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Defeat in Afghanistan

It is unfortunate to witness so many baseless assumptions and conspiracy theories on this entire thread; most absurd of these assumptions is that there is “oil in the Northern Afghanistan that we are apparently after.” Give it a rest, even the “Iraq for Oil” conspiracy theorists have stopped bringing that one up. Also, I would like to point out a few facts that would probably help put in perspective this question of losing or winning the war. In order to determine that, we have to first identify and acknowledge what the goal of the United States was in Afghanistan. First, as we have said before, eradicating the opium cultivation, eradicating the Taliban, raising the living standard of every Afghan, were never our goals. So why would these be a determining factor? Our goal in Afghanistan was to dismantle and disrupt a terrorist organization, Al-Qaeda, who was being harbored by the Taliban.

Second, we need to stop spreading blatant lies such as “USA is filling its pockets by drug market” and “stability of the region is not in the interest of West”; these are lies and conspiracy theories, there is no proof for these just based empty accusations launched by our enemy propagandists. Third, you do realize that we are aiming for the BSA Agreement for a reason, right? If we had plans to abandon Afghanistan, why would we want a security agreement? We are, and have been, working diligently with our Coalition forces and the Afghans themselves, not only in reconstruction efforts but also in training and equipping different sectors of the government and military so that they would gradually be able to function without assistance from anyone. We have to understand that Afghanistan is not going to transform overnight or even in a short span of time one cannot reverse the damages of over three decades of war and complete economic depletion. The Taliban had sent Afghanistan and the Afghans back to the Stone Ages. For progress to take a solid shape time and persistence is required, which the Afghan people are showcasing. I have previously shared a list of statistical data ( Quality of Life) showing how much progress Afghanistan has made after the fall of Taliban and the resurrection of the new government chosen by the Afghan people. Afghanistan has the support of the entire international community, including Muslim countries, who understand that the only people claiming this as a holy war are the terrorists who want to recruit brainwashed people into committing suicide attacks.

Haroon Ahmad
DET – U.S. Central Command
www.facebook.com/centcomurdu
 
It is unfortunate to witness so many baseless assumptions and conspiracy theories on this entire thread; most absurd of these assumptions is that there is “oil in the Northern Afghanistan that we are apparently after.” Give it a rest, even the “Iraq for Oil” conspiracy theorists have stopped bringing that one up. Also, I would like to point out a few facts that would probably help put in perspective this question of losing or winning the war. In order to determine that, we have to first identify and acknowledge what the goal of the United States was in Afghanistan. First, as we have said before, eradicating the opium cultivation, eradicating the Taliban, raising the living standard of every Afghan, were never our goals. So why would these be a determining factor? Our goal in Afghanistan was to dismantle and disrupt a terrorist organization, Al-Qaeda, who was being harbored by the Taliban.

Second, we need to stop spreading blatant lies such as “USA is filling its pockets by drug market” and “stability of the region is not in the interest of West”; these are lies and conspiracy theories, there is no proof for these just based empty accusations launched by our enemy propagandists. Third, you do realize that we are aiming for the BSA Agreement for a reason, right? If we had plans to abandon Afghanistan, why would we want a security agreement? We are, and have been, working diligently with our Coalition forces and the Afghans themselves, not only in reconstruction efforts but also in training and equipping different sectors of the government and military so that they would gradually be able to function without assistance from anyone. We have to understand that Afghanistan is not going to transform overnight or even in a short span of time one cannot reverse the damages of over three decades of war and complete economic depletion. The Taliban had sent Afghanistan and the Afghans back to the Stone Ages. For progress to take a solid shape time and persistence is required, which the Afghan people are showcasing. I have previously shared a list of statistical data ( Quality of Life) showing how much progress Afghanistan has made after the fall of Taliban and the resurrection of the new government chosen by the Afghan people. Afghanistan has the support of the entire international community, including Muslim countries, who understand that the only people claiming this as a holy war are the terrorists who want to recruit brainwashed people into committing suicide attacks.

Haroon Ahmad
DET – U.S. Central Command
www.facebook.com/centcomurdu


So Haroon Ahmad,

You think the terrorist network has been dismantled?
 
I must have skipped that then :D To be really honest , what concerns me most is the situation of Pakistan post NATO withdrawal , leaving the success or failure analysis for either side , Taliban aren't going to get the throne of Kabul this time having managed to lose their only ally and the Yanks never visited that country to stabilize the region . Regardless of what many seem to believe , the situation isn't going to magically improve here somehow when the coalition departs . The Afghan Taliban and their Pakistani counterparts will join hand once there is relatively low resistance in Afghanistan and they can divert resources and man power easily to other side , they are more or less one and same , the ideology , mindset , practices and thought patterns all match , the condemnation statement from Afghan Taliban after Mehsud's death and constant help from other side of the Khyber Pass is a testimony of that . Now imagine what happens after 2014 , the West will lose all interest in this region just like what happened after the Soviet withdrawal , which means there would be little interest and by extension little help to the state of Pakistan . The law and order situation will further deteriorate if its not worse already , the crippled economy isn't going to have the O2 of peace anytime soon . Already , the state is all ready to surrender to the terrorist by the look of it - the talks at any and all costs . This is going to get very tough for our country here , the Muslim brotherhood will not help Islamabad , you have to fight this new war alone . The radicalized population will also not help , the monsters we created during the so called Jihad in Afghanistan are coming back to haunt us again . I see little hope with such weak military and political leadership . It even might get too late if the same indecisiveness continues , now this is scary , but this is the reality on ground . Act against them now or lament it forever , we cant find a common ground with terrorists , it amounts to giving up the freedom , writ of the state and sovereignty and all that we stand for . Only through understanding can there be recovery .

@Oscar Shall we call it the day after ?



You are missing a lot , my friend . Whoever disagrees with religious psychopaths and their ideology and practices , he automatically becomes a secular or liberal or both .

I hate to sound like Muneeb Farooq but Najam Sethi was on the spot when he said the Army is being its usual short sighted self in trying to control the Afghan endgame. I hate to say it, but more and more the only way to save the people of Pakistan seems to be to break it up(or create independent functioning units)
 
well the question here is whether Nato lost or not - what will be the Security situation of the Region - will it be stable enough??

I have been monitoring security situation in Iraq - with sectarian voilence on the rise and thirst for Power to rule the country - I wonder what will happen with 2 years down road in Afghanistan ?
will I be looking at same thing??
Most def. Everytime a "foreign power" leaves, it makes sure it has reasons to get back in and "provide its services"...

My guess is Afghan will go back some 50 years! It will take forever to heal the injuries not to mention the attention soldiers" rebels need to get the out of "the war mindset" which no one will provide to Afghanistan and in the end Pakistan and other countries might suffer...

America should have backed out in 2006 or something when it saw it was heading no where...A 5 year plan can tell you what crap is happening...but they took it all the way down because they had said some stupid speech "This is war on the world"....if they backed out they would have faced shame...I guess some hundred soldiers life is not worth as much as their face!!

what are you trying to prove?
taliban are some super humans?
they hide in caves, they know the terrain.
they are good against foreign armies but our own army knows our terrain and we hunt them down like pigs in the areas we go into.
Kid relax what he is trying to show in his own weird way is that America def has some other plan....No way can you drag a war for a decade in the twentieth century!

They may know their terrain but the Americans have been there for a decade with "latest machinery" which either has been used for testing or is just not as efficient as they were told? :unsure:

@Aeronaut @WebMaster @zakii @nuclearpak @Manticore @Jungibaaz

This thread should be closed or moved to seniors cafe, it is clearly unstable to talk about these issues....

Many want to take it for face value others want to ride on the sickening idea while some are delusional...Each know which category you belong to...If you cant sit and discuss each possibility please dont come across such threads!
 
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I hate to sound like Muneeb Farooq but Najam Sethi was on the spot when he said the Army is being its usual short sighted self in trying to control the Afghan endgame. I hate to say it, but more and more the only way to save the people of Pakistan seems to be to break it up(or create independent functioning units)

Just create more provinces. Give them more courts, assembly halls etc. Pakistan is a big country if you look at it. Four provinces won't cut it. The population is now actually more diverse than it was at Partition.

You have a rising ethnic group in interior Sindh and South Punjab. Those can be made two provinces. The problem is, these political parties won't let go of their feudal backing because they know they would become weak.

If there is one thing India did right after partition, was to re-organize their states.

Look at how they invaded Hyderabad, one of the most wealthy states, broke it up into three regions and now the name 'Hyderabad' is reduced to that of a city.

Baluchistan is effectively three different areas. We can do the same. Split it up into Kalat, Lasbela/Makran area and then Baluchistan that borders Afghan-Iran region.

All these new states/provinces will be part of Pakistan, but independent to take their own decisions. Give them High Courts and Provincial assemblies. That will make them more autonomous.

More courts are the need of the hour anyway.

Second step would be to actually make them autonomous. Let them choose their own policy of say taxation/law enforcement (except where federal laws supersede local laws) more like in the USA.

Some states legalize marijuana, some don't . Some have more taxes, others don't.
 
Afghanistan is the graveyard of superpowers, those Pakhtun are giving them a thrashing...Who knew what a few mountain men could do, eh?

Afghanistan is s@@t hole. Even brave momins like Zarvan wouldn't like to live there. What is there to be prideful for? for being in 12th Century? human trafficking, drug trafficking, suicide bombings, war lords and the list can can keep going on and on.
 
So Haroon Ahmad,

You think the terrorist network has been dismantled?

lol donatello,I was about to ask the very same question.
We know the answer very well.However,I reckon that their prime objective was achieved somehow as they claim:'Destroying this pest OBL'
Where as far as dismantling is concerned,I think that US officials could answer it better.However,I would like to add a question about 'recover and rebuild policy' and preventing dismentled organization in reuniting again-If they are dismentled.
-Regards
 
Even if the whole muslim world betrays Ummah your duty is to follow orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW your statement is like tomorrow when some one will sell his mo......... you will also do it but well pets of USA can do anything they nothing but mistakes of USA and I am not crying but soon seculars will cry a lot

It isn't our fault if Talibans supported 'OBL' and let Americans invade in Afghanistan.We can understand Russian invasion in Afghanistan,but to some extent Afghan Talibans seem responsible in provoking Americans by securing OBL.I ask you that what justification you will give behind protecting OBL?If any terrorist will blow up any city tommorrow then you want us to follow Afghan legacy and provide security to him?
You talk about Rasool Allah and so you know that Rasool Allah(S.A.W) also had deals with kuffars?He adjusted situations with respect to requirement in fantastic manner.Show me how Talibans did it?I am not defending Americans either and claiming that they are victim.Whosoever has studied history of wars will understand American gameplan as well,prime example is of Operation Woodland or Operation Mangoose and there are more examples are of American gameplan in earlier battles of world.
So,why Talibans supported OBL and didn't handed over him to Americans at once?
And please stop defending TTP who murdered our personnels,women and children.They are blowing up schools and destroying our lives while you are recognizing them as victims?I have heard that blast with my own two ears in which we have lost our bold CID officer Chaudhry Aslam,and you have no idea that how it feels when you hear a blast and told lateron that you have lost an officer.when your family members are outside and you fear of their lives.It is so damn easy to sit on your PC and sympathize TTP or whatever,but one needs steel nerves to face brutal face of death.
 
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First of all I would like to make clear, that I do not support this taliban, I support the Mujahid, who help build schools, who give aid and live in the way of Allah SWT.
 
A loss for NATO is a loss for the region. Stop cheering at the victories of the barbaric horde that is the Taliban, how many of your own people must be sacrificed before you realize this?
 
Afghanistan is s@@t hole. Even brave momins like Zarvan wouldn't like to live there. What is there to be prideful for? for being in 12th Century? human trafficking, drug trafficking, suicide bombings, war lords and the list can can keep going on and on.

ah you forget meethi , dhool and mountains :azn:

zaravan why dont u **** off back to ur talib mum and talib dad in some cave in afghanistan where u can preach ur bullshit.

no Mr , this is not the way of talking on a international forum .....:stop:
 
It isn't our fault if Talibans supported 'OBL' and let Americans invade in Afghanistan.We can understand Russian invasion in Afghanistan,but to some extent Afghan Talibans seem responsible in provoking Americans by securing OBL.I ask you that what justification you will give behind protecting OBL?If any terrorist will blow up any city tommorrow then you want us to follow Afghan legacy and provide security to him?
You talk about Rasool Allah and so you know that Rasool Allah(S.A.W) also had deals with kuffars?He adjusted situations with respect to requirement in fantastic manner.Show me how Talibans did it?I am not defending Americans either and claiming that they are victim.Whosoever has studied history of wars will understand American gameplan as well,prime example is of Operation Woodland or Operation Mangoose and there are more examples are of American gameplan in earlier battles of world.
So,why Talibans supported OBL and didn't handed over him to Americans at once?
And please stop defending TTP who murdered our personnels,women and children.They are blowing up schools and destroying our lives while you are recognizing them as victims?I have heard that blast with my own two ears in which we have lost our bold CID officer Chaudhry Aslam,and you have no idea that how it feels when you hear a blast and told lateron that you have lost an officer.when your family members are outside and you fear of their lives.It is so damn easy to sit on your PC and sympathize TTP or whatever,but one needs steel nerves to face brutal face of death.
Rasool saw never made alliance with kafirs to attack Muslims your government and forces did that and even sold Muslims to USA and islamically Taliban did right by not handing him to kuffar instead they offered to present him for trial in neutral Muslim country but USA and it's slaves in Pakistan were to arrogant to listen I know how to face death
 
Most def. Everytime a "foreign power" leaves, it makes sure it has reasons to get back in and "provide its services"...

My guess is Afghan will go back some 50 years! It will take forever to heal the injuries not to mention the attention soldiers" rebels need to get the out of "the war mindset" which no one will provide to Afghanistan and in the end Pakistan and other countries might suffer...

America should have backed out in 2006 or something when it saw it was heading no where...A 5 year plan can tell you what crap is happening...but they took it all the way down because they had said some stupid speech "This is war on the world"....if they backed out they would have faced shame...I guess some hundred soldiers life is not worth as much as their face!!

rightly said about the services part - be it Consultancy or the PSDs - Americans are the first and foremost to offer such services.

how could they have back down leaving a war in the middle - as you said - that would have been the defeat.....
 
It is unfortunate to witness so many baseless assumptions and conspiracy theories on this entire thread; most absurd of these assumptions is that there is “oil in the Northern Afghanistan that we are apparently after.” Give it a rest, even the “Iraq for Oil” conspiracy theorists have stopped bringing that one up. Also, I would like to point out a few facts that would probably help put in perspective this question of losing or winning the war. In order to determine that, we have to first identify and acknowledge what the goal of the United States was in Afghanistan. First, as we have said before, eradicating the opium cultivation, eradicating the Taliban, raising the living standard of every Afghan, were never our goals. So why would these be a determining factor? Our goal in Afghanistan was to dismantle and disrupt a terrorist organization, Al-Qaeda, who was being harbored by the Taliban.

Second, we need to stop spreading blatant lies such as “USA is filling its pockets by drug market” and “stability of the region is not in the interest of West”; these are lies and conspiracy theories, there is no proof for these just based empty accusations launched by our enemy propagandists. Third, you do realize that we are aiming for the BSA Agreement for a reason, right? If we had plans to abandon Afghanistan, why would we want a security agreement? We are, and have been, working diligently with our Coalition forces and the Afghans themselves, not only in reconstruction efforts but also in training and equipping different sectors of the government and military so that they would gradually be able to function without assistance from anyone. We have to understand that Afghanistan is not going to transform overnight or even in a short span of time one cannot reverse the damages of over three decades of war and complete economic depletion. The Taliban had sent Afghanistan and the Afghans back to the Stone Ages. For progress to take a solid shape time and persistence is required, which the Afghan people are showcasing. I have previously shared a list of statistical data ( Quality of Life) showing how much progress Afghanistan has made after the fall of Taliban and the resurrection of the new government chosen by the Afghan people. Afghanistan has the support of the entire international community, including Muslim countries, who understand that the only people claiming this as a holy war are the terrorists who want to recruit brainwashed people into committing suicide attacks.

Haroon Ahmad
DET – U.S. Central Command
www.facebook.com/centcomurdu
With all due respect chief - I never said that the whole point of Invading Afghanistan was its Minerals & Oil - perhaps you might want to read up on what I have said earlier - All I said and saying is - One of the reason US won is because they got access to country's minerals.
If I have said anything wrong over here - then please do explain about these
War-torn Afghanistan issues oil and gas tender - Telegraph

Afghanistan Starting Crude Exports This Year - WSJ.com

Dragon signs contracts for oil exploration blocks in Afghanistan - Pennenergy

Now coming back to your second point - then come one chief , who are we kidding over here - we all know how CIA made its black budget for operations, its something every Agency is involved in the world - heck our own agencies.

Coming to your third point - How are we going to define that US have actually achieved its goal of dismantling AQ? just by killing the leadership?
Look at the map and start marking the red zones where there is confirmed presence of AQ and its affiliates - starting from Iraq to Sudan and Somalia .

Its a very bumpy ride chief and We will have to work closely together - this was and is my main point.
Every stakeholder in the region will have to come together - be it Afghan Taliban or Russia, no one stakeholder can ensure the stability in the region.
 
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