Deoband ulema term all Taliban actions un-Islamic

[HAIDER]

KARACHI: Senior clerics of India’s top seminary whose version of Islam the Taliban claim to follow have denounced the actions of the hardline militia, saying the group does not qualify to enjoy affiliations with the historic madressah.

In an interview with a correspondent of the BBC Urdu Service, the rector and the head of faculty of Darul Uloom (Waqf) Deoband said attacks by ‘vigilantes’ in which innocent people died was not jihad but ‘individual zulm (oppression)’.

Seen in this light, attacks on shrines, barber shops and educational institutions were all un-Islamic. Maulana Saalim Qasimi went to the extent of characterising the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which was ousted by the US forces in 2001, as ‘un-Islamic’.

He said the Taliban did not comprehend fully the tenets of Islam even though much was made of their ‘Islamic government’.

He said Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam leader Maulana Fazlur Rehman, who supported the Afghan regime, was not a religious scholar. ‘He is more of a politician than a scholar.’ ‘However, his father, Mufti Mehmood, was a scholar,’ he said.

Maulana Aslam Qasimi, great grandson of Qasim Nanotvi, the founder of the madressah, said the recent statement by Sufi Mohammad that judiciary in Pakistan was un-Islamic was based on misconceptions and ignorance.

He said that Islam embraced concepts like democracy. ‘The spirit of democracy is very much there in Islam, though concepts like democracy have been taking new shapes and forms.’
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Deoband ulema term all Taliban actions un-Islamic

(Mod if you move to Pakistan war, sorry posted at wrong section)

 

[muse]

DarkStar


What do you make of this ? Any Disappointment?

 

[DarkStar]

Great to hear this, but sadly, the Deoband movement in Pakistan does not give much credence to the actual Madrassah in Bharat anymore, nor do they really accept the current scholars of Darululoom Deoband as having any sort of moral or religious authority over them.

The last great Bharati Deobandi Scholar that was respected by the Deobandi establishment in Pakistan was the late Maulana Abul Kalam Azaad, and we all know how long ago that was.

The fatwas and pronouncements of the Darululoom Deoband today have no real importance in the Deobandi thinking pervalent in Pakistan/Afghanistan and beyond, although there is reverence for its association with leading scholars of hte past.

 

[HAIDER]

But this school still has lot of influence onSaudies..

 

[muse]

Binori Masjid?

 

[DarkStar]

I think we're confusing teh Deobandi 'school of thought' with the Deobandi 'school' (darululoom) in Bharat today. They are not one and the same, and have not been since Partition. Many of the leading Deobandi scholars chose to migrate to Pakistani, like Muhammad Yusuf Binnori, Father of Mufti Usmani, Maulana Abdul Haq (father of sami ul haq) who was originally from akora khattak, MUhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi, and many others beyond mention. Other leading lights did not need to migrate, like Maulana Anwar Shah Kashmiri, Ataullah Shah Bukhari, Mufti Mahmood (Father of Maulana Fazlur Rehman aka Maulana Diesel), Maulana Hazarvi, Anayatullah Shah Bukhari.

The mantle has gone to Madrassas like Jamia Ashrafiya in Lahore, Madrassa Haqqania in NWFP (where most of Mullah Omar's deputees studied), Darululoom Korangi (of Muftis TAqi/Rafi/Shafi Usmani fame) and Jamia Binnori as muse rightly pointed out.

The Deobandi movement is completely independant of the Deoband Madrassah IN Bharat, and its statements and positions are sometimes derided by Pakistani Deobandis, alhtough it still holds a high position among the muslim communities in Bharat, and its edicts followed by dEobandis in Bharat.

 

[DarkStar]

But this school still has lot of influence onSaudies..

That's strange, since the more hardline among the Deobandi School and the Saudi SAlafis/Hanbalis consider each other heretics. Although both share the 'Wahabbi' tag bestowed upon them.

 

[wtf]

I think we're confusing teh Deobandi 'school of thought' with the Deobandi 'school' (darululoom) in Bharat today. They are not one and the same, and have not been since Partition. Many of the leading Deobandi scholars chose to migrate to Pakistani, like Muhammad Yusuf Binnori, Father of Mufti Usmani, Maulana Abdul Haq (father of sami ul haq) who was originally from akora khattak, MUhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi, and many others beyond mention. Other leading lights did not need to migrate, like Maulana Anwar Shah Kashmiri, Ataullah Shah Bukhari, Mufti Mahmood, Maulana Hazarvi, Anayatullah Shah Bukhari.

The mantle has gone to Madrassas like Jamia Ashrafiya in Lahore, Madrassa Haqqania in NWFP (where most of Mullah Omar's deputees studied), Darululoom Korangi (of Muftis TAqi/Rafi/Shafi Usmani fame) and Jamia Binnori as muse rightly pointed out.

The Deobandi movement is completely independant of the Deoband Madrassah IN Bharat, and its statements and positions are sometimes derided by Pakistani Deobandis, alhtough it still holds a high position among the muslim communities in Bharat, and its edicts followed by dEobandis in Bharat.

Is there any other term that can be used to describe the "Pakistani Deobandis" ? I mean if they were isolated for about 60 years, maybe the Indian Deobandi's should not have to justify themselves all the time for the Taliban actions (I would say it might be too much to ask the Indian Deobandi's to change their name since they are actually in the city of Deoband ).

I am asking this question out of ignorance, not a rhetorical question.

 

[DarkStar]

Is there any other term that can be used to describe the "Pakistani Deobandis" ? I mean if they were isolated for about 60 years, maybe the Indian Deobandi's should not have to justify themselves all the time for the Taliban actions (I would say it might be too much to ask the Indian Deobandi's to change their name since they are actually in the city of Deoband ).

I am asking this question out of ignorance, not a rhetorical question.

Deobandis are not a monolothic group. Religious sects, groups, parties are never static, they are always evolving and changing. That is the nature of religious organisations, groupings, just as it is the nature of people that comprise of such.

This is why you see the Anglican Church in the US allowing gay marriages and ordinations into the Priesthood, while Anglican Churches in AFrica have broken ranks over this. The very same church, with a strict organizational structure, has evolved differently in different continents, countries, so how about Islamic sects/schools of thought who have no organizational strucutre or priesthood?

The history of the deoband movement and its evolution is a big topic, however at times we have seen co-operation with the British Govt before Partition, then opposition to the govt. when a number of alumni were jailed in Malta, and Shaikhul Hind Mahmudul Hassan brought the Deobandis into the khilafat movement and non co-operation with the Brits, the movements of majlis e ahraar and tehreek reshmi rumaal , the siding of the majority of Deobandi Ulema with the Congress instead of the Muslim league, opposition to the creation of Pakistan and the subsequent flight for it, etc.

The deoband movement also split upon issues of creed, with the division into the hayati deobandis and mamati deobandis led by the likes of Ataullah Shah Bukhari and Inayatullah Shah Bukhari and Maulana GhulamUllah Hazarvi respectively.

Then there are differences regarding the fatwas on the Shia community, with some Deobandis taking extreme positions on the issue, and have embraced tennets of a sect known in the past as the Naasibis, basically those that hate the house of Ali.

Then there is the division between the more mystical minded Tablighi jamaat's, and more militant deobandis of the jaish/harkat/lashkar/sipah movements.

Although deobandism is not monolothic, and many have gone on divergent paths, they all get a claim on the word Deobandi, due to their adherence to certain early scholars of the Deoband School, such as Qasim Nantovi (the founder), Mahmudul Hssan (the first student), Rashid Ahmad Gangohi, Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Ubaidullah Sindhi, Muhammad Ali Lahori, Hussain Ahmad Madni, Zakariya and Ilyas Kandhalwi, and others. It is the shared reverence and adherence to creedal and practical doctrine laid out by the above that unites Deobandis all over the world, rather than the institution of the Madrassah in Bharat.

HOpe this answeres the question.

 

[Khalids]

BBC correspondant should have done the same interview with, say, Taqi Usmani, and then should have published a comparative story that how these two sides of deoband are making the masses fool in the name if Islam.

If we agree on the point that both the countries have utterly different Deobandis then why Ulema from Indain Deoband come to Madrisa ceremonies in Pakistan (If you recall 150th aneversery arranged by Pakistani Deobandis). And why they not outspeak against terroism when they are in Pakistan? They frequenlty visit Pakistani Madrisahs in annual certificates distiribution ceremonies. How can we say that they are different? Messing with the facts. And, interestingly, if they have no influence on Pakistani Deobandis, why BBC correspondant got these sort of fatwas from Aslam Qasmi Sahib?

Its just hypocricy. Say one thing in India, because its secular. Say the other thing in Pakistan because strugle for it was carried out by Mr. Jinah

When it comes to fatwas like Shia is kafir they become one. Why?

Sorry to say, they are traditionaly anti Pakistan, whether in India or in Pakistan. Its a famous qout of Mufti Mahmood that Allah ka shukr hai kay hum Pakistan bananey kay gunah maiN shareek naheeN thai.

Only the mureedeen of Mualana Ashraf Ali Thanvi are the section who supported Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinah.

 

[moha199]

Great job Ulma, Raise your voices against the enemies of Islam "The Talibans"

 

[SSGPA1]

I think their statement is important because they represent a large Msulim population in a neighbouring country.

Secondly, after all they are Muslim scholars their opinion should count.

Last but not least, these scholars have not said anything negative about Pakistan and I am looking at this statement as a support to the people of Pakistan and to the Pakistan Army's operation in NWFP.

 

[waraich66]

That's strange, since the more hardline among the Deobandi School and the Saudi SAlafis/Hanbalis consider each other heretics. Although both share the 'Wahabbi' tag bestowed upon them.

Deoband is only a madrasah ,they follow the Iman Abu Hanifa Fiqa , there are four recognised fiqa's Hanafi ,Safi,Hanbali,Maliki, .They recognised each other and respect each other.

Wahabi is also not any fiqa ,Wahab is the name of person who started struggle for independence of Saudi Arabia with King Abdul aziz.

Wahab and his follower dont follow any of four fiqa Imams.In Pakistan there are groups known as KAIR MUKALAD ,they also dont follow any Imam.JI and DAWAT IRSHAD also belong to this group also known as Ahle hadees.

 

[waraich66]

Great to hear this, but sadly, the Deoband movement in Pakistan does not give much credence to the actual Madrassah in Bharat anymore, nor do they really accept the current scholars of Darululoom Deoband as having any sort of moral or religious authority over them.

The last great Bharati Deobandi Scholar that was respected by the Deobandi establishment in Pakistan was the late Maulana Abul Kalam Azaad, and we all know how long ago that was.

The fatwas and pronouncements of the Darululoom Deoband today have no real importance in the Deobandi thinking pervalent in Pakistan/Afghanistan and beyond, although there is reverence for its association with leading scholars of hte past.

Deoband madrasah has great respect in all well known hanafi fiqa madrassahs of Pakistan they follow the same course developed by Deoband Ullema .
Hence we can say all mufti's following Hanafi Fiqa in Pakistan have no contradiction with Deoband Madrasah Fatwa.

 

[TalibanSwatter]

That's strange, since the more hardline among the Deobandi School and the Saudi SAlafis/Hanbalis consider each other heretics. Although both share the 'Wahabbi' tag bestowed upon them.

Lets recognize the wahhabi/salafi role in funding deobandi madrasas in pakistan. The saudi wahhabis have essentially tried to shape the deobandi ideology in pakistan in light of wahhabi/salafi teachings. That explains why there is a divide between the highly respected Deoband school of thought in India and the wahhabi-influenced 'deobandi' doctrine in pakistan that the taliban follow with great zeal.