Delhi varsity considers removing Allama Iqbal from syllabus

[surmabhopali]

And with this move, you guys are making sure you remain ignorant. so, good going. Keeping with tradition

Was he some scientist ? Why should indians read about him ?

 

[waz]

How thoughtful of them. Yes remove please.

 

[salarsikander]

I am happy that only a few remain to face the wrath.

False news as usual in India, but lynching and Burning Indian Muslim and alike in India is quite prevalent - calling muslims as Pkaistani and forcing them to to chant some lunatic stuff is Indian culture - too bad that you cant wipe them all even shit prpograms like ghar wapsi

 

[Olympus81]

Sahi jaa rahe hai.

Waiting for the removal of Taj Mahal and related relics.

 

[TriptiD]

Did you notice that characterising the Congress as secular was at the time of partition? Please don't post without reading and understanding what you are responding to.


That is certainly not what emerges from reading Savarkar or Golwalkar. The whole concept of the Two Nation Theory put forward by Savarkar makes no sense unless the Hindu, as a nation, is contrasted to the Muslim, as a nation.

I must have misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the ideas that were relevant for Indian political thought today.

In any case, at the time of independence, the Congress was a big tent party which included the likes of Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, and the Sangh Parivaar's political presence was virtually non-existent. Gandhiji himself employed Hindu symbology for political purposes and had even supported the religious Khilafat movement for political ends. Sure, Nehru was secular but at that time, the Congress had many leaders with RSS affiliation or sympathy, so I disagree that the two great competing ideas in India at the time of partition were the Congress' secularism vs the Sangh's bigotry. The Sangh Parivaar was too much of a fringe player for that to be true. There were far more fundamental economic and issues that dominated the political discourse at that time. The Jana Sangh, which was the political arm of the Parivaar at the time, won all of 3 seats in the first Lok Sabha election and the Hindu Mahasabha won 4.

The Sangh Parivaar only emerged as a serious political challenger to the Congress in the late 80s- facilitated to a great extent by the backlash against the Congress' policies of Muslim appeasement.

Perhaps you should consider that the Sangh Parivar has an impact where the voting population is deadened with superstition and religiosity, where industry does not have a footprint, and where the virulence hate language against Muslims is the strongest.

That is a very patronising and elitist view but is not borne out by facts. Maharashtra, Gujarat and Goa have some of the highest levels of economic/industrial indicators but have been traditional BJP strongholds, whereas the BJP has never formed a government on its own in Bihar, arguably the most backward state in India. They also struggled in UP, another supposedly backward state, until the Modi/Shah/Yogi trio managed to crack the code through a combination of savvy political engineering and delivery of governance on the ground. The southern city where the BJP is the strongest is Bangalore-the most economically developed city in the region. Even in Delhi, the BJP has swept the last couple of Lok Sabha elections and it is the AAP, and not the Congress, that has been defeating the BJP in local elections.

Perhaps the Sangh Parivar has less or no impact where the voting population is more evolved.

So the people of Delhi were backward when the BJP won 7/7 LS seats in 2014 and 2019 and became evolved when the AAP won 67 and 62 seats, respectively, out of 70 in the Assembly electi just a few months later in Feb of 2015 and 2020 ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I must have misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the ideas that were relevant for Indian political thought today.

No, no, no. Only a Congress supporter would defend today's Congress, or would ascribe to it the ideals of the Congress that existed at the time of partition.

In any case, at the time of independence, the Congress was a big tent party which included the likes of Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, and the Sangh Parivaar's political presence was virtually non-existent.

Well, no and yes.

Shyama Prasad was head of the Hindu Mahasabha, and had formed a government in Bengal as a Hindu Mahasabha leader with Fazlul Huq's Krishak Praja Party. He did retain strong links with the Congress, inevitable, given his cultural heritage and cultural standing, but those were used as much in opposition as in support. In the event, it will be recalled that he died of a heart attack while trying to influence events in Kashmir by intruding there physically.

You are right about the Sangh Parivar's political presence being practically non-existent.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Gandhiji himself employed Hindu symbology for political purposes and had even supported the religious Khilafat movement for political ends.

I have, after my initial distaste at this, and after sharing Jinnah's horror at this injection of religion into politics, come to the conclusion that this was brilliant political strategy, that positioning himself as a religious-minded Hindu with all the weaknesses and quirks of a religious nature that such public figures might be assumed to possess was the key to winning the attention of that 80% of the Indian population that lived in the villages.

Nothing else would have permitted the mobilisation of the masses.

It will also be recalled that, before him, the Congress was a gentlemanly bunch of petition drafters and composers of elegantly worded memoranda, with seemingly marginal effect on the colonial rulers.

Sure, Nehru was secular but at that time, the Congress had many leaders with RSS affiliation or sympathy, so I disagree that the two great competing ideas in India at the time of partition were the Congress' secularism vs the Sangh's bigotry. The Sangh Parivaar was too much of a fringe player for that to be true.

Perhaps I pitched the contrast too strongly.

 

[Joe Shearer]

There were far more fundamental economic and issues that dominated the political discourse at that time. The Jana Sangh, which was the political arm of the Parivaar at the time, won all of 3 seats in the first Lok Sabha election and the Hindu Mahasabha won 4.

The Sangh Parivaar only emerged as a serious political challenger to the Congress in the late 80s- facilitated to a great extent by the backlash against the Congress' policies of Muslim appeasement.

I agree with this, in large part, but have been questioning this myth of Muslim appeasement. NOBODY has come up with concrete instances of what form Muslim appeasement took, other than the brilliant and totally fabricated Jan Sangh proposition that there was appeasement going on.

As far as I can make out, that case (against the Congress) was made up of the reforms to Hindu personal law and failure to make similar reforms to Muslim personal law, a mythical injury to Hindu interests in the form of various legislative controls over the funds of the great Hindu temples, a step that was and continues to be falsely placed in contrast to the dealings with Waqf Boards.

There is, in fact, not a single instance of appeasement of the Muslims in concrete terms. There were approaches to the clergy, in isolated instances. Whenever the support of the Shahi Imam was sought, in public or in private, there were banner headlines.

So the people of Delhi were backward when the BJP won 7/7 LS seats in 2014 and 2019 and became evolved when the AAP won 67 and 62 seats, respectively, out of 70 in the Assembly electi just a few months later in Feb of 2015 and 2020 ?

Yes, paradoxical though it may sound.

My argument is that a long period of constant indoctrination has some effect, and the best example is Gujarat, a solidly Congress state that is now equally strongly a bastion of bigotry. That was and is what is taking place in Delhi and in the UP.

 

[NagaBaba]

Jeeves is the new Vishnu

 

[Joe Shearer]

Maharashtra, Gujarat and Goa have some of the highest levels of economic/industrial indicators but have been traditional BJP strongholds, whereas the BJP has never formed a government on its own in Bihar, arguably the most backward state in India. They also struggled in UP, another supposedly backward state, until the Modi/Shah/Yogi trio managed to crack the code through a combination of savvy political engineering and delivery of governance on the ground. The southern city where the BJP is the strongest is Bangalore-the most economically developed city in the region. Even in Delhi, the BJP has swept the last couple of Lok Sabha elections and it is the AAP, and not the Congress, that has been defeating the BJP in local elections.

Again, this looks very different when examined in detail.

It is far from coincidence that the strongest locations for the BJP have been the Brahmin-first locations. Let us look at the places you have mentioned, with this in mind.

Maharashtra gave the BJP a strong base from Nagpur and from Pune, both strongholds of the Brahmins. The success in Mumbai/Bombay was not that of the BJP, but of Thackeray's movement to rid Bombay of the ubiquitous south Indian.

Gujarat is an electorate that I would cite as a prime example of the cumulative effect of the RSS grassroots campaigns conducted against the backdrop of a steadily degenerating Congress culture.

Goa was a struggle between the Portuguese Catholic pockets and the increasingly stronger Hindu pockets, dominated from the outset by Konkanastha Brahmins (the Deshastha having sealed up Pune and Nagpur already).

Bihar was never a possibility because the caste line-up was already in the pockets of the Congress, through the Mishra brothers from Mithila. Subsequently, their loss of power was seized by the OBCs.

Both Bihar and the UP, it may be recalled, were places that were most strongly affected by the storm that followed the Mandal Commission report. Perhaps it is better to view the loss of UP to the Sangh Parivar as the increasing moral decay of the Congress creating a vacuum, that was not completely filled by the Yadavs and was quickly pocketed by the Sangh Parivar.

Bangalore, for that matter, Karnataka, is a perfect illustration of what I am alluding to. Bangalore itself is riven by the presence of the Kannada Brahmins in Basavangudi - you will find that the constituency has gone to the BJP - and of the domination of Iyengars (east of 8th Main Road) and Konkani Brahmins (west of 8th Main Road), that meant that Malleswaram and north Bangalore also went to the BJP. On the coast, the Udupi belt was no surprise, nor the Bunt-dominated gang war zones of Mangalore, or the very strong pockets in Hubli and Dharwar.

Think about it.

 

[Drexluddin Khan Spiveyzai]

Was he some scientist ? Why should indians read about him ?

Oh yeah, like Indians are writing theses on Newton and Euler otherwise.

Are only scientists supposed to be studied among the figures of history. I've said this before earlier in the thread, Hitler had a bigger effect on Independence than our leaders. Do you have a chapter on him?

 

[Laozi]

False news as usual in India, but lynching and Burning Indian Muslim and alike in India is quite prevalent - calling muslims as Pkaistani and forcing them to to chant some lunatic stuff is Indian culture - too bad that you cant wipe them all even shit prpograms like ghar wapsi

See that you are worried about Muslims in India while Pakistan has resolved the issue by systematic conversion and extradition. Indians need not worry about the state of remaining less than one percent of Hindus and Sikhs of Pakistan. They will be gone soon.

 

[surmabhopali]

False news as usual in India, but lynching and Burning Indian Muslim and alike in India is quite prevalent - calling muslims as Pkaistani and forcing them to to chant some lunatic stuff is Indian culture - too bad that you cant wipe them all even shit prpograms like ghar wapsi

We will do reforms on chinese lines .

Oh yeah, like Indians are writing theses on Newton and Euler otherwise.

Are only scientists supposed to be studied among the figures of history. I've said this before earlier in the thread, Hitler had a bigger effect on Independence than our leaders. Do you have a chapter on him?

If there is anything useful Pakistani , thesis, or writer of international repute we will consider it . Right now nothing is there .

 

[salarsikander]

See that you are worried about Muslims in India while Pakistan has resolved the issue by systematic conversio

AGAIN BULLSHIT AS USUAL

n and extradition.AG

 

[Laozi]

AGAIN BULLSHIT AS USUAL

Pakistani youtuber had to travel to a remote village to find Hindu community. Pakistani census will show that Pakistan is getting rid of Hindus and Sikhs. Jinah and Iqbal wanted a pure Pakistan. You guys are doing a great job.