[DEBATE]Our Ex-Chief of Staff:"... Pakistan doesn't have a national army."

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

he wanted to show that he had done a great job. tell him that even a small unit of army consists of people from all across pakistan. NLI units are exception as they were not regular army units but a paramilitary force given status of army. thats the reason they got people from same area only. they will also change like other units after some time.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir g I strongly disagree ............... discipline has little to do with productivity compared to honesty, motivation, challenging environment that promotes out of the box thinking, opportunities to make decisions, working environment with lesser restrictions in place like dress code etc. Military style environment deteriorates a civilian’s ability to perform at his best. If discipline only could sell JF-17 the sales would have been sky high.

Sir,

I am speaking from personal experience---. I have worked with sales people and managers with military service and there was never a problem with their work ethics---. We would prefer to hire those with 4 years plus service over those with no service---because we knew that due to their training---they would be a better fit.

Again my personal experience---somone who has served his 4-6 years----is a highly motivated individual---ready to take orders---ready to lead---ready to take charge---adjust to the environment---.

The example of your steel mill is on front of everyone---. When the RETD General was running it---he made something out of this worthless dying steel mill---. When the civilians took over---the destruction is in front of our eyes and for everyone to see.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

He must be Talking about " Northern Light Infantry". and it's a fact if you would visit a specific region or province you would surely see most people of that same Region like General is talking about Northern Region. So what if the Army men is from North or south Region the important thing is he is "Pakistani" and he is well Trained and well Equipped. i would consider it as Stupid Argument "Sorry".

Agreed. I think he might be talking about NLI. This infantry specialize in mountain warfare and since people from north are mountain people, its the matter of "horses for courses" rather anything else.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi brothers and sisters of the brotherly nation Pakistan!

This is a debate, so not necessarily a news subject. Our ex-chief of the general staff literally just said (he is right now speaking live on TV, talking about all the developments around the region including the coup, Syria intervention, ISIS and counter-terrorism in general) and he said (NOT quote!):


-The matter of national army is too important. When I was the chief and head of ground forces also, I've personally worked on this to increase this matter as much as possible. Our vision was an army made by everyone from Edirne to Hakkari. When I checked the results of conscripts, I was shocked to see there is no joining from Hakkari. As you see, the education level of that city is pretty low. So I've instructed the regional commanders to open courses to increase the level of participation in education and thus increase the participation to the army from that city. This kind of phenomenon is proven to be a very important matter. Look at Syria, yet alone having a national army, they don't even have an army to begin with. Look at Iraq, there is Barzani in the north of the country.. Kurdish Peshmerga under Barzani is in the north, in the other sides of the country there are shia and sunni elements. And to get real, those elements would not even fight for other territories of their own country. We have seen it occuring with our own eyes there, Iraqi soldiers running away from enemies because they thought it was not their fight. That is not a national army. We look at Iran, they don't even have one army! It is so funny, they have two armies instead and they both operate dependently on separate entities. Can we really say this a national army? Another weird fact is that the guards there does not even serve the government nor the president. They serve the religious leader of the country.. All these armies are very dangerous armies. Armies that are not national armies are very dangerous. Then we look at Afghanistan.. There is barely any government there yet alone an army. And look at Pakistan.. I mean.. It is very saddening for us of course, after all they are our brother nation.. but the same phenomenon is also presence in Pakistan too. I've traveled everywhere, seen and inspected all these armies myself. You travel to the north of Pakistan.. And you see that the army there is made up by people living in those regions. You cannot call that a national army...


Essentially he made this kind of statements along with all other things. The debate I was curious to talk about is...


Is this real? Does Pakistan really not have a national army? I thought we organized the Pak-Army so thought the systems there would be parallel to those we have in our own army. That sounded very strange for us.

I am looking forward to learn more on this subject!


Thank!

Hi,

It is 5 pages long--- .

As stated in my post---we recruit on the same basis since independence that our fore fathers had recruited in the region---before the british.

We do not follow the british system per say in recruitment even though---that is what we claim---and I have stated that as well.

Ours is a thousand years old tradition---the sultan / the king olny recruited from areas that were loyal to him---those warrior clans that they had conquered and those who submitted to the will of the king---.

Out law clans---and clans that stood against the king---or a certain CASTE that would traditionally be against the state would not be inducted into the military of the muslim kings---.

The british when they conquered---they also did not deviate---ceratin tribes remained anti state till their death and others waited for the opportune moment to strike against the british.

The tribe that I come from---would not be recruited into the britsh army---for they stood against the empire---. And even 10 years after the birth of pakistan---could not serve in the pakistan military---because the name of the tribe had not been removed from the list---.

In pakistan---when you signed up for the military---you have to declare your CASTE---in the past---the RECRUITER had a list of castes that he could reject outright---for anti state reasons or ' other ' reasons.

The list also included tribes who were militarily weak tribes---also included were ' coward ' tribes '---those who could not fight----.

You need to understand and learn about the CASTE system in the sub continent----. Almost all the low caste hindus that had converted to islam were of the NON fighting tribes---.

There is a lot more to what meets the eye when discussing the national back ground of pakistan's military.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Na dear the explanation is the same as given earlier. He is mixing some other groups with army. Plus it may also be a case that he saw those FC and NLI troops more often and thus this assumption. Again, that is like comparing these groups with the main army units and there composition.

Thats what im saying....it depends on what level of exposure he was given about Pakistan Army, which is directly related to what part of our army we have exposed infront of him to notice.

To an outsider perhaps FC and Rangers are our mainstream army, unless he has proper study to identify.

This comment has more to do with their domestic consumption, if u look into his full argument with reference and context, he was giving this example to justify his argument, which obviously was wrong example.

This is how i think abt this saga.

 

[Arsalan]

Thats what im saying....it depends on what level of exposure he was about Pakistan Army, which is directly related to what part of our army we have exposed infront of him to notice.

To an outsider perhaps FC and Rangers are our mainstream army, unless he has proper study to identify.

This comment has more to do with their domestic consumption, if u look into his full argument with reference and context, he was giving this example to justify his argument, which obviously was wrong example.

This is how i think abt this saga.

Well ok if that is what you were saying initially

I agree, it is mainly because he have mixed up some arms of law enforcement and judged the composition of whole military based on that. A confusion and a mistake, that is all.