Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[doctor_who]

What are the exact specification of tejas

go to tejas thread , this is about mrca.

 

[jack220]

go to tejas thread , this is about mrca.

yah, i posted on wrong section,

thx

 

[sancho]

Just in short, because I don't have the time now...

@ sancho

I am not saying development cost has escalated. I said the development cost ... too much (€39.6 billion) than expected,

Isn't that the same?

Dude, these are the deals in which they are competing, they have not won them

That's what I said, they have good chances with 8 countries so far, Gripen only with Brazil, if at, EF? That makes the chances for future orders for Gripen and EF not very bright. While Rafale even with a single of these 8 chances, would top the Gripen orders easily. That's why I don't see them so desperate at the moment especially with French orders going on without cuts.

They have to win some projects or they might have to shut down assembly line in a couple of years.

That's not correct, because the French order is way beyond 200 fighters and the production line runs in slow mode. That means, it will be open just for France for a long time and if export orders come in, they can increase it easily (remember the offer to give us 40 Rafales for fast induction).
Saab on the other hand, has already devilvered most of their orders, so if they don't get new once, they have to close the production line.

Also the numbers are a bit wrong, India is clear with 126 fighters and even Brazil is going with only 36 fighters. There are no indications that both the deals might increase in numbers.

For India, 126 + 74 optional + 40 for INs competition
For Brazil, please check news reports from the competition, the AF has a requirement to replace up to 100 fighters and the navy already stated they would like to order 12 Rafales as well.
With the production line for South America on offer, this procurment could end up in a long term deal with way higher numbers. That's why the vedors are fighting so hard for the deal.

Eurofighter
On the other hand Eurofighter has 707 aircrafts ordered

That's not correct, only 559 are on order so far, 707 was the planed number and includes T3B orders.
Rafale on order 190 AFAIK, planed are around 290 (from a single customer!)

 

[GORKHALI]

HOT RAFALE OVER ICY ALPS

 

[sahil1]

very good looking plane among the best of the lot both in potency as well as looks.....
hope iaf gets its hands on it without further delays............but again we are not the ones who would be deciding

 

[SpArK]

HOT RAFALE OVER ICY ALPS

This hottie is now in Arabian sea too.. exercising with .. huhhhh the Sea Harriers.

 

[syntax_error]

They should seriously do something about the refueling probe ....
it gotta be hell for the RCS

 

[sahil1]

yeah but first they should ink a deal.........its taking heck of a long time .....wonder why such an important deal has been in pipeline for around a decae and still no result

 

[GORKHALI]

MILITARY AVIATION AND SPACE TECHNOLOGY NEWS: SU 35 WEAPON LOADOUT OPTION

Su 35 impressive weapon loadout option


MULTIROLE TYPHOON LOADOUT

MILITARY AVIATION AND SPACE TECHNOLOGY NEWS: EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON WEAPON LOADOUT OPTION CHART

 

[GORKHALI]

 

[angeldemon_007]

Isn't that the same?

Yeah its the same but its the reason for its high cost...

That's what I said, they have good chances with 8 countries so far,

Thats how it lost also in many deals. Also there are reports of US pressure on Brazil and Middle east.

Gripen only with Brazil

You forgot India. Also it is in the race in Swiss deal also.

Also the Gripen project was only around 2 billion$, they don't have to worry about recovering the development cost back. They have done it.

While Rafale even with a single of these 8 chances, would top the Gripen orders easily. That's why I don't see them so desperate at the moment especially with French orders going on without cuts.

Yeah french ordered 180 fighters but thats not enough but you also have to consider US influence as US is participating in every deal. French lost the fight against typhoon in Oman and UAE is going for f18 because of high cost of rafale. They also lost in Moroco when Moroccon decided to go for F16.

By the way you are right about the their production unit. They must be busy in fulfulling there own domestic need right now but there are reports about France should win some deals so as to recover money.

Don't worry about gripen. Its a cheap but a advanced fighter and it has much better future than rafale. Countries like Pakistan, they can't afford rafale but they can surely go for gripen.

That's not correct, because the French order is way beyond 200 fighters and the production line runs in slow mode. That means, it will be open just for France for a long time and if export orders come in, they can increase it easily (remember the offer to give us 40 Rafales for fast induction).
Saab on the other hand, has already devilvered most of their orders, so if they don't get new once, they have to close the production line.

Yeah you are right about both Rafale and Gripen. I think thats why gripen is making desperate attempt to lure indians.
But i think French should increase the production if they want to reduce the cost of their fighter. The best thing for them is they should start producing it in India

For India, 126 + 74 optional + 40 for INs competition

I don't know where you got this info. But i don't think it is credible because increasing the number of fighters in the deal is declined many times by respective authorities.
But India should atleast keep its option open. What i meant is the order should be like 126 fighters with the option to increase the number to 200. Or if they are sure about their demands and navy's demands then they should include the whole order in the same MMRCA deal so that the prices could be negotiated. If our govt. decides to purchase extra fighters after 3-4 years then we would have to pay 10-15 million $ extra for each fighter. But our administration don't have the ability to visualize the future.

For Brazil, please check news reports from the competition, the AF has a requirement to replace up to 100 fighters and the navy already stated they would like to order 12 Rafales as well.

Yeah they want to replace 100 but their order is firm only 36 for now. Actually they don't need much as there is nobody against them.

With the production line for South America on offer, this procurment could end up in a long term deal with way higher numbers. That's why the vedors are fighting so hard for the deal.

Yeah but don't forget about US over there. US is pressuring Brasil to purchase their fighters and there forces like gripen. Also Lula D'silva is stepping down now. Now the situation is changing and French might even lose. But still who are we to predict about these things.

That's not correct, only 559 are on order so far, 707 was the planed number and includes T3B orders.

My source is official eurofighter website and yours is wikipedia. So, i think the correct figure is 707.
The biggest problem with rafale was that French were alone in this project. They should have opted for a partner.

By the way have you seen the pics of Dassault Neuron, the UCAV, they are now getting good response as many companies have teamed up with them. I think India should forget about AURA and should team up with them.

@ FLYING MACHINE
I saw this pic somewhere on the net. It won a competition. Its a damn sexy pic.

 

[GORKHALI]

.

@ FLYING MACHINE
I saw this pic somewhere on the net. It won a competition. Its a damn sexy pic.

YOU MEAN RAFALE IMAGE LOL ?? ITS MY SECRET PITHARA hehehehe

 

[GORKHALI]

till then enjoy this NIGHT INCEPTION BY F/A 18 SH

 

[GORKHALI]

Boeing Delivers 4 More Super Hornets to Australia Ahead of Schedule
AMBERLEY, Queensland, Jan. 6, 2011 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] delivered four new F/A-18F Super Hornets to Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Base Amberley in December, expanding the RAAF's fleet of the advanced multirole fighters to 15. The delivery enabled the RAAF's achievement of Initial Operating Capability (IOC) with its first Super Hornet squadron, the Amberley-based No. 1.

Boeing has delivered all 15 Super Hornets to Australia ahead of schedule.

"Early delivery of our new Super Hornets at Amberley has been a vital part of our path toward IOC for our first Super Hornet squadron, which we have now achieved ahead of schedule," said RAAF Group Capt. Steve Roberton, Officer Commanding 82 Wing, which operates the Super Hornet. "As we've continued to hit our marks on time -- or early, in many instances -- with the Super Hornet program, we've enabled the RAAF to ensure Australia's regional air superiority as we transition from the F-111 and classic Hornet."

The December arrival was the third Super Hornet delivery to the base during 2010. Three aircraft in the latest delivery were prewired for potential conversion to electronic attack capability during production at Boeing facilities in St. Louis; the remaining nine aircraft in the contract will be prewired in the same way before delivery to the RAAF's No. 6 Squadron.

"The Boeing Super Hornet team has surpassed expectations by delivering 15 aircraft to the RAAF in 2010 instead of the 12 originally scheduled," said Carolyn Nichols, Australian Super Hornet program manager for Boeing. "Additionally, each aircraft has been delivered within budget. We are fully committed to ensuring the same delivery success and budget excellence throughout 2011. We congratulate the men and women of the RAAF on the outstanding achievement of reaching No. 1 Squadron's Super Hornet IOC ahead of schedule."

The Australian government announced in March 2007 that it would acquire 24 of the advanced Block II versions of the Super Hornet, all of which are equipped with the Raytheon-built APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.

The Boeing Super Hornet is a multirole aircraft, able to perform virtually every mission in the tactical spectrum, including air superiority, day/night strike with precision-guided weapons, fighter escort, close air support, suppression of enemy air defenses, maritime strike, reconnaissance, forward air control and tanker missions. Boeing has delivered more than 440 F/A-18E/Fs to the U.S. Navy. Every Super Hornet produced has been delivered on or ahead of schedule and on budget.

 

[sancho]

Thats how it lost also in many deals.

Not really, because they lost mainly against cheaper US fighters with political pressure behind it. Against European fighters, their chances are much higher, because the costs care more comparable and politically they can offer sometime even more (Swiss, Brazil).

You forgot India. Also it is in the race in Swiss deal also.

I said chances to win and in both competitions, the Gripen is not really a front runner. As I said, the highest chances are still in Brazil so far.

French lost the fight against typhoon in Oman and UAE is going for f18 because of high cost of rafale.

Both not correct, Oman had no real competition and F18 for UAE are nothing more than rumors in the media.

Don't worry about gripen. Its a cheap but a advanced fighter and it has much better future than rafale.

Actually it hasn't, because beeing cheap won't help in such competitions, if you don't have any political, or strategic support. Gripen is a good fighter and still found only 2 real export custormers, that bought hardly 40 fighters. Gripen NG is on offer for years, but no customer wants it and even the Swedish forces don't buy it so far. So the future of Gripen is way more in trouble than you might believe.

Yeah but don't forget about US over there. US is pressuring Brasil to purchase their fighters and there forces like gripen. Also Lula D'silva is stepping down now. Now the situation is changing and French might even lose.

The new president chose the same defense minister again and he is pro Rafale. The new president will take her own look on the things of course, but so far Rafale is still leading, especially because it is the obvious choice as a strategic partner for Brazil. It will be a political choice there as well!

My source is official eurofighter website and yours is wikipedia. So, i think the correct figure is 707.

Again, that's only the planed number, T3B is not ordered so far, only T3A and including them, only 559 EFs are on order now.
Italy already reduced the T3B order in favour of F35s and will probably switch completely, UK agreed even to T3A only under German pressure. Germany is reducing the military size dramatically and a cut of the last batch is beeing discussed as well.
So forget about planed stuff, the reality now is totally different!

By the way have you seen the pics of Dassault Neuron, the UCAV, they are now getting good response as many companies have teamed up with them. I think India should forget about AURA and should team up with them.

Neuron is only planed to be a tech demonstrator so far, but it will be interesting if BAE now would join as well and combine their UCAV development with the current Neuron partners. Maybe then they will switch to a real aircraft development.