Debunking the INS Arihant "Damage" Claim. Did the Indian Navy really damaged a billion dollar submarine due to unprofessionalism?

[MastanKhan]

Nothing actually, it was just for a routine maintenance at the pier which was blown out of proportion by sensationalist journalists for a hitjob on Indian navy and SFC. (which happens quite regularly on indigenous platforms, latest being the ALH crash)

possibly funded by China after the Doklam Crisis (I Know I am going into conspiracy theory, but it's not really an impossible situation)

Hi,

Indeed---nothing really happened---yeah---. That is why it was down for a year---for a "nothing" mishap.

That hatch story was a convenient cover up to down play sabotage on the submarine---.

 

[Windjammer]

Hi,

Indeed---nothing really happened---yeah---. That is why it was down for a year---for a "nothing" mishap.

That hatch story was a convenient cover up to down play sabotage on the submarine---.

Give it a few years, like all other cover ups, reality will come to light once the water is under the bridge.

 

[Faceless]

Hi,

Indeed---nothing really happened---yeah---. That is why it was down for a year---for a "nothing" mishap.

That hatch story was a convenient cover up to down play sabotage on the submarine---.

you are free to believe whatever conspiracy you want (after all they are called conspiracies for a reason)
But can you provide any proof that it was unoperational for a year (actual visual proof like satellite imagery, not redirect news reports which ultimately cite the particular report I just debunked) , Arihant class subs are one of the least spotted vessels of the Indian navy and SFC, so if it was sitting in a pier for over a year there would have been some visual proof in the form of satellite imagery.

 

[Bossman]

Is this how you reply to a request for a civilized debate.

WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED.​

If my comments irk you so much, maybe it's time the forum should officially declare that the main purpose of the forum is no longer civilized debate on defense matters but trolling based on nationalities.

As for me going somewhere else, I just come to this forum to hear opposite opinions and to make sure that I am not stuck in any sort of echo chamber.
If my presence hurts your tiny ego so much maybe it's time you ban me and add a rule to the forum that indians are no longer allowed on this forum and the forum is exclusively for Pakistanis.

Who wants to have a civilized discussions with people who are inherently uncivilized, uncouth, bullies, lynchers, rapists etc etc.

 

[GiantPanda]

No There is not a far greater chance of a hatch being left open and damaging a submarine because there are no f*cking hatches at that part of the submarine.

As for INS Betwa, I won't be commenting on that because right now I don't know enough about the incident

Says you. There is no part of any submarine not affected by a hatch anywhere else on the sub. The whole ship is an enclosed system that gets submerged when in operation.

Besides the toppled frigate, India broke the nuke subs they leased from Russia multiple times so we know from India's track record what happened on Arihant most likely did happened:

India's only nuclear submarine damaged in accident

Taken on a 10-year lease from Russia, nuclear submarine INS Chakra is currently berthed at Vizag; will sail after repairs

theprint.in

‘Break In India’: Navy To Lease Another Nuclear-Powered Submarine From Russia Instead Of Developing One

The Indian Navy’s history of leasing a nuclear submarine from Russia (erstwhile Soviet Union) seems to be repeating itself. India has rented yet another Akula class submarine — dubbed Chakra III — in a $3 billion contract, as Chakra-II has been prematurely returned to Russia due to maintenance...

eurasiantimes.com

 

[Faceless]

Who wants to .have a civilized discussions with people who are inherently uncivilized, uncouth, bullies, lynchers, rapists etc etc

Exactly I was a fool to think I could have a civilized discussions with people like you @Bossman who are inherently uncivilized, uncouth, bullies, lynchers, rapists etc etc

 

[Faceless]

Says you. There is no part of any submarine not affected by a hatch anywhere else on the sub. The whole ship is an enclosed system that gets submerged when in operation.

Honestly this just shows your pathetic understanding of submarine design and how submarines operate.

If we are to go by your explanation (water entering from either of the front 2 hatches, and all internal watertight compartment doors open) then the submarine would have sunk at the bottom of the ocean (due to other damages that would have happened) before any water would have even reached the propulsion compartment

 

[Bossman]

Exactly I was a fool to think I could have a civilized discussions with people like you @Bossman who are inherently uncivilized, uncouth, bullies, lynchers, rapists etc etc

Why do you think you are a fool, you are a fool! Use some imagination Indian. I can prove everything I wrote in graphic details but you don’t know who I am. Better bugger off.

Honestly this just shows your pathetic understanding of submarine design and how submarines operate.

If we are to go by your explanation (water entering from either of the front 2 hatches, and all internal watertight compartment doors open) then the submarine would have sunk at the bottom of the ocean before any water would have reached the propulsion compartment

Smart a$$, the open hatch was discovered in time before the boat was fully submerged or compromised. The air tight compartment are usually closed only when on battle stations unless the IN keep them shut all the time as it doesn’t trust it’s submarines. Even if they were closed some compartments had water in them. Nobody said that the propulsion system was compromised. Think about propulsion system of a nuke submarine getting compromised. Why are you in denial that IN has an history of screw ups? Enough evidence has been given to you. It is the only Navy who had its ship sunk by a submarine after the Second World War. You are one of those typical Indians who come to this forum thinking that they are very smart and then get their a$$ handed to them.

 

[Faceless]

Use some imagination Indian. I can prove everything I wrote in graphic details but you don’t know who I am. Better bugger off.

Use some imagination Pakistani. I can prove everything I wrote about you and your nation in graphic details but you don’t know who I am. Better bug off.
be respectful to me and I will do the same but if you want I can keep this back and forth trolling going on as long as you want,

Smart a$$, the open hatch was discovered in time before the boat was compromised. The air tight compartment are usually closed only when on battle stations unless the IN keep them shut all the time as it doesn’t trust it’s submarines. Why are you in denial that IN has an history of screw ups? Enough evidence has been given to you. It is the only Navy who had its ship sunk by a submarine after the Second World War.

Tell me you don't have enough comprehension skills without telling me you don't have enough comprehension skills,
The news reported water entering in the propulsion compartment of the submarine which is in the back of the ship (where there aren't any hatches as I proved in my original comment) far from the 2 hatches present if the middle section of the ship so if water had entered the ship through a open hatch it would have to enter from those 2 hatches and any water entering from there would have sunk the ship long before reaching the propulsion compartment

 

[Bossman]

Use some imagination Pakistani. I can prove everything I wrote about you and your nation in graphic details but you don’t know who I am. Better bug off.
be respectful to me and I will do the same but if you want I can keep this back and forth trolling going on as long as you want,



Tell me you don't have enough comprehension skills without telling me you don't have enough comprehension skills,
The news reported water entering in the propulsion compartment of the submarine which is in the back of the ship (where there aren't any hatches as I proved in my original comment) far from the 2 hatches present if the middle section of the ship so if water had entered the ship through a open hatch it would have to enter from those 2 hatches and any water entering from there would have sunk the ship long before reaching the propulsion compartment

Are you autistic or what that you always repeat everything that is said to you. Were you the captain of the submarine when all this happened and you know everything. Why are you defending that even your government accepts. It was the hatch in the back, I clearly remember reading that many years ago. The news was leaked in India and not from Pakistan or China. Better bugger off before I go after you like many before you.

Your false premise is based on the assumption that multiple compartments getting fully filled with water will sink the boat; however a few inches or even a couple of feet of water in multiple compartments will not sink the boat. You don’t even know your basic physics. If there are no obstructions water will always maintain the same level. Flooding can mean anything from a few inches to the compartments getting flooded to the roof. Obviously it was not the later otherwise the boat would have been at the bottom of the sea

 

[Faceless]

Are you autistic or what that you always repeat everything that is said to you. Were you the captain of the submarine when all this happened and you know everything. Why are you defending that even your government accepts. It was the hatch in the back, I clearly remember reading that many years ago. The news was leaked in India and not from Pakistan or China. Better bugger off before I go after you like many before you.

Your false premise is based on the assumption that multiple compartments getting fully filled with water will sink the boat; however a few inches or even a couple of feet of water in multiple compartments will not sink the boat. You don’t even know your basic physics. If there are no obstructions water will always maintain the same level. Flooding can mean anything from a few inches to the compartments getting flooded to the roof. Obviously it was not the later otherwise the boat would have been at the bottom of the sea

I am pretty sure you are the autistic one, I proved all of my points logically and with proof, but you are just fixated on petty trolling and popular rhetoric instead of scientific logic.

My argument is pretty simple since there are no hatches near the propulsion compartment if water had reached the propulsion compartment it would have entered from the hatches in the middle section of the ship which means there would have been far more damage to the ship than just propulsion compartment, which would have sunk the ship

 

[Bossman]

I am pretty sure you are the autistic one, I proved all of my points logically and with proof, but you are just fixated on petty trolling and popular rhetoric instead of scientific logic.

My argument is pretty simple since there are no hatches near the propulsion compartment if water had reached the propulsion compartment it would have entered from the hatches in the middle section of the ship which means there would have been far more damage to the ship than just propulsion compartment, which would have sunk the ship

The issue with your type is that you guys are so stupid that you don’t realize how stupid you are? What do you mean by the propulsion compartment in a nuke sub? The reactor, which is always in the middle of a sub or the batteries and the motor which are usually in towards the rear end but in the lower level. I will repeat my self again, remember there is a force called gravity and water will always move towards the lower level and will find any opening. You don’t have to flood a compartment to the roof to damage it. A few inches to a few feet of water can do the damage without sinking the boat. This is entirely feasible and the only reason you are denying it is because it hurts your feel to realize that the IN is so stupid to do it. But then your Navy, Airforce and the Army have long history of scoring self-goals. You must be a prime candidate to join the Indian military.

 

[Bossman]

See #5 its the engineering hatch in the rear right above the propulsion compartment, which was left open. It is as big as your a$$@. #ucking looser. So much for the logical and scientific approach and the civilized discussion. Typical fake “analytical” Indian with a self-important condescending attitude.

 

[Skimming]

View attachment 924278


A sure sign you lost the argument. You want me post pictures of Sikhs destroying Indian flags or Indian drinking cow piss or eating cow dung.

I was never in this argument. I haven't even read most of it. Just wanted to show you picture of one Chinese standing on a Pakistani car bonnet, another Chinese sitting on it and probably few other Chinese standing beside it.

 

[indushek]

Note : To Whomsoever It may concern, Do not comment on this thread if you don't have anything productive to add, If you want to ask questions or engage in genuine debate be my guest but if you just want to mindlessly troll then please take your sorry A$$ and Leave.​

View attachment 923938

This whole ruckus started after The Hindu (a major Indian news publication) reported "INS Arihant was left crippled after an 'accident' 10 months ago"

The claims in this report are so absurd and filled with technical inconsistencies that anyone with even a basic understanding of submarine design and operational procedures would laugh at them, But then again, who needs that when you can just bang your head at the keyboard and call it a news report.





The Arihant has no hatches in the propulsion section as it is based on a Russian double hull design with a sealed nuclear reactor section (inspired by the Akula class submarines). The reactor is completely isolated and inaccesible in any way to prevent any potential nuclear contamination.
Although the Arihant's reactor is not designed to operate for the submarine's lifetime, refueling will require cutting open the hull and welding it back together.



Additionally, there are no external hatches in the compartment that houses the steam turbine, gearbox, generator, and propeller shaft either. Under normal circumstances, it is not possible for sea water to enter the submarine, and certainly not via a ‘non-existent hatch’.
Considering the sophistication and so many advanced sensors present on a modern submarine, it cannot be possible for a submarine to not be equipped with an open hatch warning system.





Ministry of defence has always tried to keep things even remotely related to India's Strategic forces command (SFC) under the wraps due to national security concerns. For example, the ministry refused to divulge any details about the number of nuclear warheads or what nuclear delivery platforms India has, citing security concerns. so ministry's refusal to give any detail regarding such an important asset of the SFC should not come as a surprise.





While its true that INS Arihant underwent some repairs at SBC Visakhapatnam they were minor in nature and were part of routine maintenance and checkups. This fact becomes evident from satellite imagery which shows that the enclosed pier was visible for only a month which is long enough for routine checkups and minor repairs but not for major repairs needed for fixing the damages caused in the alleged accident.





This particular allegation is highly unlikely as INS Arihant is operated by the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) of the Nuclear Command Authority (NCA) which comprises of figures like the Prime Minister of India, Chief of Army Staff, National Security Adviser and R&AW Secretary.

It is improbable that such a significant and powerful body did not know about the status of such an important strategic asset for 10 months given that sea-based nuclear deterrence requires a mated warhead and a vehicle carrying such warheads will be under constant C4ISR from the SFC and a failure to do so would mean an across-the-board failure of intelligence and the checks and balances in place which is highly unlikely.

Not to mention that the civilian leadership asking for India's nuclear assets to be deployed during the Doklam crisis itself is highly unlikely as the Doklam crisis was not high up enough on the escalation ladder to warrant such an extreme measure as both countries have a no first use policy regarding their nuclear weapons.
In addition, India at the time only operated K-15 SLBMs with a maximum range of 1500km, which was not enough for a credible sea-based deterrence against China.



Therefore, it is evident that the INS Arihant did not suffer any stupid accident like leaving a hatch open and this report is just a worthless piece of propaganda intended against India and its armed forces.

You need to understand, one thing about trying to debunk anything wrt our Armed forces when it comes to stories in Indian Media.

There are basically handful of journalists, who have any kind of basic knowledge about Defence equipment and the way a Armed force works. So the pendulum on reportage, swings between two extremes, we have the best in the world/our guys and equipment are the worst in the world. There is a third factor as well, of foreign contractors and nexus with our media, to push the foreign sales in.

There are many podcasts happening these days, of how our journalists have operated for past half century or more. You are thinking it's just a hit job, no there is much more malicious to it. I am not saying everyone is like that, there is a high degree of ineptness too (since we need to be objective in our criticism). Lastly it's really new for people in our Armed forces, who have always gone for foreign purchases to suddenly work with and promote local platforms (barring Navy of course).

So when your own gold turns out to be dubious, there is no point in draining yourself here to debunk something that never happened. Let us agree for one moment that some sort of accident happened on Arihant, even then it's nothing to be so worried as it's our first attempt. Arighat i think is out, and S4 if I remember correctly with higher displacement is out for trials as well. So called professional forces Internationally, have face much worse accidents. The important thing in this whole episode, is how confident our Navy was with the SSBN line we are constructing. If there was any doubt in their minds, Navy out of all three wings who go the most for indigenous platforms would have stopped it right away. They didn't, so let people laugh or cry or throw mud, end of the day what matters is we have a important platform to complete the triad.

You can fill another 100 pages here, but you will be told, how our platforms are the worst. Just let it be, don't boil your blood.