoid that two countries this time.Russia must stabilize situation becouse both nations have interests to enter Euroasian Union.
The Americans are now has the last chance to start a big war in the Caucasus. After 2-3 years will already exist Eurasian Union with a strong army and common borders.
 
@SOHEIL are you too an Azeri, seems so many Azeris here.
cancan.gif
 
a sincere question. it's known that Iran supports Armenia against Azerbaijan. what is your opinion, as a shia Turk (right?), about Iran's stance against Shia Azerbaijan, the country that is basically your brothers and sisters by blood, through supporting Armenia? (or you can also read my post at #50 in this thread)

im not shia, but as a Turk i do sympathize with azeris because I consider them my blood, Azeris r my brothers and sisters so ofc I do support them against Armenians, but iran is my father, meaning that as long as its Turks/Azeris against anyone else im up for it, but if its against iran i have to be on the iranian team, logic? ;)
 
I don't insult Turks and don't have anti-Turkic sentiments. I am stating a known fact that Azerbaijan republic plots against Iran and has done so since its creation.

If you don't like Iran and prefer Azerbaijan that is your prerogative.

Don't mind rmi5 … he is a clown who is trying to put words in your mouth ...

@SOHEIL are you too an Azeri, seems so many Azeris here.
cancan.gif

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Having said that then I would like to hear what is going on since Caucasus is an interesting area.

All I know is that Russia supports Armenia while Turkey supports Azerbaijan. Iran apparently supports Armenia despite the areas that border South Caucasus from the Iranian side are mainly inhabited by Azeri Iranians.

The diversity in terms of languages is quite amazing in Caucasus. From North to South and from West to East. There are so many small ethnic groups with totally distinct languages, cultures etc. It is as diverse in terms of languages as parts of Africa which is otherwise the by far most diverse area in the world. Often with a distinct warrior like culture. It reminds me of the mountainous areas of Hijaz and Yemen that are also inhabited by people of a similar culture of what I call "mountain warriors". Same can be said about many other people of the region and the world. Funny and interesting to observe those similarities.

I have always wondered how come many Caucasians show great affinity with the people of ME, often Semitic speaking (Arabs, Assyrians, Jews etc.) in terms of paternal lineage (Human Y-chromosme DNA haplogroup).

We actually have quite a few Armenians in the Arab world. Mainly in the Levant and especially in Lebanon.

Not sure about the accuracy of this short video. I am about to watch it.


This conflict is not much spoken about, Maybe gets 1/1000 of the coverage that the Israeli-Palestinain conflict gets. Really strange.
I hear that Armenians are really poor. There is quite a big community of Armenians in France and Paris and I met a few. Nice people overall. They have many funny sounding names but so do many Caucasians.

The Georgian alphabet is also something to behold. Very cool looking and totally different from others that I have seen.

You might find this interesting to read al-Hassani, it's about history of that region. But also for the other readers who might not know the ties of Iran and Armenia and blame Iran for being neutral or pro-Armenia, Armenian history is closely related to Iranian history.

From 1500BC to 1300BC an Indo-Iranian mitanni elite of hurrians ruled the area and the surrounding of what is known as Armenia Today.

Then from 600BC the Iranian medes rule armenia around 500BC the persians. From that time Urartu is called Armenia for the first time by the persians, written in the Behistun inscription.

Meanwhile the orontid dynasty (most likely of Iranian origins) rules armenia as a satrap of Persian empire from 550 to 320 BC.

Then came the greeks, but from 190 BC to 1 AD artaxid dynasty of Iranian origins rules Armenia. The artaxids produced the greatest and most respected king of Armenia ever, Tigranes the great who also fought against the parthians (branch of Iranians who ruled Iran.

After that the Arsacid dynasty of Iranian origins takes over the rule in Armenia and rules from 40 to 430 , they were parthians related to the parthian kingdom of Iran. The statue of the fist Parthian tiridates 1 (tirdad in modern persian) is build in Armenia. He was both a king and a zoroastrian priest. Meanwhile the sassanids have defeated the parthians in Iran around 230. The sassanids also make zoroastrianism state religion of Iran.

The arsacid parthians of Armenia and sassanids of Iran start wars, both being zoroastrians, the kings and the peoples and armenia seeking help from Romans in this conflict. Probably sassanids considered Armenian zoroastrianism as a wrong version, being influence by the romans (statue cult etc).

Then Saint Gregory the Enlightener, also of parthian-Iranian descent and related to Arsacids started to convert Armenia to christianity. So an Iranian made Armenia become Christian and baptized king Tiridates III in 301. In the beginning the common folk resisted the christianization of Armenia, their were revolts. Many of the pre-Christian (traditional Indo-European) festivals and celebrations such as Tyarndarach (Trndez, associated with fire worship) and Vartavar (Vadarvar, associated with water worship), that dated back thousands of years, were preserved and continued in the form of Christian celebrations and chants.

Now the Romals also being christian and helping christian Parthian kings of Armenia against Sassanids, the conflict becomes religious. Some christian-zoroastrian clashes occured within the sassanid kingdom till the sassanids finally invaded armenia in 430 to rule Armenia until 640. Different times sassanids tried to reconvert the armenians to zoroastrianism without succes.

It's said that the later Bagratuni dynasty of Armenia and Georgia (the Georgian branch is still alive) is indirectly descended from parthian-arcasid dynasty which would make the oldest monarchy of the world. Not everyone accepts this theory, however it's possible. The main Armenian house went extinct by the 12th century, while the Georgian line, in its minor branch, continues to this day as the nominal Royal House of Georgia. The root of the names Bagrationi and Bagratuni, Bagrat-, derives from the Old PersianBagadāta (god-given).

Another example:
The Zakarids (Armenian: Զաքարյաններ, Zak'aryanner), also known by their Georgian language moniker as Mkhargrdzeli (Georgian: მხარგრძელი), were a noble Armenian[1]–Georgian dynasty of Kurdish[2][3][4][5][6] (possibly Yazidi)[7] origin. Their name in Georgian, Mkhargrdzeli, or in Armenian: Երկայնաբազուկ, (Yerkaynbazuk) meant long-armed. A family legend says that this name was a reference to their Achaemenid ancestor Artaxerxes II the "Longarmed" (404-358 BC).[8] The family consisted of Zakare and Ivane of the Armenian Zakarian family, known in Georgian as the Mkhargrdzeli.

Pharnavaz I (Georgian: ფარნავაზი) was the first king of Kartli, an ancient Georgian kingdom known as Iberia to the Classical sources, who is credited by the medieval Georgian written tradition with founding the kingship of Kartli and the Pharnabazid dynasty. The Nimrodids, in Georgian Nebrot'iani (ნებროთიანი), which means the "race of Nimrod", is not a dynastic name but the term applied by the medieval Georgian annalists to the ancient Iranians. Hence, the dynasty, although in the female line only, continues to be called by the chronicles as P’arnavaziani ("Second Pharnabazid" as suggested by Toumanoff). Parnavaz’s mother is claimed to have been an Iranian. The entire story of Parnavaz, although written by a Christian chronicler, abounds in ancient Iranian-like imagery and mystic allusions, a reflection of the archaeologically confirmed cultural and presumably political ties between Iran and Kartli of that time. The name "Parnavaz" is also an illustrative example with its root par- being based upon the Persianfarnah, the divine radiance believed by the ancient Iranians to mark a legitimate dynast (cf.khvarenah).[3] The dynastic tag Parnavaziani ("of/from/named for Parnavaz") is also preserved in the early Armenianhistories as P'arnawazean (Faustus 5.15; fifth century) and P'arazean (Primary History of Armenia 14; probably the early fifth century), an acknowledgment that a king named Parnavaz was understood to have been the founder of a Georgian dynasty

Based on the medieval evidence, most scholars locate Parnavaz’s rule in the 3rd century BC: 302–237 BC according to Prince Vakhusht, 299–234 BC according to Cyril Toumanoff and 284–219 BC according to Pavle Ingoroqva.[1]

About the Armenian alphabet: The principal events of this period are the invention of the Armenian alphabet, the revision of the liturgy, the creation of an ecclesiastical and national literature, and the readjustment of hierarchical relations. Three men are prominently associated with this work: Mesrop, Patriarch Isaac parthev (Isaac the parthian), and King Vramshapuh, who succeeded his brother Khosrov IV in 389. Patriarch isaac and king vramshapuh (bahram shapur in persian) were from Parthian nobles.
 
Azerbaijan Republic does a lot of separatist tactics against Iran dude. They are definitely a existential threat.

r those tactics working? i dont see them really working, overwhelming majority of Turks/Azeris support iran's territorial integrity, Azeris were at the frontlines to defend their country in Iran-Iraq war, we have always been there to defend our country. yes we do have this sense of strong unity amongst ourselves but in the end our loyalty remains with our country, iran.
 
Thanks buddy. keep your Eurasian Union, aka Russians and their bitches, for yourself. no one needs it. even if Kazakhstan had not such a big Russian minority, and long borders with them , ... I would have said that they need to quit that union as well.
 
i dont read all posts here. its a freaking 10 page long thread, but i have already stated that i do object to any insult against Turks, had u read my posts in Iranian Chilling thread u would know my stance on the issue.
yes, I have read your posts. That's why I said so, since I know that you live in US like me, but you have less connections with Iran. So, your information about Iran is not complete buddy. there is huge anti-Turk sentiments against us in Iran, you can find it out if you get along more with FOB persians and kurds. if you bring the name of Azerbaijan, they would start to insult and mock you and tell jokes about turks. BTW, anti-turkism is a policy in mullah regime. just look at what they did when an earthquake happened in Azerbaijan. they aired a comedy show in the state TV in the night that hundreds of Azeris got dead, instead of being polite, and announce the news for people. they not only avoid to provide a good help for those poor people, even they did not let foreign countries such as Turkey to send their aids for people. and look at the houses that they built for lebanese after their clash with Israel and the tent look alike houses that they even didn't finish building them for Azerbaijanis. the list is very long, dude. :disagree:
 
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