Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[ejaz007]

I believe it shall be good in the long run for PAF if IAF selects a US plane. US is not a reliable partner and is known to ditch at the most inconvenient of times.

Also there shall be inventory and training related issues. Technology is also different from Russian and Indians would need a lot of time to absorb it.

 

[Rank]

Not good for Pakistan, If IAF gets F-16.

IAF not intrested in F16s by the way because atleast required 10-15 Years for xpertizz on any aircraft and Pakistani Pilots Rolling over F16s.

About F18.. let see

Point is very clear right now America Needs India (for achieve thr Goals actually thats why H clinton visited India) same when American needs pakistan (History call) 1980 State of art weapon supply F16 @ 1980s Why ?? becaause of thr own goals. But if India go for Rafele or Euro thats good decision (in India point of view) because Russian 30 series already thy have Next Most Advance fighter in thr fleet and good relation with Europeans (especially better thn Americans).

Let see.

US Objective (counter China n Pakistan through India)

If India kick n *** Americans thn American loose its regional control over Asia.. if Pakistan also do the same anyway

 

[Born In The USA]

I'm Not sure if this vid belongs here but it is one of my favorite eurofighter typhoon videos

Bugatti Veyron vs EuroFighter Typhoon- Top Gear

 

[sancho]

So by your logic, How is Rafel better than Su 30 MKI again?
And by the way ..I too am rooting for MIG 35 (MKI version ofcourse)

Way lower RCS (below 1 vs. 10 - 13) and even the upg MKI won't counter that advantage. Surviveability, low RCS combined with latest EWS and defense systems makes it clearly favourable in any Sead, or strike mission. A2G weapons, the MKI has a good payload and a variety of weapons, but most of them are unguided, Rafale instead can use AASM, or Paveway PGMs and a variety of european and US weapons. Which was the great advantage of Mirage 2000 in Kargil for example, where our Russian fighters wasn't able of guided strikes. Also if we can use all Russian weapons already with MKI, where is the advantage of Mig 35 useing the same, but with less payload and less variety?
The combination of MKI (exellent in a2a) and Rafale (exellent in a2g) would give clearly more advantages to IAF than, MKI and Mig 35.
And don't forget all the delays we faced with Gorshkov, A50 Phalcons, or Mig 29 upg now and Mig already admit that Mig 35 will be delayed, so do we really want to go on like that?

 

[sancho]

Lockheed Launches Attack On Gripen's MMRCA Campaign

The gloves are off, not that they were ever on. Just a few days after Gripen held a well-reported press conference in Delhi last week, Lockheed-Martin has hit out at the Swedish plane-maker's campaign for India's $10.2-billion medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition. At a reception for Lockheed-Martin's new India head Roger Rose, there was lots of talk on Gripen country head Eddy de la Motte's repeated affirmation that there would be "total transfer of technology" if the Gripen was selected. Lockheed-Martin Vice President (Business Development, India) Orville Prins told journalists that the Gripen campaign's assertion that there would be 100 per cent ToT was "dishonest and inaccurate".

Prins pointed out that with an admitted 35 per cent of the Gripen being made up by American components and systems, there was no way that the Swedes could trumpet full transfer of technology, simply because a full transfer of technology would mean formal release of the said technology by the US government, which may or may not be forthcoming. "Without formal sanction for technology release, it simply not honest to say you can transfer all technology. It is plainly false," Prins said.

Like I said, the gloves are off, and even the world's biggest aerospace firm feels the heat sometime or other. The F-16IN campaign considers itself seriously threatened by the Gripen IN's concerted effort to fritter out American content. It's interesting how Lockheed-Martin would also rely on a political leash on the Swedes, rather than concentrate its effort on attacking its competitors on technology. But then again, even the Swedes know this isn't a meat and potatoes campaign.

 

[ISRO2]

Lockheed Launches Attack On Gripen's MMRCA Campaign

The gloves are off, not that they were ever on. Just a few days after Gripen held a well-reported press conference in Delhi last week, Lockheed-Martin has hit out at the Swedish plane-maker's campaign for India's $10.2-billion medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition. At a reception for Lockheed-Martin's new India head Roger Rose, there was lots of talk on Gripen country head Eddy de la Motte's repeated affirmation that there would be "total transfer of technology" if the Gripen was selected. Lockheed-Martin Vice President (Business Development, India) Orville Prins told journalists that the Gripen campaign's assertion that there would be 100 per cent ToT was "dishonest and inaccurate".

Prins pointed out that with an admitted 35 per cent of the Gripen being made up by American components and systems, there was no way that the Swedes could trumpet full transfer of technology, simply because a full transfer of technology would mean formal release of the said technology by the US government, which may or may not be forthcoming. "Without formal sanction for technology release, it simply not honest to say you can transfer all technology. It is plainly false," Prins said.

Like I said, the gloves are off, and even the world's biggest aerospace firm feels the heat sometime or other. The F-16IN campaign considers itself seriously threatened by the Gripen IN's concerted effort to fritter out American content. It's interesting how Lockheed-Martin would also rely on a political leash on the Swedes, rather than concentrate its effort on attacking its competitors on technology. But then again, even the Swedes know this isn't a meat and potatoes campaign.

Sir that makes gripen out of compitetion and with F-16IN and F-18 indirectly.

 

[sancho]

Sir that makes gripen out of compitetion and with F-16IN and F-18 indirectly.

Lets say less likely, but this was clear from the beginning that Gripens high dependance and less political benefits will be the main disadvantages. It was always the most cost-effective choice, but I doubt that will really be a reason for IAF, or MoD.

 

[gogbot]

Lets say less likely, but this was clear from the beginning that Gripens high dependance and less political benefits will be the main disadvantages. It was always the most cost-effective choice, but I doubt that will really be a reason for IAF, or MoD.

IAF is not concerned about cost.
Only what best meets their requirements.
their choice is also made public

GOI is responsible for budgeting and political decisions. they are the deciders. and will base it around IAF's recommendations.

Mind you this decision will also depend a lot on The LCA project and what engine that is using.

Will be first for the euro fighter typhoon
and then F/A-18 SH or F-16 IN (only with full tot)
And finally Rafael

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think India will go for F-18SH. Just a guess

 

[Tejas-MkII]

I think India will go for Typhoon or Rafale. Just a guess

 

[Haanzo]

MAN ARE YOU CRAZY?????

Way lower RCS (below 1 vs. 10 - 13) and even the upg MKI won't counter that advantage.

I agree to the rcs point but your figures are not accurate do you know that RAM coatings are used on the MKI and the rcs is close to 2.7-3 sq m ----by your words you dont believe russians use ram coatings---wake up and smell the coffee


Surviveability, low RCS combined with latest EWS and defense systems makes it clearly favourable in any Sead, or strike mission. A2G weapons, the MKI has a good payload and a variety of weapons, but most of them are unguided, Rafale instead can use AASM, or Paveway PGMs and a variety of european and US weapons.

stop watching discovery ---- it sounds harsh but it is
do you have any idea of the number of guided munitions in the indian arsenal of russian origin -----guided munitions does not mean paveway .do you know of an indian LGB in production called sudarshan ???? in the 1000 pound class--i bet you dont

and lastly iaf has a 4.5 generation fighter and how could you believe they wont have bought guided munitions,are they so dumb

Which was the great advantage of Mirage 2000 in Kargil for example, where our Russian fighters wasn't able of guided strikes.

i agree to this point but india DID NOT HAVE GUIDED MUNITIONS ,when the war started we scrambled for paveway lgb KITS they were bought from U.S. AND no more than a dozen were used -------- this is the fact that made iaf to go for the MKI

Also if we can use all Russian weapons already with MKI, where is the advantage of Mig 35 useing the same, but with less payload and less variety?
The combination of MKI (exellent in a2a) MKI is a MULTIROLE FIGHTER ,WHICH IS EXCELLENT IN A2A AND ITS HUGE PAYLOAD MAKES IT AWESOME IN A2G
and Rafale (exellent in a2g) would give clearly more advantages to IAF than, MKI and Mig 35.
mig-35 or rafale ---the choice is left for the iaf but i would personally like the rafale but mig-35 would be the fastest and the cheapest chioce -----HOW??...lets say they have used mig-29 for 20 years and they know the platform very well so tactics and ease of integration will be the highest ,the existing weapons CAN BE USED and not to forget 9 new missiles and guided munitions being offered ---the can also be used on the mki
they are KH-29T/TE TV-GUIDED A2G
KH-38MLE,MKE,MAE,MTE A2G
KH-59MK2 A2G
KAB-500Kr TV-GUIDED a2g
KAB 500S-E satnav guided(GPS) a2g
kab-500LG-F-E LASER GUIDED a2g
3M-14AE active radar guided cruise missile
KH-31 SERIES anti ship ,a2g
KH-35 SERIES anti ship

And don't forget all the delays we faced with Gorshkov, A50 Phalcons, or Mig 29 upg now and Mig already admit that Mig 35 will be delayed, so do we really want to go on like that?
AS I SAID EARLIER IAF AND THE GOVT IS TO DECIDE EITHER WAY ITS A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR THE IAF IN CASE OF THE RAFALE OR THE EF-2000 OR THE MIG-35

on thing that really ticked me off is your ignorance towards russian munitions and the capabilites of the MKI---IT HAS A RAM COATING...,IT IS A MULTI ROLE FIGHTERit has a wide weapons choice similar to paveway series

 

[Udhaya]

In my opinion its not going to be one fighter but combination of fighters.

Russian MIG 35 will be purchased separately but not through this deal.

 

[sudhir007]

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

General Electric (GE), which is in contention as the engine supplier for the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract of the IAF with three of its engines, is keen on sourcing components from Indian industry.
GE said, it will manufacture, assemble and test the engine, if any of its partner wins the contract, at the Hindusthan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The global engine manufacturing behemoth said it will get many of its engine components manufactured by local firms. GE’s F110-GE-132 turbofan engine powers the F-16 IN, which Lockheed Martin is seeking to sell to India.
The F-16 IN is one of the contenders for the MMRCA contract for the supply of 126 aircraft. The F110-GE-132 turbofan engine developed by the GE, and which will power the F-16 IN, was originally developed for the United Arab Emirates F-16E/F. The engine has a thrust of 32,000 pounds, which is considered as little on the higher side for a small aircraft like the F-16. This extra power makes it possible for the F-16 IN to carry more armaments.
More than 3,000 F110 engines have been ordered since the US Air Force first selected the engine in 1984. Till, now over 3,000 of these engines have been mounted on various airframes including the F14, F15 and F-16, since 1984.
“the firm will tailor the engine for Indian configurations,” said Philip G Woniger, program manager, F110-GE-132, GE Aviation. Customisations for the engines that will power the F-16 IN will include durability core.
The engine produces 170 reports that guide the engine maintainers

 

[sudhir007]

In my opinion its not going to be one fighter but combination of fighters.

Russian MIG 35 will be purchased separately but not through this deal.

Then why we purchase extra 50 MKI. coze Russian happy with this(they know Mig-35 can not win and India dnt want to Russian unhappy coze we have best of Russian plane in our inventory why we choose that plane which has no future) deal and now we can go for western country for better f/a.

 

[Born In The USA]

Then why we purchase extra 50 MKI. coze Russian happy with this(they know Mig-35 can not win and India dnt want to Russian unhappy coze we have best of Russian plane in our inventory why we choose that plane which has no future) deal and now we can go for western country for better f/a.

How about purchasing mig 35s to slowly phase out the existing fleet of mig29s in service with the IAF?