[DEBATE]Our Ex-Chief of Staff:"... Pakistan doesn't have a national army."

[SouI]

Hi brothers and sisters of the brotherly nation Pakistan!

This is a debate, so not necessarily a news subject. Our ex-chief of the general staff literally just said (he is right now speaking live on TV, talking about all the developments around the region including the coup, Syria intervention, ISIS and counter-terrorism in general) and he said (NOT quote!):


-The matter of national army is too important. When I was the chief and head of ground forces also, I've personally worked on this to increase this matter as much as possible. Our vision was an army made by everyone from Edirne to Hakkari. When I checked the results of conscripts, I was shocked to see there is no joining from Hakkari. As you see, the education level of that city is pretty low. So I've instructed the regional commanders to open courses to increase the level of participation in education and thus increase the participation to the army from that city. This kind of phenomenon is proven to be a very important matter. Look at Syria, yet alone having a national army, they don't even have an army to begin with. Look at Iraq, there is Barzani in the north of the country.. Kurdish Peshmerga under Barzani is in the north, in the other sides of the country there are shia and sunni elements. And to get real, those elements would not even fight for other territories of their own country. We have seen it occuring with our own eyes there, Iraqi soldiers running away from enemies because they thought it was not their fight. That is not a national army. We look at Iran, they don't even have one army! It is so funny, they have two armies instead and they both operate dependently on separate entities. Can we really say this a national army? Another weird fact is that the guards there does not even serve the government nor the president. They serve the religious leader of the country.. All these armies are very dangerous armies. Armies that are not national armies are very dangerous. Then we look at Afghanistan.. There is barely any government there yet alone an army. And look at Pakistan.. I mean.. It is very saddening for us of course, after all they are our brother nation.. but the same phenomenon is also presence in Pakistan too. I've traveled everywhere, seen and inspected all these armies myself. You travel to the north of Pakistan.. And you see that the army there is made up by people living in those regions. You cannot call that a national army...


Essentially he made this kind of statements along with all other things. The debate I was curious to talk about is...


Is this real? Does Pakistan really not have a national army? I thought we organized the Pak-Army so thought the systems there would be parallel to those we have in our own army. That sounded very strange for us.

I am looking forward to learn more on this subject!


Thank!

 

[salarsikander]

Could you please elaborate a bit more on NATIONAL ARMY,. How do you define a national Army ?

The Armed forces of Pakistan does not discriminate anyone on the basis of religion or particular region. This in turn creates a sound foundation for the discipline. The reason why everyone is taken from a particular region to form part of that corp i because they are As much as pakistani as anyone out there. No special preference is given to a one particular region. Its all dependant upon the current requirement of recruitment and selection/

 

[AUz]

Hi brothers and sisters of the brotherly nation Pakistan!

This is a debate, so not necessarily a news subject. Our ex-chief of the general staff literally just said (he is right now speaking live on TV, talking about all the developments around the region including the coup, Syria intervention, ISIS and counter-terrorism in general) and he said (NOT quote!):


-The matter of national army is too important. When I was the chief and head of ground forces also, I've personally worked on this to increase this matter as much as possible. Our vision was an army made by everyone from Edirne to Hakkari. When I checked the results of conscripts, I was shocked to see there is no joining from Hakkari. As you see, the education level of that city is pretty low. So I've instructed the regional commanders to open courses to increase the level of participation in education and thus increase the participation to the army from that city. This kind of phenomenon is proven to be a very important matter. Look at Syria, yet alone having a national army, they don't even have an army to begin with. Look at Iraq, there is Barzani in the north of the country.. Kurdish Peshmerga under Barzani is in the north, in the other sides of the country there are shia and sunni elements. And to get real, those elements would not even fight for other territories of their own country. We have seen it occuring with our own eyes there, Iraqi soldiers running away from enemies because they thought it was not their fight. That is not a national army. We look at Iran, they don't even have one army! It is so funny, they have two armies instead and they both operate dependently on separate entities. Can we really say this a national army? Another weird fact is that the guards there does not even serve the government nor the president. They serve the religious leader of the country.. All these armies are very dangerous armies. Armies that are not national armies are very dangerous. Then we look at Afghanistan.. There is barely any government there yet alone an army. And look at Pakistan.. I mean.. It is very saddening for us of course, after all they are our brother nation.. but the same phenomenon is also presence in Pakistan too. I've traveled everywhere, seen and inspected all these armies myself. You travel to the north of Pakistan.. And you see that the army there is made up by people living in those regions. You cannot call that a national army...


Essentially he made this kind of statements along with all other things. The debate I was curious to talk about is...


Is this real? Does Pakistan really not have a national army? I thought we organized the Pak-Army so thought the systems there would be parallel to those we have in our own army. That sounded very strange for us.

I am looking forward to learn more on this subject!


Thank!

Pakistan's army is a national army through and through. There was internal debate once about the dominance of Punjab province in the Army as most of our soldiers, officers, and generals come from this province--however, in 2009, Pakistan Army announced a policy of wider integration--and since then, all regions of Pakistan are contributing in the construction of Pakistan Army more proportionally.

There were terrorist militias in our tribal region, but those regions have been completely taken over by our military assault and these terrorist organizations have been completely destroyed and are now seeing shelter in Afghanistan.

Regarding Northern region having army made up of locals---I don't know what he meant by it. May be some units in Azad Kashmir (which isn't our "province" but under our control---but has its own parliament etc) were local units made up of locals which gave the general this impression.

But rest assured, Pakistan Army is a national Army and is a unified force covering every inch of Pakistan.

 

[Max]

Does Pakistan really not have a national army?

are you talking about ethnic/provincial make up of Army? We have Quota system for Army, every province gets its share in jobs..

thought we organized the Pak-Army so thought the systems there would be parallel to those we have in our own army.

Brits organized our Army not Turkish Army.. it was British Indian Army who was behind fall of ottomans, when partition happen, Brits handed over 1/3 of the British Indian army to Pakistan with all structure made by them.. even till today structure of both (Pakistan and Indian) armies is same. senior members can correct me if i am wrong..

 

[war&peace]

He should rather focus on his own army and rogue elements who tried to stage a coupe instead of the most professional army in the world which is praised even by its enemies and critics for its discipline and professionalism.

 

[SouI]

Could please elaborat a bit more on NATIONAL ARMY,. How do you define a national Army ?

He defined that term as an army made up by every part of the nation that also operates as a whole, not divided according to ethnicity or sectarian backgrounds in those operations.

 

[Max]

Baluchistan to get representation in Pak Army as per population share: COAS

https://defence.pk/threads/balochis...pak-army-as-per-population-share-coas.104228/

2011 news but thats how Pak Army work..

 

[Rocky rock]

He must be Talking about " Northern Light Infantry". and it's a fact if you would visit a specific region or province you would surely see most people of that same Region like General is talking about Northern Region. So what if the Army men is from North or south Region the important thing is he is "Pakistani" and he is well Trained and well Equipped. i would consider it as Stupid Argument "Sorry".

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Hi brothers and sisters of the brotherly nation Pakistan!

This is a debate, so not necessarily a news subject. Our ex-chief of the general staff literally just said (he is right now speaking live on TV, talking about all the developments around the region including the coup, Syria intervention, ISIS and counter-terrorism in general) and he said (NOT quote!):


-The matter of national army is too important. When I was the chief and head of ground forces also, I've personally worked on this to increase this matter as much as possible. Our vision was an army made by everyone from Edirne to Hakkari. When I checked the results of conscripts, I was shocked to see there is no joining from Hakkari. As you see, the education level of that city is pretty low. So I've instructed the regional commanders to open courses to increase the level of participation in education and thus increase the participation to the army from that city. This kind of phenomenon is proven to be a very important matter. Look at Syria, yet alone having a national army, they don't even have an army to begin with. Look at Iraq, there is Barzani in the north of the country.. Kurdish Peshmerga under Barzani is in the north, in the other sides of the country there are shia and sunni elements. And to get real, those elements would not even fight for other territories of their own country. We have seen it occuring with our own eyes there, Iraqi soldiers running away from enemies because they thought it was not their fight. That is not a national army. We look at Iran, they don't even have one army! It is so funny, they have two armies instead and they both operate dependently on separate entities. Can we really say this a national army? Another weird fact is that the guards there does not even serve the government nor the president. They serve the religious leader of the country.. All these armies are very dangerous armies. Armies that are not national armies are very dangerous. Then we look at Afghanistan.. There is barely any government there yet alone an army. And look at Pakistan.. I mean.. It is very saddening for us of course, after all they are our brother nation.. but the same phenomenon is also presence in Pakistan too. I've traveled everywhere, seen and inspected all these armies myself. You travel to the north of Pakistan.. And you see that the army there is made up by people living in those regions. You cannot call that a national army...


Essentially he made this kind of statements along with all other things. The debate I was curious to talk about is...


Is this real? Does Pakistan really not have a national army? I thought we organized the Pak-Army so thought the systems there would be parallel to those we have in our own army. That sounded very strange for us.

I am looking forward to learn more on this subject!


Thank!

Well, he specifically stated "The North". Military forces in the North are primarily made up of paramilitary units recruited from the locals.

 

[!eon]

What he said is correct. Situation is not exemplary in Pakistan.

Hi brothers and sisters of the brotherly nation Pakistan!

This is a debate, so not necessarily a news subject. Our ex-chief of the general staff literally just said (he is right now speaking live on TV, talking about all the developments around the region including the coup, Syria intervention, ISIS and counter-terrorism in general) and he said (NOT quote!):


-The matter of national army is too important. When I was the chief and head of ground forces also, I've personally worked on this to increase this matter as much as possible. Our vision was an army made by everyone from Edirne to Hakkari. When I checked the results of conscripts, I was shocked to see there is no joining from Hakkari. As you see, the education level of that city is pretty low. So I've instructed the regional commanders to open courses to increase the level of participation in education and thus increase the participation to the army from that city. This kind of phenomenon is proven to be a very important matter. Look at Syria, yet alone having a national army, they don't even have an army to begin with. Look at Iraq, there is Barzani in the north of the country.. Kurdish Peshmerga under Barzani is in the north, in the other sides of the country there are shia and sunni elements. And to get real, those elements would not even fight for other territories of their own country. We have seen it occuring with our own eyes there, Iraqi soldiers running away from enemies because they thought it was not their fight. That is not a national army. We look at Iran, they don't even have one army! It is so funny, they have two armies instead and they both operate dependently on separate entities. Can we really say this a national army? Another weird fact is that the guards there does not even serve the government nor the president. They serve the religious leader of the country.. All these armies are very dangerous armies. Armies that are not national armies are very dangerous. Then we look at Afghanistan.. There is barely any government there yet alone an army. And look at Pakistan.. I mean.. It is very saddening for us of course, after all they are our brother nation.. but the same phenomenon is also presence in Pakistan too. I've traveled everywhere, seen and inspected all these armies myself. You travel to the north of Pakistan.. And you see that the army there is made up by people living in those regions. You cannot call that a national army...


Essentially he made this kind of statements along with all other things. The debate I was curious to talk about is...


Is this real? Does Pakistan really not have a national army? I thought we organized the Pak-Army so thought the systems there would be parallel to those we have in our own army. That sounded very strange for us.

I am looking forward to learn more on this subject!


Thank!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

@Irfan Baloch @Xeric @fatman @Horus @menticore @Dazzler these r the guys who can tell u the real composition and structural thinking of our Armed Forces, or if possible can point u towards relevant threads.

However do know one thing that as of now and for past 15 years we had been fighting wars in our north western areas where terrain is very rugged and mountainous. Hence people from north which is itself mountainous r in army formations deployed in those areas but if u go to our armored corps, or forces deployed in east and south east, u will find local people. Especially paramilitary forces like Rangers etc.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Turkish army consists of compulsory military training for all able bodied males - so the national army. But, I think the Pak army is professional and voluntary, and its units are based on provincial level as designed during the British rule. So, the difference should be quite obvious. The current government is working on a more professional army based on merit and thorough recruitment process. Moreover, they're planning to shorten the military service period for common folks..

 

[Max]

He defined that term as an army made up by every part of the nation that also operates as a whole, not divided according to ethnicity or sectarian backgrounds in those operations.

They can be deployed anywhere and all units are mixture of all different ethnic groups, maybe general mix up some paramilitary with army..

Paramilitaries are mostly local from same province or state.

@SouI one more thing even those paramilitaries from same province can be from different ethnic group as our every province have Two major ethnic groups,

Sindh have Sindhis and Muhajirs with millions of Punjabi and Pashtun.. (local Punjabi and Pashtun are also part of Sindh Rangers)

KPK have Pashtun, Hindko etc

Balochistan have Baloch, Pashtun and Hazara..

 

[X-2.]

I think this video is good answer to this thread
This came in my mind afterreadinf this,
Listening this since I was child
Such posts should not come from Turkey

 

[ThE-ShOwStOpPeR]

@waz @Oscar
Sir/s we have excellent brotherly relation with our Turk brothers even on this forum So kindly regulate / moderate those subjects which could be became cause of rifts between the two nations even on this forum.

I request you to Kindly delete or block this thread.