Delhi gurdwaras to hail Indira Gandhi 's killers as martyrs?

[Spring Onion]

@Spring Onion, I am not justifying Indira's action(not her fan anyway), or even rajiv's subsequent inaction. Also sikhs have every right to demand justice for riots.
What is not on, is elected officials of an organized religion officially honouring a killer. These guys breached the sacred trust when they killed the person they were supposed to protect. They are worst than terrorist.

Their point is also the same that the NON-Sikh Indians have electedthe killers of Sikhs to govt posts and many are roaming free.

valid hypothesis.......but i would have a different take on the matter.....

for example in tamil nadu not many support the assasination of rajiv gandhi.....but most oppose the death penalty to rajiv killers.....and the reason is mostly because of the disgust at the way congress has handled the lankan tamil issue and not much with actual support to rajiv assasination......

supporting the killers of rajiv is their way they expressing their dissent at the way tamils have been adandoned by the congress....and actually the sikhs have a far more valid case than even the tamils.......

p.s im a tamilian.......

wohhhhh if the killer of the elected Indian PM is a Tamil even from Sri Lanka then Tami Nadu Indians will oppose death punishment for him/her


But if the killer of elected Indian PM is a NON Tamil read Sikh then they will play havoc with lives of innocent Sikhs by killing thousands and demanding death punishment for the killer.


please dont mince words and come up with excuses

 

[Kazhugu]

Why General Vaidya's killers?

Why Bhindranwale?

If you think there there is no religious angle here, or that anyone's suggesting all sikhs support this, then you are wrong. While justice for 1984 is a genuine demand - nay right, linking this shyte to religion makes it impossible for young sikhs to take an objective look at the matter.

because the truth is congress mobs targeted the followers of a particular religion........i agree with @Abingdonboy.......asking the sikhs to move on when they see killers like tytler and sajjan kumar still roaming free is not fair......

 

[livingdead]

Their point is also the same that the NON-Sikh Indians have electedthe killers of Sikhs to govt posts and many are roaming free.

two wrongs does not make it right, and I suppose a religious official should have higher moral values.
Indians have not elected them because they were killers, but because they were known leaders before. And if they go to jail or die tomorrow, nobody is going to call them martyr.

 

[Kazhugu]

wohhhhh if the killer of the elected Indian PM is a Tamil even from Sri Lanka then Tami Nadu Indians will oppose death punishment for him/her


But if the killer of elected Indian PM is a NON Tamil read Sikh then they will play havoc with lives of innocent Sikhs by killing thousands and demanding death punishment for the killer.


please dont mince words and come up with excuses

comprehension fail......i was supporting the sikh case........dont try to act smart and end up looking fool......

 

[notsuperstitious]

because the truth is congress mobs targeted the followers of a particular religion........i agree with @Abingdonboy.......asking the sikhs to move on when they see killers like tytler and sajjan kumar still roaming free is not fair......

We are discussing means here. Its possible even Bhindranwale had some genuine demands, but he declared hilself above law and had people assassinated at will.

Show me an Indian state where people do not have some complain or the other. They should use the democratic civil way of pursuing their cause. If everyone gets anti-national because they have a ''cause'' and starts supporting terrorism, then they must be treated like antinational terrorists. This applies to all states and all people, not just sikhs or tamils. Punjabis must choose india over their fellow punjabis from other countries, bengalis, gorkhas, nagas and tamilians too.

 

[Kazhugu]

We are discussing means here. Its possible even Bhindranwale had some genuine demands, but he declared hilself above law and had people assassinated at will.

why are u assuming i am supporting bhindranwale......im just giving you a rationale that supporting them is just a vent for the sikhs to express their discontent and it is not because all of then necessarily approve of the action of killing indira.......

that is why i gave the example of why many tamilians support rajiv's killers even though they might not support the assasination itself......i can understand that mentality espoused by @Abingdonboy.....

Show me an Indian state where people do not have some complain or the other. They should use the democratic civil way of pursuing their cause. If everyone gets anti-national because they have a ''cause'' and starts supporting terrorism, then they must be treated like antinational terrorists. This applies to all states and all people, not just sikhs or tamils. Punjabis must choose india over their fellow punjabis from other countries, bengalis, gorkhas, nagas and tamilians too.

if that is the case....they would be be in the army much much above their population percentage bro.....questioning their loyalty is not cool.......

oh btw a sikh by the name of HS Phoolka pursued democratic means to get justice for 1984 riots......all he got was one and half decades of running hither and tither.....nothing else.....as i said.....unless the killers like tytler, sajjan kumar roam free......the sikhs cannot move on.....

 

[notsuperstitious]

why are u assuming i am supporting bhindranwale......im just giving you a rationale that supporting them is just a vent for the sikhs to express their discontent and it is not because all of then necessarily approve of the action of killing indira.......

that is why i gave the example of why many tamilians support rajiv's killers even though they might not support the assasination itself......i can understand that mentality espoused by @Abingdonboy.....




if that is the case....they would be be in the army much much above their population percentage bro.....questioning their loyalty is not cool.......

I don't think we are speaking the same language. You are not understading what I'm saying and probably you feel the same about me. I'll discontinue.

 

[Kazhugu]

I don't think we are speaking the same language. You are not understading what I'm saying and probably you feel the same about me. I'll discontinue.

fair enough bro.....all im saying is until congress goons like tytler, sajjan kumar are outside, these kind of activities will be seen.....sikhs have proved their loyalty to india through blood....its our duty to soothe their concerns and make sure the people who were responsible for killing their community ppl are punished.....

 

[Spring Onion]

comprehension fail......i was supporting the sikh case........dont try to act smart and end up looking fool......

You were supporting the Tamil killers of Rajiv.

simple as that

 

[Kazhugu]

You were supporting the Tamil killers of Rajiv.

simple as that

strawman.....you are trying to weasel out after your initial claim has been busted.........

this is what you acccused me of

But if the killer of elected Indian PM is a NON Tamil read Sikh then they will play havoc with lives of innocent Sikhs by killing thousands and demanding death punishment for the killer.

which i did not do or demand.....

so its better you just stop making fool out of yourself.......if you can see my arguments i am empathising with the sikhs and defending their stance.......

 

[EzioAltaïr]

wohhhhh if the killer of the elected Indian PM is a Tamil even from Sri Lanka then Tami Nadu Indians will oppose death punishment for him/her


But if the killer of elected Indian PM is a NON Tamil read Sikh then they will play havoc with lives of innocent Sikhs by killing thousands and demanding death punishment for the killer.


please dont mince words and come up with excuses

He is clearly saying that he sympathises with the Sikhs not Tamils.

 

[DARIUS]

You are just BSing when you are saying Congress does not bother with the gurudwara because they are afraid of Punjab elections. So what you mean is that Sikhs by and large hail this idiotic move of celebrating killers of Indian PM and army cheif, who held the highest positions of Indian democracy?! You are labelling Sikhs as traitors while also licking the cr*p thrown by Sikh fundamentalists.
@DARIUS:

What is this twisted logic? If you extend the same logic, Sikhs should demand their own country because Jagdish Tytler was not brought to justice.

I am not at all endorsing the fact that Sikhs should demand a separate country,infact that entire sentiment have died out!!But the fact is unless the innocent victims of the 84 riots are getting justice the Sikhs who belong to the older generations would unknowingly continue clinging onto these fundamentalist ideas.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am not at all endorsing the fact that Sikhs should demand a separate country,infact that entire sentiment have died out!!But the fact is unless the innocent victims of the 84 riots are getting justice the Sikhs who belong to the older generations would unknowingly continue clinging onto these fundamentalist ideas.

Exactly!!
@fateh71 it simply cannot be overstated how much the '84 killings remain in the collective Sikh consciousness. The fact that no one has been held to account is just handing a victory over to the tiny,minuscule and dieing minority who are fundamentalists. The GoI is just shooting itself in the foot, and for what?? To protect a few of their own? Is this really worth more than giving justice to such a large section of their community? And the fact is the GoI has shown it can be done, the arrests and prosecutions after 2002 Gujrat have shown that there is the will inside the GoI to go after these a-holes. The Goi has set the precedent with 2002 and Sikhs are only asking for comparable treatment, is this too much to ask?

I'm not going to go down the line of "Sikhs have done this and that for India blah blah blah" this has been stated but is irrelevant because a community doesn't have to prove to a govt that it deserves justice- they deserve it no matter who they are.


And whilst there might not be a logical link between supporting the BGs who killed IG and being distraught at the lack of justic for '84, in many Sikhs' minds their is a link. All the GoI has to do is take some action and this will all stop. Like I have said above, I am at a complete loss as to why no govt since '84 has done anything meaningful on this front, justice would not be met with any opposition as far as I can see, no group would be upset (other than the accused) and the matter would be largely laid to rest.


The fact is the window to act is fast closing asana of the witnesses and even accused are passing away year after year. If subsequent Govts continue their line of inaction then in a few years justice will be impossible and this calamity will remain unresolved for all of time.


+ @fateh71 don't think for a second I havr implied that those still saddened by '84 are inherently of jr opinion Silhs need their own homeland. I have never met a single Sikh who has ever wanted this. It is actually insulting that your even think or say that 99.999% of Sikhs weren't 100% loyal to India.

 

[DARIUS]

^^^Yes including our Army Chief!!!Pakistanis on this forum have the tendency to drag in the sentiments of the Sikhs to serve there own purpose!!!Even Sikhs who are passionate about Bhindranwale do not endorse to Khalistan anymore.The Sikhs of India are settled all over the world and not to mention all over India as well.They are among the most well to do communities on earth.If someone have ever been to Wgah he/she would see the passion with which Sikhs wave the tricolor. . . . Khalistan was a gameplan and it won't be an overstatement if a I say the Brainchild of ISI.They wanted to avenge 1971 in some way and they tried to utilise the Sikh community by brainwashing selected people in the community who would in turn pass on these ethics to their near ones.It was a network.I know many Sikhs myself being one of them who are passionate about Bindhranwale and Bhai Rajoana but on the other hand are working in some high ranking administrative posts all over India and they simply love mother India.Every time a Khalistani terrorist gets caught in Punjab he i caught by the Punjab police which comprses of 80% Sikhs.People who try to stir up the feeling that Khalistan is still alive are simply trying to malign Sikhs in India o serve their own interests!!

 

[notsuperstitious]

Exactly!!
@fateh71 it simply cannot be overstated how much the '84 killings remain in the collective Sikh consciousness. The fact that no one has been held to account is just handing a victory over to the tiny,minuscule and dieing minority who are fundamentalists. The GoI is just shooting itself in the foot, and for what?? To protect a few of their own? Is this really worth more than giving justice to such a large section of their community? And the fact is the GoI has shown it can be done, the arrests and prosecutions after 2002 Gujrat have shown that there is the will inside the GoI to go after these a-holes. The Goi has set the precedent with 2002 and Sikhs are only asking for comparable treatment, is this too much to ask?

I'm not going to go down the line of "Sikhs have done this and that for India blah blah blah" this has been stated but is irrelevant because a community doesn't have to prove to a govt that it deserves justice- they deserve it no matter who they are.


And whilst there might not be a logical link between supporting the BGs who killed IG and being distraught at the lack of justic for '84, in many Sikhs' minds their is a link. All the GoI has to do is take some action and this will all stop. Like I have said above, I am at a complete loss as to why no govt since '84 has done anything meaningful on this front, justice would not be met with any opposition as far as I can see, no group would be upset (other than the accused) and the matter would be largely laid to rest.


The fact is the window to act is fast closing asana of the witnesses and even accused are passing away year after year. If subsequent Govts continue their line of inaction then in a few years justice will be impossible and this calamity will remain unresolved for all of time.


+ @fateh71 don't think for a second I havr implied that those still saddened by '84 are inherently of jr opinion Silhs need their own homeland. I have never met a single Sikh who has ever wanted this. It is actually insulting that your even think or say that 99.999% of Sikhs weren't 100% loyal to India.

I'm not, I never have questioned the loyalty or contribution of sikhs. Not only because such a claim would be grossly inaccurate, but also because I'm nobody to judge, as I'm merely a citizen just like any other citizen of india.

I'm 100% for justice for 1984 and how much I hate congress for the serious damage they have caused and continue to cause this nation for petty and/or vicious politics is obvious all over this forum. I will never for a second do not disagree that 1984 is a failure of India.

ALL I'm saying to you guys is to reconsider the implied stand that end justifies means. Bhindranwale thought his demands justified that he use violence and make Golden temple his terrorist HQ. Its not a civilised stand fit for a modern yet diverse nation.

I'm challenging young people like you to stand for principle when its difficult and emotionally challenging to do so, to reject that two wrongs make a right. And i fervently hope you get justice for 1984, and even more fervently hope we both are on the same side when that happens. But I will not be on the side of General Vaidya's killers.