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Decline of Islamic Science

@RiazHaq , do you have any links to Ghazalis work's? Ive recently been reading Ibn Khaldun's Al Muqaddimah (https://asadullahali.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/ibn_khaldun-al_muqaddimah.pdf). Wouldnt mind reading up on what Ghazali specifically has to say on Ijtihad.

With regards to the decline of the sciences in the Islamic world there are a multitude of reasons in my opinion. I am open to corrections.

1) One of the biggest reasons is the geopolitical change in the Muslim world which saw the decline of Ummayad Spain into Taifa's which the Christians gobbled up one by one. Roughly simultaneously the Mongols emerged in the East and ransacked C. Asia, Persia and finally Baghdad. Cordoba and Baghdad were the intellectual hubs of the Islamic world within which were stored the intellectual wealth of not only Islamic scholars but also the works of the ancient Greeks, Persians etc. To emphasize this point it is said that when Hulagu Khan captured Baghdad whereas usually the rivers were said to turn red after the Mongols ransacked a city, in the case of Baghdad the Tigris is said to have turned black because so much paper and parchments were thrown into the river that the ink from them turned the river black. Baghdad was of course home to the Bayt al Hikma (House of Wisdom), House of Wisdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The loss of major intellectual hubs such as Cordoba and Baghdad deprived future Muslims of the knowledge of their predecessors.

2) Building upon the first point, during the end of the Golden Age also began the Crusade for Palestine which saw the emergence of a Frankish Christian state right at the heart of the Muslim world. The resources of all Muslim states in the region were thus geared towards regaining Jerusalem and religious dogmatism will surely have entered the mindset of Muslims of that time i.e. we are loosing lands and wars because we are Bad Muslims, therefore we need to become more orthodox Muslims to regain our former political glory.

3) Up to the latter Middle Ages, the Middle East had been dominated ethnically by Arabs, Persians and pre Turkish Anatolians (Armenians, Assyrians etc). However gradually nomadicTurkic tribes started migrating into the Mid East bringing their warlike culture to the use of the Islamic cause in Palestine and Anatolia. A general rule is that nomads due to scarcity of resources and lack of a sedentary lifestyle will not attach that much importance to the sciences. The earliest humans for example were primitive but as we urbanized so did our ability to maximize our intellectual capacity. The migrations of the Turkic tribes thus changed the demographic makeup of large parts of the Mid East and being nomads who only gradually adopted a sedentary lifestyle they would have placed little value on patronizing scientists and men of arts as compared to the Abbasid Caliphs of Baghdad who had a vast amount of resources to allocate to such purposes.

4) With the eventual failure of the Crusades, the Islamic world was for centuries roguhly divided up into three major Empires, the Ottomans from Algeria to Iraq, the Safavids from Checnya/Azerbaijan to W. Afghanistan and the Mughals from E Afghanistan to Bengal. These three empires were largely secure in their borders and only occasionally had any major territorial disputes. Further they benefitted greatly form the tariffs they imposed on silk route traders carrying goods from E Asia to Europe.

If one thus juxtaposes late Medieval, early Renaissance Middle East/South Asia with Europe the situation is totally different. Europe which is roughly the same size of the three Islamic Empires previously mentioned was divided up into dozens of small states all vying and competing with each other for dominance. There was serious competition amongst these states thus and this prompted European rulers to invest heavily in the sciences especially in relation to warfare. The heavy taxes that the Europeans had to pay the Muslims for E. Asia goods also prompted them to look for alternative routes to the East which resulted in their discovery of the Americas (which they subsequently plundered and looted). Europe thus gained a major advantage over the Islamic Empires but only so because the Europeans due to tough competition at home had a greater incentive to invest in the sciences so as to stay ahead of their rivals. All this time however the Osmanlis, Safavids and Mughals were comparatively safe and secure in their borders and thus had no real incentives to invest in arms and naval technology, gradually thus falling behind.

You will find support for your explanation of the decline in Ibn Khaldun's work.

Haq's Musings: Search results for Ibn Khaldun

Ibn Khaldun has argued in his masterpiece"Muqaddima" that tribesmen and barbarians have often had more courage and social cohesion than settled and civilized folk. He cited many instances in history when rag-tag bands of ill-educated and uncivilized insurgents have swept in and conquered lands whose rulers became corrupt and complacent.

As to Ghazali, there's been a lot of discussion on Ibn Rushd versus Ghazali which illuminates the debate between Revelation-inspired Ghazali and Greek-inspired Muslim philosophers like Ibn Sina, Al Farabi and Ibn Rushd.

Ibn Rushd’s Defence of Philosophy as a Response to Ghazali’s Challenge in the Name of Islamic Theology
 
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You will find support for your explanation of the decline in Ibn Khaldun's work.

Haq's Musings: Search results for Ibn Khaldun

Ibn Khaldun has argued in his masterpiece"Muqaddima" that tribesmen and barbarians have often had more courage and social cohesion than settled and civilized folk. He cited many instances in history when rag-tag bands of ill-educated and uncivilized insurgents have swept in and conquered lands whose rulers became corrupt and complacent.

As to Ghazali, there's been a lot of discussion on Ibn Rushd versus Ghazali which illuminates the debate between Revelation-inspired Ghazali and Greek-inspired Muslim philosophers like Ibn Sina, Al Farabi and Ibn Rushd.

Ibn Rushd’s Defence of Philosophy as a Response to Ghazali’s Challenge in the Name of Islamic Theology



Riaz bhai

you are sadly trying to live in 1000 AD

The world has moved on.

If you want to learn how science changes, then start with some excellent work by Thomas Kuhn, then move on to other European philosophers.

Otherwise you will be stuck in sand dunes forever.
 
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Science is science....there is no such thing as christian science or islamic science.

A more relevant and appropriate question to raise would be:

What caused the decline of science in (Insert-Region)?
 
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hahahaha

Please do not confuse Holy Quran as a book to be presented as a scientific paper to be published in 2015 AD journal of Astronomy.

Because if you do, people will laugh at you, even if you have 10 PhDs.

Thank you
Riaz Saheb is probably of your father's age. Do express your disagreement but not let go our cultural norms of respecting elders. No matter how knowledgeable or analytical you may be but if you cant maintain composure while discussing then it will be you who will be laughed at and eventually ignored in the end. Your habit of ridiculing just about everybody regardless of their age and stature is disgusting in the softest words.
 
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meray piaray bhai,

if he is your abba Ji, show him all the respect beyond the norm of a forum.

Oh and while you are doing chummiyan to him, do point out where I disrespected him.

Thank you

p.s. you should be contributing to the thread instead of doing chummi chaati.



Wallahi,

you are the most sane person on this thread.

best regards
Disgusting.
 
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Pathetic to see you turning this into peronsal attacks.

Really pathetic.

Oh bhai jaan

contribute to the thread if you can. While this katoo peeto job?
Capture.JPG
 
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Riaz bhai

you are sadly trying to live in 1000 AD

The world has moved on.

If you want to learn how science changes, then start with some excellent work by Thomas Kuhn, then move on to other European philosophers.

Otherwise you will be stuck in sand dunes forever.

You call yourself a historian but you have no interest in history as a guide for our actions now.

This is in sharp contrast to Dr. Tyson who's using the reasons for rise of fall of Muslims to warn Americans against rejecting Theory of Evolution and climate change.
 
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You call yourself a historian but you have no interest in history as a guide for our actions now.

This is in sharp contrast to Dr. Tyson who's using the reasons for rise of fall of Muslims to warn Americans against rejecting Theory of Evolution and climate change.

Meray piaray bhai jaan

you could not answer constructive criticism and now throwing around personal attacks. Why?

I have great respect for Dr. Tyson.

My only problem is with cutters and pastes and blind propagandists.

A good historian should not use "Islamic science". This is incorrect in so many ways.

Starting with the wrong title, you continue to spread incorrect info.

Sorry to say
 
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@RiazHaq

Mr Haq,

You have a deceptive title for the thread----. What the heck is "decline of islamic science "---since when did science attain religious status---since when did it become a religion----.

Now if it is titled "decline of science in muslims"---okay---that is understandable---but you title is misleading.

Riaz Saheb is probably of your father's age. Do express your disagreement but not let go our cultural norms of respecting elders. No matter how knowledgeable or analytical you may be but if you cant maintain composure while discussing then it will be you who will be laughed at and eventually ignored in the end. Your habit of ridiculing just about everybody regardless of their age and stature is disgusting in the softest words.

Actually they are both in the similar age group---I don't know about the HAIR part.
 
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@RiazHaq

Mr Haq,

You have a deceptive title for the thread----. What the heck is "decline of islamic science "---since when did science attain religious status---since when did it become a religion----.

Now if it is titled "decline of science in muslims"---okay---that is understandable---but you title is misleading.



Actually they are both in the similar age group.
Well in that case I owe @FaujHistorian apology for using harsh words. I am sorry.

On your first point Mastan Saheb, I technically agree with both you and FaujiHistorian that using the word "Islamic Science" is not correct or should I say proper. However, it is not that this is not being used in printed text or that it is entirely incorrect. For instance, we do talk about Mayan Astronomy, or Egyptian Art, or Islamic art etc. But again, it is a bit misleading hence best not to be used.
 
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And yet the supposedly 'inventors' of the numerical were screwed up for 900+ years by the foreign invaders. I wonder what they did after inventing the numerical? Put those numerical in the ancient donkey urine -fueled flying objects and shot them into the space?

Maybe certain camel urine drinking cretins came and pillaged this peace loving nation and turn the region into the rathole it is now before it had a chance to reach its zenith.

Well the above said nation is resilient. Last I checked, inspite of the infection they endured, they were busy sending spacecrafts to Mars, while their so called invaders had devolved into bombing little children in school.

Cheers
 
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And yet the supposedly 'inventors' of the numerical were screwed up for 900+ years by the foreign invaders. I wonder what they did after inventing the numerical? Put those numerical in the ancient donkey urine -fueled flying objects and shot them into the space?
I didn't really want to respond to such an ignorant post, but I guess now I will.



the 900 years of so called rule conveniently forgets another 4100 years of what those inventors built... when today's prominent religions were no where to be seen... In the mean time these inventors built a civilization, that produced one of the richest and most diverse culture which still today proudly survives under the tricolor with the same sense of equity that those inventors left us with, which has seen it's ups and downs through last 5000 years, but still is alive and kicking.

These foreign invaders throughout thier conquests did succeed to carve out some populace and their successor states are indeed doing great deeds today by managing to stay in headlines every other week,essentially keeping the essence of their origins alive and kicking, and kudos on that.

albiet we cant fly our mythical legends as once might have been fantasied by ancient vedic thinkers, we can still put into ANY orbit whatever we like with the same Numerals ... whereas self proclaimed progeny our esteemed masters still cannot see beyond camels hump when not busy blowing each other up.
 
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