Defence ministry goes global in search for Kaveri partner

[kam83]

oh please, india can't even make mig-21 spares to stop em from crashing again and again for decades. that is with a TOT from russia. forget jet engine. lol.. try to make some simple rifle and ammo first, which you guys also having no success..

You have to learn concept of Ageing first...
Then You have to learn What is process of learning to build something you never tried before..
Then You have to learn to use Original Flag of Country you belong before u troll and not feel ashamed to use it..
I m not here to prove to you what we r capable of and what we are not.....only time will tell.....

You better start searching some blueprint to copy ........which is what u guys are good at falseflager

 

[IND151]

Well they tried but you can't blame them for all the misfortune that happened with kaveri...With all the sanctions imposed they still achieved
Military thrust (throttled): 11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
Full afterburner: 18,210 lbf (81.0 kN)

even after being a newbie,with huge redtape legacy at there doorstep...

I know you like all indians,want to see india self reliant in defence matter..... But you can't develop All that without facing failures...its not as easy as copying some blueprint to inches and rebranding it.....It got take it on a chin..Accept you short coming which you are not able to overcome even after trying hard...

But pls don't discourage the ppl........You may never know who is reading your post ..Encourage them......

IF we don't support our fellowmen nobody will.....And we will remain forever foreign military supply buyers

PS:- i m sorry if i hurted ur feeling,that was not my intention...

Add to that Laghushakti

I think it is spin off from Kaveri. would like your comment, Sancho Sir.

 

[3Idiots]

Atleast we know the facts for Kaveri (unlike hidden under the carpet WS-10 ) -

So, Dry Thrust = 50 kN achieved and is good for USAV.

Wet Thrust = 70.4 kN. Yes, it's short of 90kN what IAF wants and short of 81 kN, the original target.

Thrust critically depends on TET (Turbine Entry Temperature), which can be increased with improved material science (e.g. single crystal blades etc.).

So, we already achieved something.. and know what is the area to focus upon.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Obviously we're putting in money, what makes you think the vendors are out to do social service? And Russia is a strictly no go in this case, as they'll try to sabotage the whole Kaveri project and push in their own upgraded RD-93 engines.

You didn't get my point, I meant if GOI is ready to offer good amount of money for buying the teach. And do you think USA is a holy cow who will give us tech? Don't forget we are buying their engines and they know if we have our own , it means no US engine in future. Talks with French has just failed and that's why its global tender now. Russia shares its most complex tech with India, be it Akula or PAk-Fa or other systems. If Russia wont help, then I don't think any other player will help. There is only one solution to get the engine ready fast, its buying the whole technology if good price is offered and some one is ready to sell. Otherwise this foreign collaboration will remain a dream only.

 

[Anony]

Well they tried but you can't blame them for all the misfortune that happened with kaveri...With all the sanctions imposed they still achieved
Military thrust (throttled): 11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
Full afterburner: 18,210 lbf (81.0 kN)

even after being a newbie,with huge redtape legacy at there doorstep...

I know you like all indians,want to see india self reliant in defence matter..... But you can't develop All that without facing failures...its not as easy as copying some blueprint to inches and rebranding it.....It got take it on a chin..Accept you short coming which you are not able to overcome even after trying hard...

But pls don't discourage the ppl........You may never know who is reading your post ..Encourage them......

IF we don't support our fellowmen nobody will.....And we will remain forever foreign military supply buyers

PS:- i m sorry if i hurted ur feeling,that was not my intention...

Don't worry. "We shall overcome some day....Jai Hind

 

[Skull and Bones]

You didn't get my point, I meant if GOI is ready to offer good amount of money for buying the teach. And do you think USA is a holy cow who will give us tech? Don't forget we are buying their engines and they know if we have our own , it means no US engine in future. Talks with French has just failed and that's why its global tender now. Russia shares its most complex tech with India, be it Akula or PAk-Fa or other systems. If Russia wont help, then I don't think any other player will help. There is only one solution to get the engine ready fast, its buying the whole technology if good price is offered and some one is ready to sell. Otherwise this foreign collaboration will remain a dream only.

This is business, sooner or later we'll develop our own no matter what. Meantime between maintenance of Russian engines is poor compared to European/American engines, which much improved TWR. And if Americans does their maths right, there will be a requirement of more than 600 engines in two decades, if they makes a better deal then everyone wins here.

And Russians are known for their shortsightedness, recently they tried to mothball our indigenous armored vehicle program and tried to push their BMP-3. There are many such examples.

 

[subincb]

Possible options:

Eurojet (which includes RR and MTU), based on the EJ 200 of the EF

Snecma, based on the M88-3

Klimov, based on the RD33 MK

GE, based on the 414


Realistically only Snecma, or Eurojet will be options since they have modern engines and might be ready to provide sufficiant techs without restrictions, although both will come at high costs.
The sad thing is, that we could have combined this years ago with the LCA development from the begining, or when we searched an engine for the MK2. Again very poor planing and project management!

We are developing new engines, and they are not specifically for LCA, there are many which could help us, saturn, pratt and whitney, GE, Snecma, RR, or even may be klimov, honeywell and MTU. They all have the techs and metallurgy which we are lacking. I doubt EJ-200 tech is more advanced than F135, F136, F119 or AL-41F. We are not trying to build EJ200 here

 

[Sergi]

This is business, sooner or later we'll develop our own no matter what. Meantime between maintenance of Russian engines is poor compared to European/American engines, which much improved TWR. And if Americans does their maths right, there will be a requirement of more than 600 engines in two decades, if they makes a better deal then everyone wins here.

And Russians are known for their shortsightedness, recently they tried to mothball our indigenous armored vehicle program and tried to push their BMP-3. There are many such examples.

You are forgetting the American attitude Sir
No matter what they always try to keep their tech in their hands or attach so many strings. I hope they get your point

 

[SpArK]

Eurojet EJ200 should have won instead of GE414.

 

[Skull and Bones]

You are forgetting the American attitude Sir
No matter what they always try to keep their tech in their hands or attach so many strings. I hope they get your point

Exactly my point Sir. We're not buying off the shelf here in this case. It'll be joint development with total share of technology. If Americans can't get rid of their attitude, we'll always have Rolls Royce or Safran for the deal.

If some sources are to be believed, Americans did offered us a joint development of advanced trainer jet based on IJT-36 to replace the aging fleet of trainers in both armed forces. Shift in attitude?

 

[WHITESMOKE]

This is business, sooner or later we'll develop our own no matter what. Meantime between maintenance of Russian engines is poor compared to European/American engines, which much improved TWR. And if Americans does their maths right, there will be a requirement of more than 600 engines in two decades, if they makes a better deal then everyone wins here.

And Russians are known for their shortsightedness, recently they tried to mothball our indigenous armored vehicle program and tried to push their BMP-3. There are many such examples.

Exactly Sir, its all business. US don't want to share their tech, Russia also wants to sell their stuff, talks with France also failed as they would also have also tried not to share the tech.... so all comes to point zero again, which is if you want to get some high tech technology, offer something equivalent. Otherwise no one will offer it. Further as you said 600 engines are required so in that sense why would US sell us the tech as they know even for Tejas, we would need their engines for replacement and they might be also hoping for AMCA also. So I am not much positive about this global tender unless GOI offers a really nice deal either behind the curtains or openly.

 

[Sergi]

Exactly my point Sir. We're not buying off the shelf here in this case. It'll be joint development with total share of technology. If Americans can't get rid of their attitude, we'll always have Rolls Royce or Safran for the deal.

If some sources are to be believed, Americans did offered us a joint development of advanced trainer jet based on IJT-36 to replace the aging fleet of trainers in both armed forces. Shift in attitude?

Shift in attitude ??? Don't think so
The joint development of AJT is a old news sir. They recently denied us Javline on tech issue when they definatly knew we can get Spike which is as good as Javline.

 

[SpArK]

Exactly my point Sir. We're not buying off the shelf here in this case. It'll be joint development with total share of technology. If Americans can't get rid of their attitude, we'll always have Rolls Royce or Safran for the deal.

If some sources are to be believed, Americans did offered us a joint development of advanced trainer jet based on IJT-36 to replace the aging fleet of trainers in both armed forces. Shift in attitude?

If they have shift in attitude, they should allow Israel to sell us ELTA 2052.

 

[Skull and Bones]

If they have shift in attitude, they should allow Israel to sell us ELTA 2052.

Only a matter of time, personally i don't think Indian MoD is pressing them hard enough for the deal to be cleared. Or we could engage Selex for the Vixen 1000ES radar.

 

[SpArK]

Only a matter of time, personally i don't think Indian MoD is pressing them hard enough for the deal to be cleared. Or we could engage Selex for the Vixen 1000ES radar.

Most likely we are vouching for home made which is expected around 2070s.