Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[vnomad]

weapon of choice is imp ... we do make lots and made improvements in missile technologies.

?? I don't believe as per terms of the contract, modification of guided missiles is ever permitted(Brahmos being the exception).

so tailoring needs are met ... besides gripen has offered source code of aesa with complete tot.

Well details of the ToT proposal are only available to the IAF so far. Whether the ToT for the MMIC module, complete array or processor will be released is unknown at this point. Whether it will yield gains in terms of economical viability is another unknown at this point. Also, its competitors are also offering ToTs(extents of which are again unknown) for their AESA radars.

supercruise is req of iaf ... only mig 35 apart from gripen ng has it.

I don't believe that is a requirement. And of the competitors the EF as well as the Gripen can supercruise. The MiG-35 AFAIK cannot.

it can land on 800 mtr highway also ... remember our enemies have good record to go after airbase and their runways during war ...

The Swedes have a different operating philosophy than the IAF's. They expected to be confronted with the massive Soviet airforce which made operating from roads and makeshift airbases(rather than proper ones) a necessity. In the IAF's case, it doesn't operating from roads isn't an operational objective. Other infrastructure and training isn't in place to support that, even if an aircraft that could do so entered service.

rather ... we cud go for fa18 for the 40 that indian navy req

besides reports have surfaced that india will be going for another 100 besides the 126 . we can go for rafale or ef then .

126 - 200 .. gripens with weapon of choice ..
40 ... sh18 for indian navy
100... .ef or rafale

Every aircraft in the world(including the IAF) tries to reduce the number of aircraft types it operates in order to make logistics and maintenance more effective and cheap while improving interoperability
among the air force's various squadrons. Going for three aircraft types instead of one isn't likely to happen.

remember iaf will not want su 30 mki position has frontline fighter to be compromised . ef , rafale, sh18 ... will surely do it .

I don't believe that's something the IAF is actively attempting to do. In any case, AFAIK for now only 126 MRCAs(may later be increased to 200) are to be ordered and with 230-280 MKIs in service, the MKI will remain the IAF's backbone.

dependancies of missiles and components shud not hinder during sanctions or non supportance during an event of war. surely nato.. us .. european union will interfere in such cases . we dont want to depend ... rather be independent

While it is preferable to be independent, sanctions aren't a likelihood in future, not least because India has been extremely capable in spurring international opinion in its favour today and in the recent past. Unless our economy starts shrinking or we make a break with democracy, sanctions aren't likely to happen.

 

[sudhir007]

Typhoon helmet cleared for operational use

Eurofighter has cleared the Helmet-Mounted Symbology System (HMSS) for its Typhoon combat aircraft and expects it to be in operational use with frontline pilots by the end of the third quarter of 2010, a company spokesperson said on 9 December.

Speaking at Eurofighter's Munich facility, Laurie Hilditch, head of Future Capabilities Capture, Joint Flight Operations, said that the HMSS is currently with the company's NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency (NETMA) customer and is going through its final paperwork clearances.

As soon as the production standard HMSS receives its final certification and clearance, the UK Royal Air Force's (RAF's) 17 (Reserve) Squadron (17 Sqn), which is responsible for the UK Typhoon's operational testing and evaluation work at RAF Coningsby, will begin testing the system around the beginning of the second quarter of 2010.

Hilditch said that, once this has been done, Eurofighter will look to establish "a centre of excellence" for the helmet, probably centred around 17 Sqn, at which all the core customers can train their pilots in its use before rolling it out among the squadrons.

"There's not much point in taking something as sophisticated as the helmet, taking it to a squadron and giving it to the boys saying: 'Play with that'. They will need to be taught how to use it," he said.

The HMSS was due to be operational at the same time as the conclusion of the Typhoon main development contract in 2008, but its development has proved to be more complicated than was originally anticipated.

Typhoon helmet cleared for operational use

 

[SSGPA1]

arey bhai koi faisla huwa kiya??

Who are the lucky parties?

Is it a MiG and F-18 combo?

India is between a rock and a hard place now ... end result will be a combination of platforms so taht everyone is happy except the end users

 

[vnomad]

arey bhai koi faisla huwa kiya??

Who are the lucky parties?

Is it a MiG and F-18 combo?

The flight trials(which took place in India) for the F-16, F-18, Rafale and MiG-35 are over. The Eurofighter's flight trials will be over by March(probably). A decision is likely to be announced late next year.

India is between a rock and a hard place now ... end result will be a combination of platforms so taht everyone is happy except the end users

There isn't much scope for fusion of systems from different countries ala MKI, in the case of the MRCA aircraft. When the decision is announced, there are going to be five very disappointed parties.

P.S. If the MiG-35 is selected there are going to be six very disappointed parties; the five others and me.

 

[Rank]

80 % Chances of ?

F18SH
Typhoon
Rafale
Mig

?

 

[Imran Khan]

i read this MRCA deal when i was in high school please yaar finish it now. no harm our indian brothers just for fun

 

[gogbot]

80 % Chances of ?

F18SH
Typhoon
Rafale
Mig

?

Only the F-18, Typhoon and Rafale are compteting to win at this point.

IAF wants a twin enigne plane
And A plane that uses the same engine as the LCA, lowering costs and increasing commonality.

The offers as they stand are.

The Super Hornet variant being offered to India, the F/A-18IN, is based on the F/A-18E/F model flown by the U.S. Navy and currently being built for the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF). Raytheon's APG-79 AESA radar is being offered on the aircraft. There will be a limited ToT on the radar, up to the level approved by the US Government. However, Raytheon has stated that the level of ToT offered will be compliant with the RFP requirements. Delivery of the first F/A-18IN Super Hornets can begin approximately 36 months after contract award.

Boeing has proposed joint manufacture of the jets with Indian partners. It also plans to offset the cost by setting up a US$100 million maintenance and training hub in Nagpur. This is the first time the Super Hornet has been offered for production in a foreign country. On 14 February 2008, Boeing and Tata Industries agreed to form a joint-venture company. The new entity, which will be formed in June 2008, will supply components for Boeing military aircraft, including the Super Hornet.

In order to satisfy its offset requirements, Boeing has signed long-term partnership agreements with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Tata Industries, and Larsen and Toubro, who will play a significant role in production and assembly of the aircraft.

Selecting this will Mean that the Tejas Mk-2 will use the GE-414 engine as used in the F-18

Eurofighter is offering the Tranche-3 Typhoon for the Indian requirement, equipped with the Captor-E (CAESAR) AESA radar. EADS has invited India to become a partner of the Eurofighter Typhoon programme if the Typhoon wins the contract, and will be given technological and development participation in future tranches of the Typhoon. Bernhard Gerwert, CEO of EADS Defense Department, elaborated that if India becomes the fifth partner of the Eurofighter programme, it will be able to manufacture assemblies for every new Eurofighter

Selcting the Euro fighter would mean using the EJ-2000 enigne for the Tejas.

The French government has cleared full technology transfer of the Rafale to India, including that of the RBE2-AA Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar (which will be integrated with the Rafale by 2010) and the transfer of software source codes, which will allow Indian scientists to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment if need be. Without the software source codes, the IAF would have to specify mission parameters to foreign manufacturers to enable configuration of their radar, seriously compromising security in the process.

Dassault has also offered to fit the Kaveri engine into the Rafale, which, if chosen, which would greatly improve commonality with the Tejas aircraft.

selecting the Rafael would mean Developing a new version or improving the Kaveri engine for use in both the Tejas and Rafael

---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------

Broadsword: Kaveri engine comes alive; will power Indian fighters

Business Standard has learned that the MoD --- apprehending that Eurojet and GE would hang back from providing India with critical engine technologies, even if Transfer of Technology (ToT) was mandated in a purchase contract --- now wants to co-develop an engine in India rather than manufacturing one under licence. The DRDO’s Gas Turbine and Research Establishment (GTRE), which has a design partnership with French engine-maker, Snecma, has been asked to design a more powerful Kaveri successor.

A Snecma-GTRE joint venture to develop the upgraded Kaveri is likely to be announced during President Nikolas Sarkozy’s visit to India in early 2010.


Given the latest Announcement.
IF it happens Rafael has pretty much won this competition.
Securing its second largest order.

Plus the Rafael can be more easily inducted given its commonality with the IAF Mirage

 

[marcos98]

Eurofighter chief urges more foreign sales
(AFP) – 18 hours ago

FRANKFURT — The new head of the Eurofighter consortium has pressed member countries to do more to sell the combat jet abroad, in an German interview published on Monday.
"We need more contracts with support from the governments and a more coordinated support strategy," Enzo Casolini told the Financial Times Deutschland newspaper.
"Look at what Sarkozy has done for France," Casolini added in reference to efforts by the French president to sell Dassault's Rafale jet during recent trips to Brazil and the Middle East.
"Angela Merkel, Gordon Brown, Silvio Berlusconi and Jose Luis Zapatero should agree to similar actions," the aerospace executive said, referring to the heads of governments in Germany, Britain, Italy and Spain.
Those countries recently signed contracts for a third round of production that is to turn out 112 aircraft worth around nine billion euros (13 billion dollars).
But that will only ensure work until 2015, which "for a defence programme, is as though it is tomorrow. We must take care of subsequent years," Casolini said.
He added that 400 companies and 100,000 workers depended directly or indirectly on the pan-European project.
Austria and Saudi Arabia have already agreed to buy the Eurofighter, whereas France has yet to sell the Rafale to another country though it has sold other Dassault jets to Brazil, Greece, India, Lybia and Switzerland.

 

[SSGPA1]

P.S. If the MiG-35 is selected there are going to be six very disappointed parties; the five others and me.

I am stating this without any bias - MiG will be the best platform for the IAF:

1. ToT will be much easier giving IAF complete control over future designs etc.

2. Flow of spares will be much easier and with ToT, jobs can be created within India.

3. IAF is used to the MiGs and can work on further enhancements with the money saved by not using other tech.

4. US and EU companies will be like banyaas and drink all juice out of the Indian economy.

 

[rajeev]

I am stating this without any bias - MiG will be the best platform for the IAF:

1. ToT will be much easier giving IAF complete control over future designs etc.

2. Flow of spares will be much easier and with ToT, jobs can be created within India.

3. IAF is used to the MiGs and can work on further enhancements with the money saved by not using other tech.

4. US and EU companies will be like banyaas and drink all juice out of the Indian economy.

No, dude. There is very little for India to gain by buying Mig-35. India has already signed PAKFA with Russia. I dont think even Russia thinks that India will buy its plane.

If India buys Rafael, India gets complete ToT including the software along with chances to get into fifth generation plane if France is going to build one.

If India buys Eurofighter, they offer almost a big chunk of ToT along with partnership to get in to build fifth generation plane.

If India buys F18SH, they offer strategic benefits and some window for American companies to invest in India. But with Obama, everything is up in air, as you know.

The other two planes, I dont think are even contendors because of lack of ToT and/or strategic benefits and/or long-term advantages.

Personally, my first preference is that India gets Eurofighter followed by Rafale.

 

[vnomad]

I am stating this without any bias - MiG will be the best platform for the IAF:

1. ToT will be much easier giving IAF complete control over future designs etc.

2. Flow of spares will be much easier and with ToT, jobs can be created within India.

3. IAF is used to the MiGs and can work on further enhancements with the money saved by not using other tech.

4. US and EU companies will be like banyaas and drink all juice out of the Indian economy.

All true, but couple of factors here.

1. While the Russians have been good allies for decades, its unwise to be completely dependent on one external supplier.

2. The Russians have been fingering the MoD on the Gorshkov issue for far too long. Even the Brahmos project faced a lot of issues on ToT from Russia.

3. Maintenance-wise western aircraft are generally a safer bet than Russian aircraft. Also, while Russia has lately been a pretty decent source of supplies, the west has a solid record on after-sales support(baring sanctions of course).

4. Finally performance; the MiG-35 is simply doesn't match up to its competitors(with the exception of the Gripen). The IAF would prefer to scrap the order and simply go for more Su-30MKIs which are roughly at par with the MiG-35(larger RCS but higher payload/range as well).

 

[UchihaCG]

Mig-35 w/ Thrust vectoring would be awesome........ + We love Russia =0

 

[Iggy]

Can we upgrade our MIG-29s to MIG 35 standard??

 

[Hulk]

Can we upgrade our MIG-29s to MIG 35 standard??

There is an upgrade currently going on, not sure if we do another upgrade or not. I do not have details of current upgrade.

 

[yashraj]

Just Go For Euro fighter(200) Get TOT Become patner and also get Latest Anti air craft missiles and Get Its Trust Va. Engine and Convet Our Tejas in to 4++ Generation Plane...............

It's Vary Simple JUST DO IT YAAR................. WHY ARE WE WASTING SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH TIME.....