Defence ministry goes global in search for Kaveri partner

[HeyAya]

What a noble spirit this is,thx for the advise.

 

[sancho]

I am sorry but cannot accept that. you cannot interchange parts of any engine. each engine is totally different...

That's not fully correct, cause the Kaveri-Snecma engine would have been based on the M88-Eco core, even if the size might need some modifications here, but changing things from a heavy class engine will be a whole different thing.
The Russians are not a generation behind, since 117S engines provide similar Supercruise capabilities as well and the AL 41 will bring it to NG as well, but India showed clearly during LCA development, that they prefer the western route (and that wasn't the best idea too).
Brahmos development is not comparable to any of the other co-developments, since it's more like a joint upgrade and our part was a field where we already have some know how. In the engine development field, there is not much we can contribute so far.

 

[Hyperion]

It's all about the alloys folks!

 

[conworldus]

Who are the potential partners in this case?

 

[OrionHunter]

The point is what the fu@k were the GTRE and the Indian government doing for the last three decades? Hundreds of crores down the drain. That's the tax payers money, for crying out loud!

The GTRE is nothing but a rehabilitation center for accommodating sycophant retired bureaucrats and politician's relatives at the helm.

Mera Bharat Mahan!

 

[IndianArmy]

The point is what the fu@k were the GTRE and the Indian government doing for the last three decades? Hundreds of crores down the drain. That's the tax payers money, for crying out loud!

The GTRE is nothing but a rehabilitation center for accommodating sycophant retired bureaucrats and politician's relatives at the helm.

Mera Bharat Mahan!

Cool Down, perhaps you think every development in the name of Kaveri is for the the same decade old engine. There are 3 projects running in our country, K-9,K-9+ and K-10 Engine. K-9 engines are giving you a thrust of 81.0 kN on full afterburner which is by far the best any nation has had in its first attempt.

France's SNECMA, with over half a century of successful jet engine development experience, took nearly 13 years to bring the Rafale fighter's M88 engine which is underpowered when compared to GTRE's GTX-35VS.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Who are the potential partners in this case?

General Electric, Rolls Royce, Possibly Safran Aerospace.

 

[sancho]

Cool Down, perhaps you think every development in the name of Kaveri is for the the same decade old engine. There are 3 projects running in our country, K-9,K-9+ and K-10 Engine. K-9 engines are giving you a thrust of 81.0 kN on full afterburner which is by far the best any nation has had in its first attempt.

France's SNECMA, with over half a century of successful jet engine development experience, took nearly 13 years to bring the Rafale fighter's M88 engine which is underpowered when compared to GTRE's GTX-35VS.

Seems like you didn't saw the reason reports:

K9/M88-2

weight: around 1200Kg / 900Kg
dry thrust: 49kN / 50kN
ab thrust: 70kN / 75kN

There is no K9+ yet, only the possibility to use a modified K9 for AURA UCAVs in future, while the K10 needs a foreign partner, since GTRE is not able to meet the requirements with Kaveri engine alone.
So all we have is a very long engine development that failed, since it didn't met the requirements and couldn't power the LCA. Now DRDO/GTRE are looking for way out of the mess they put themselfs in.

 

[IndianArmy]

Seems like you didn't saw the reason reports:

K9/M88-2

weight: around 1200Kg / 900Kg
dry thrust: 49kN / 50kN
ab thrust: 70kN / 75kN

There is no K9+ yet, only the possibility to use a modified K9 for AURA UCAVs in future, while the K10 needs a foreign partner, since GTRE is not able to meet the requirements with Kaveri engine alone.
So all we have is a very long engine development that failed, since it didn't met the requirements and couldn't power the LCA. Now DRDO/GTRE are looking for way out of the mess they put themselfs in.

 

[sancho]

That are the planned specs of K9 for LCA, not the one that really were achieved and as the recent news or the opening reports shows, K9 didn't met these specs.

 

[IndianArmy]

That are the planned specs of K9 for LCA, not the one that really were achieved and as the recent news or the opening reports shows, K9 didn't met these specs.

It seems to me like a brochure, Its really sad if the above were not achieved.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Seems like you didn't saw the reason reports:

K9/M88-2

weight: around 1200Kg / 900Kg
dry thrust: 49kN / 50kN
ab thrust: 70kN / 75kN

There is no K9+ yet, only the possibility to use a modified K9 for AURA UCAVs in future, while the K10 needs a foreign partner, since GTRE is not able to meet the requirements with Kaveri engine alone.
So all we have is a very long engine development that failed, since it didn't met the requirements and couldn't power the LCA. Now DRDO/GTRE are looking for way out of the mess they put themselfs in.

Problem is not with Design, its with the alloys (metals) , need to invest metal(alloys) which can with stand temp.

 

[subincb]

Problem is not with Design, its with the alloys (metals) , need to invest metal(alloys) which can with stand temp.

India lacks in metallurgy. but I remember reading somewhere that there is some inherent faults in the design as well of Kaveri which cant be fixed at this point.

The advantage of TOT for engine from other countries will bring in the initial engine and once that is done we wont need any ones help in that part. There will be a point in time when no other single organization will have such huge repository like DRDO set of labs. Boeing does their own set of research, LM their own etc etc, hardly anytime do they give each other the findings.. so going up from the point of first engine will be easier than other firms across the world. AESA tech developed for greenpine came to India and now we have developed Aewcs then Awacs, LCA Aesa on the process, WLR and Rajendra upgrade to aesa on process and so on..

DMRL, BARC repository for material is huge and they share everything.. its practically the same labs even though BARC is not under DRDO.. so much of advantage here..

now which country will give the tech to India knowing that it is the last time they sell that kind of technology..If we have the engine tech, we will expand it to all types of engines and then idea for using it in all types of aircraft.. so its risk selling us the tech. Our military demand is so huge that we can sustain development just for our military. We dont have to worry about selling it to other militaries around the world.