Defence budget up by 18 percent

[VCheng]

You troll indian style.....
The source of your pain is perhaps about relationship in rise in indian defence budget and increase in terorism in side Pakistan.

At least our army is Pakistan national.
We are paying expenses for the children of Zardari who are not even Pakistani natoinal, all ministers and their family members are US national and list goes on to some key bureaucrats and ambassadors.

What kind of country is Pakistan?
Whose defence budget is discussed in assembly by foreigners !!!!!!!!!!

Every grain of this country belongs to the nationals of Pakistan not to those who travel abroad on foreign passport.

While one may disagree with the content of my posts, one can see the rationale and factual bases for my posts as well, save for those few made in jest or sarcasm, but only if one is not blinded by dogma and prejudice.

I stand by my post: Pakistan's economy is in no condition to put up with the size of the military budget it is being burdened with, and something has to give soon enough.

 

[BATMAN]

While one may disagree with the content of my posts, one can see the rationale and factual bases for my posts as well, save for those few made in jest or sarcasm, but only if one is not blinded by dogma and prejudice.

I stand by my post: Pakistan's economy is in no condition to put up with the size of the military budget it is being burdened with, and something has to give soon enough.

Where is the money? who was incharge of economy?

Army is already fighting war in 3 borders, with limited resources... and India has raised the budget of terrorism to $40 billion

you need to learn about the philosophy of defence budget? and sovereignty?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

To paraphrase: "Pakistan's military is writing cheques it's economy cannot cash!"

Pakistan's political leadership is creating that situation.

1. $3 billion to $5 billion per year lost through loss making Public Sector Companies.
2. Additional billions lost through indirect costs from the impact of inefficiencies and corruption in these PSC's that control extremely large market shares on businesses and the economy.
3. Billions of dollars in lost revenue annually from one of the lowest proportion of citizens paying taxes in the world, and huge sections of the economy exempt from paying taxes.
4. Huge cabinets at the Federal and Provincial level with billions of rupees spent on the perks and privileges of ministers who have absolutely nothing tangible to show in terms of progress by their respective ministries.

Add all of that up.

I believe (1) alone is close to the entire Pakistani defence budget, but we can't ask our politicians to 'reform' can we? They are still 'learning on the job'.

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------

Posts moved over from the other thread

 

[RazorMC]

We can address some of the issues by partial privatization of many corporations. PTCL is a good example of this. Etisalat gets management with 17% shares and look at PTCL services now. They are better and cheaper than the ones Etisalat offers here.

Second thing is to curb smuggling of goods from Afghanistan. Imported items are labelled as Afghan Imports, a lot of those never reach Afghanistan and are sold well before reaching the destination. Some cross the border and then bring it back as Afghan Exports. No taxes, no duties. This is how we lose billions of Rupees in revenues. There are many items that are marked for Afghanistan which are of no use to that country.

Define corruption as theft and penalize the culprits accordingly. You can see a lot of money being saved by these steps.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan's political leadership is creating that situation.

No Sir. In Pakistan, the military holds the real pursestrings by proxy, just like real influence and power. The present political leadership is there to act as a scapegoat when needed by the military junta.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No Sir. In Pakistan, the military holds the real pursestrings by proxy, just like real influence and power. The present political leadership is there to act as a scapegoat when needed by the military junta.

I could argue that it is the political leadership that is using the military as a scapegoat, with arguments such as yours, in order to absolve themselves of any responsibility for enacting economic reforms and good governance, and deflect away from their incompetence.

Please explain to me how it is the military that is preventing the sell-off of loss making PSE's, tax reforms, etc. that I outlined in my previous post. If you cannot conclusively prove that the military is forcing the politicians to not enact these reforms, then your argument is invalid.

 

[muse]

I could argue that it is....

But why OUGHT you do that? The appearance of a military proposing to a government what it must do in order to not effect the armed forces budget - certainly, everyone can do a better job, where else in the world does the military defend her procurement and budget by suggesting that the govt take the military's economic and political advice??

 

[SQ8]

If the political government is using the military as a scapegoat.. well.. its going to sell a little anyway, we know the Military's record when it comes to getting along with democracy..especially when that democracy threatens to eventually usurp all the perks that they hold for no reason.

If the Military is using the political government as a scapegoat, then its also possible.. after all, Mr K has taken his extension.. such a long time in the grandeur of the Army house got to Musharraf.. what makes mr K so immune to it??
It is one of two posts you can think of yourself as Lord of the nation on..
So target the government.. whilst letting it do its mistakes.. then wait for the people to get frustrated and ASK for the military to step in .
I think that is a plausible theory.. the military knows it has to come back, but does not want to repeat its past mistake of shoving its way in, it wants it done lawfully.. a bill perhaps.. so that when they want things done their way and the opposition cries foul.. they can bring up this nice legal document that says "We did not come in, you asked us, here is your signature... ".

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So target the government.. whilst letting it do its mistakes.. then wait for the people to get frustrated and ASK for the military to step in .
I think that is a plausible theory.. the military knows it has to come back, but does not want to repeat its past mistake of shoving its way in, it wants it done lawfully.. a bill perhaps.. so that when they want things done their way and the opposition cries foul.. they can bring up this nice legal document that says "We did not come in, you asked us, here is your signature... ".

And who would be responsible for allowing that? Is the military preventing the politicians from pursuing reforms and good governance? Do the politicians not really realize what it is that they have to do and what it is that the people expect them to deliver?

At the end of the day, if what you said comes to pass, the people responsible for it are the politicians themselves - they have the opportunity to not give the Army any avenue/opportunity to seize power.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But why OUGHT you do that? The appearance of a military proposing to a government what it must do in order to not effect the armed forces budget - certainly, everyone can do a better job, where else in the world does the military defend her procurement and budget by suggesting that the govt take the military's economic and political advice??

The military lobbying for an increased budget is not the issue - the inability of the elected politicians to enact tax reforms and sell-off/restructure PSE's costing Pakistan billions of dollars each year is the issue. The revenues lost from the latter exceed the entire military budget by very large amount.

And returning to the 'influence of the military' argument for a moment - how will you, or other Pakistanis, know when the military has stopped influencing the government? Certainly if Pakistanis keep letting the elected politicians off the hook by scapegoating the military and blaming it for its 'influence', the military is never going to viewed as 'losing influence', and the politicians have no incentive to change since the public just blames the 'establishment and the agencies'.

Until the public holds the elected politicians accountable for what they are supposed to do and refuses to buy into the scapegoating of the military, the politicians are not going to change their ways.

 

[SQ8]

And who would be responsible for allowing that? Is the military preventing the politicians from pursuing reforms and good governance? Do the politicians not really realize what it is that they have to do and what it is that the people expect them to deliver?

At the end of the day, if what you said comes to pass, the people responsible for it are the politicians themselves - they have the opportunity to not give the Army any avenue/opportunity to seize power.

Yet seizing power.. keeps the political process from going.. most of the politicians around we did not choose, it is a feudal oligarchy..
No one wants to abase the military alone, but history is testament to the military.. or rather its leadership being in bed with the very people it chooses to throw out every now and then.
A political process must continue, the awareness level is not what it was in the musical chair era of the 90's.
People see the reality, Musharraf's media miracle not only took him out.. it sets the target for others as well.
When you see a video of the Finance minster dozing off in parliament, you realize that no one is safe anymore.
But bringing a general in.. throws all that time into waste.. its back to square one.

 

[VCheng]

To add to the a few good posts above, just like the lack of an income tax on the agricultural creates an environment where nobody pays their taxes, the total lack of accountability for military budgets and their exercise of illegal powers creates the "culture of impunity" for all other sectors that is evident for all the world to see.

NOBODY should be above the law, including the military, just like ALL income, including agricultural, should be taxed.

Simple.

 

[SQ8]

To add to the a few good posts above, just like the lack of an income tax on the agricultural creates an environment where nobody pays their taxes, the total lack of accountability for military budgets and their exercise of illegal powers creates the "culture of impunity" for all other sectors that is evident for all the world to see.

NOBODY should be above the law, including the military, just like ALL income, including agricultural, should be taxed.

Simple.

Foundations like the military farms.. are able to thrive due to the absence of such systems..
Again.. one could argue that the multiple people employed by the military in their R&R facilities and at home.. are beneficial.. but then.. they are a massive drain on the exchequer..

My contention with the military.. has always been with the general..
get to a general.. and you are a multi millionaire for sure..
that is simply .. unacceptable.

 

[Doctor09]

its essential to increase our defence budget so that we can buy necessary equipments to defend our country and no one can deny this fact that with small defence budget we can not protect our freedom.............................but the economy should be more settled and we should also increase our educational and health budget too
CHECK AND BALANCE SYSTEM SHOULD BE TRANSPARENT AND NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW

 

[VCheng]

its essential to increase our defence budget so that we can buy necessary equipments to defend our country and no one can deny this fact that with small defence budget we can not protect our freedom.............................but the economy should be more settled and we should also increase our educational and health budget too
CHECK AND BALANCE SYSTEM SHOULD BE TRANSPARENT AND NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW

The defence budget, large portions of which are never audited, is already more than EIGHT times the education budget.