Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[KEETARP]

Thats what i said - If there is no difference in airframe.

And bro just now i heard on forum post on *** that gripen has completed its phase3 earlier, Is it true???????????

 

[sancho]

Thats what i said - If there is no difference in airframe.

And bro just now i heard on forum post on *** that gripen has completed its phase3 earlier, Is it true???????????

Of course there is a difference in the airframe, otherwise it would increase weight from ~5,5t to ~ 7,1t, it get more internal fuel and payload too. But even if the airframe would be the same, the engines are important for the performance difference in different climats.

Sorry don't know about that, if you get more infos about its performance, or the performance of the other fighters during the trials, please post them here too!

 

[jha]

 

[jha]

 

[jha]

which one is more KOOL....??

 

[KEETARP]

F16 cool one

 

[jha]

Gripen and MIG-35 are expected to be the cheapest of the lot.Premier Putin's visit is eagerly anticipated as he is reputed for carrying quite a few tricks up his sleeve.The overall Indo-Russian defence relationship far exceeds anything imaginable in comparison with any other nation,most of all with the US.Nuclear subs,nuclear sub tech,nuclear power plants,nuclera sub bases,Gorshkov deal,Brahmos Amurs (anticipated),advanced missiles including anti-AWACS LR missiles,PAK-FA 5th-gen fighter,MTA,T-90s,FMBT development,offer of jet trainers,amphibians,apart from the existing Flanker production and MIG-29 upgrades and engine production,make the Russian pressure very hard to resist if its challenger comes along with "extras" as part of a package.With the extra MIG-29Ks signing expected during his visit and the Gorshkov price settled,one can be sure that Premier Putin will make an offer to the GOI which they will find difficult to refuse.In which case we might see more orders for MIGs as well as a western bird for the MMRCA.

The only strong factor that will be uppermost in the minds of the GOI is acquiring parallel western tech for providing our indigenous industry with a strong foundation upon which we can develop our own indigenous aircraft industry using the best of both worlds.While US tech is very welcome,if it can provide the same without the multiple strings and conditions that the Europeans do not insist upon,it is going to be a courageous govt. that wil opt solely for a US bird because of the fear of future sanctions,etc. during crisis ,especially for such a vital component of the IAF's inventory.

In a not too old interview our previous air chief,made an interesting statement ,that the "PAK-FA 5th-gen fighter would replace the MMRCA from about 2017..."! This is a most revealing statement of intent if true as it would indiate that the IAF wants only an interin fighter to make up numbers until the super-stealth bird arrives,well realising that the MMRCA birds belong to the 4+ to 4++ gen. at the most and will be swiftly outclassed by the 5th-gen bird whilst also being inferior to the existing Flanker and its future derivatives on order.This being the case,it explains some statements that over-exceeding the IAF's required capabilities will not bring in any "extra points" for the rivals as well as extra cost.

The imminent trip of the For.Sec. to the US for "high-tech" exports to India,could indicate that the issue of tech transfer and support to India has yet to be resolved and will be attempted so that the US birds get even with the Russians and Europeans.



although this is a copy-paste but an interesting way to look at some issues..so i thought it would be good read..

now gurus come on and start analyzing keeping these points also, so that rookies like me get a real dose of analysis..

 

[sancho]

Gripen and MIG-35 are expected to be the cheapest of the lot.Premier Putin's visit is eagerly anticipated as he is reputed for carrying quite a few tricks up his sleeve.The overall Indo-Russian defence relationship far exceeds anything imaginable in comparison with any other nation,most of all with the US.Nuclear subs,nuclear sub tech,nuclear power plants,nuclera sub bases,Gorshkov deal,Brahmos Amurs (anticipated),advanced missiles including anti-AWACS LR missiles,PAK-FA 5th-gen fighter,MTA,T-90s,FMBT development,offer of jet trainers,amphibians,apart from the existing Flanker production and MIG-29 upgrades and engine production,make the Russian pressure very hard to resist if its challenger comes along with "extras" as part of a package.With the extra MIG-29Ks signing expected during his visit and the Gorshkov price settled,one can be sure that Premier Putin will make an offer to the GOI which they will find difficult to refuse.In which case we might see more orders for MIGs as well as a western bird for the MMRCA.

The only strong factor that will be uppermost in the minds of the GOI is acquiring parallel western tech for providing our indigenous industry with a strong foundation upon which we can develop our own indigenous aircraft industry using the best of both worlds.While US tech is very welcome,if it can provide the same without the multiple strings and conditions that the Europeans do not insist upon,it is going to be a courageous govt. that wil opt solely for a US bird because of the fear of future sanctions,etc. during crisis ,especially for such a vital component of the IAF's inventory.

In a not too old interview our previous air chief,made an interesting statement ,that the "PAK-FA 5th-gen fighter would replace the MMRCA from about 2017..."! This is a most revealing statement of intent if true as it would indiate that the IAF wants only an interin fighter to make up numbers until the super-stealth bird arrives,well realising that the MMRCA birds belong to the 4+ to 4++ gen. at the most and will be swiftly outclassed by the 5th-gen bird whilst also being inferior to the existing Flanker and its future derivatives on order.This being the case,it explains some statements that over-exceeding the IAF's required capabilities will not bring in any "extra points" for the rivals as well as extra cost.

The imminent trip of the For.Sec. to the US for "high-tech" exports to India,could indicate that the issue of tech transfer and support to India has yet to be resolved and will be attempted so that the US birds get even with the Russians and Europeans.



although this is a copy-paste but an interesting way to look at some issues..so i thought it would be good read..

now gurus come on and start analyzing keeping these points also, so that rookies like me get a real dose of analysis..

The initial competition of course was to get numbers as fast and cost-effective as possible, but that changed with the re-issue, because now MMRCA and LCA will come at the same time, so if it was only for numbers, we had cleared the deal with Mirage 2000, or additional Migs before and had already most of them inducted.

This new competition is about more, imo about higher and especially supplementing capablilities to IAF fleet, joint techs (engine, co-developed AESA radar) and weapons for LCA and MMRCA to reduce costs and ToT which will give the Indian defense industry important imputs for future developments.

Technically, if IAF had gone for Mirage 2005, or Mig 29 SMT would be 4th gen only and there would be a big difference of capabilities in the fleet when Pak Fa will be inducted. In that time these (M)MRCAs would not even reached half of their lifetime and couldn't be replaced so fast, so going for more capable 4+ gen makes a lot of sense for the long term, because these fighters will serve alongside LCA, MKI and even Pak Fa for decades and must be as lethal.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Just google for mig project 1.44 which has been reinitated under a differnt label.
MCA could find a support here.

 

[jha]

yeah, new name was LMFS . india was reported to have shown keen interest in the project..however the russians liked the sukhoi project better and hence mig stands cancelled...however if india is still interested than maybe we could get the expertise of mig in helping out in MCA...

however if by any chance GRIPEN NG is chosen in MRCA than they would be willing to transfer any key tech. they have to us since swedan is a small country...and i personally would like them to be a silent partner in MCA rather than MIG..

 

[sancho]

yeah, new name was LMFS . india was reported to have shown keen interest in the project..however the russians liked the sukhoi project better and hence mig stands cancelled...however if india is still interested than maybe we could get the expertise of mig in helping out in MCA...

however if by any chance GRIPEN NG is chosen in MRCA than they would be willing to transfer any key tech. they have to us since swedan is a small country...and i personally would like them to be a silent partner in MCA rather than MIG..

I don't see how Mig 1.44 expertise should help MCA, just look at the Mig and the MCA wind tunnel model and you will see that both are totally different designs.
The problem is, what key techs could Saab offer us that would be interesting? The Gripen NG engine is made in USA, the radar made in ITA/UK, which are exactly the 2 techs where LCA is lacking behind. Especially now that BAE bags out of Saab it will be interesting to see, how much radar ToT really will be on offer.
Saab also has no experience in making a fighter carrier capable, so wouldn't be a help for N-LCA, or if IN wants, N-MCA. The only advantages I see are, latest avionics (which we could develop with France, or Israel as well) and in stealth technology via stealthy UCAV developments like NEURON.

 

[sudhir007]

News related to Gripen-NG

Gripen NG Demonstrator flight tests in progress idrw.org
The flight test programme with Gripen NG Demonstrator continues according to plan at the Saab facilities in Linköping. The latest flight, number 117 since the flight test programme started, was flown today.

We are now testing all the tactical systems, such as the AESA radar and the new communications system. The test programme is very extensive, and the unusually harsh cold and snowy winter here in Sweden has challenged the programme schedule but we are now quickly catching up, says Mattias Bergström, the Gripen NG Demonstrator project manager.

We have finished, and successfully verified, the flight tests of the electro-optical Missile Approach Warning System (MAW) and the new fuel system with larger internal fuel tanks.

The Gripen NG is the next generation of the Gripen fighter, which is in service with the air forces of Sweden, the Czech Republic, Hungary and South Africa. It is also ordered by the Royal Thai Air Force and is flown by the Empire Test Pilots School, ETPS, in the UK.

 

[sancho]

News related to Gripen-NG

We are now testing all the tactical systems, such as the AESA radar and the new communications system. The test programme is very extensive, and the unusually harsh cold and snowy winter here in Sweden has challenged the programme schedule but we are now quickly catching up, says Mattias Bergström, the Gripen NG Demonstrator project manager.

We have finished, and successfully verified, the flight tests of the electro-optical Missile Approach Warning System (MAW) and the new fuel system with larger internal fuel tanks.

Good for them, but no use for India, because we can only test the old stuff in the trials.

 

[jha]

something about SH..any impact on MRCA competition..

Pressure Builds for More Hornets; Multi-Year OK Likely

By Colin Clark Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 12:17 pm
Posted in Air, Naval, Policy
Congressional pressure on the Pentagon to buy more F/A-18 E/Fs and use multi-year authority continues to build, with Sen. Kit Bond being the latest to leap on the bandwagon at today’s Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing.

Bond sent a St. Patrick’s Day letter to Defense Secretary Robert Gates urging use of the multi-year authority and he pressed the Navy’s top leaders on the need for more Hornets. Navy Secretary Ray Mabus said the Navy believes Boeing’s February proposal for a multi-year deal meets the “threshold” for multi-year savings. The numbers are being reviewed by the Office of Secretary of Defense’s CAPE and Mabus told me a decision should be forthcoming in a few weeks, “sometime in April.”

The debate is sure to grow more heated with the news last week that the Navy and Marines were forced to red stripe — ground — 104 Hornets of models A through D. While it isn’t clear yet whether some of these planes will be pulled off the line there are already flight restrictions on the fleet of older Hornets. And that, a congressional aide noted, means the service life extension programs being considered for the Hornet may have to be scaled back.

The congressional aide, who follows the Hornet debate, said there are “No specifics on how many will be permanently grounded. Inspections ongoing. The big concern is that even after the visual inspection, there are still G limits on the planes until they get electronically inspected. This red stripe certainly raises questions about the Navy trying to SLEP legacy Hornets to 10,000 flight hours. There are all kinds of holes in the Navy’s plan to reduce the strike fighter shortfall. You can expect to hear more about it in the near future.”

However, Adm. Gary Roughead, chief of naval operations, told reporters after today’s hearing that very few — half a dozen — of the grounded planes have shown serious cracks that warrant concern. The grounding, he said, is actually giving the Navy the chance to do more detailed inspections earlier than it had planned. And it should not deter the planned SLEP, he claimed.

The other big story of the hearing was the Navy’s careful efforts to fend off attacks on the Littoral Combat Ship’s request for proposal. Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, where the aluminum-hulled trimaran LCS is built, criticized the Navy for not taking life cycle costs into consideration and urged Mabus and Roughead to “amend” the RFP.

“A lot of us are concerned that the pending RFP does not appear to take capability and life cycle costs into consideration,” Shelby said.

Mabus deflected Shelby, saying the Navy “has a lot of confidence in this RFP. It’s well written and well designed.” Asked by a reporter about the chances for a bid protest and how the Navy might handle one, Roughead said “a protest would be extraordinarily disruptive” to the service.

DoD Buzz | Pressure Builds for More Hornets; Multi-Year OK Likely

 

[jha]

Boeing: willing to license F/A-18 production to Japan

TOKYO (Reuters) - Boeing Co said it is willing to outsource some production of its F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter planes to Japanese firms if the Japanese government decides to buy them as the country's next mainstay fighter aircraft.

Japan has yet to decide how it will replace its current fleet of aging F-4 Phantom fighters, whose design dates back to the 1960s and which have become increasingly difficult to maintain.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is also set to end production of its F-2 aircraft in 2011.

Boeing is prepared to collaborate with Japanese heavy machinery and small parts manufacturers to make F/A-18 Super Hornet jets, Joe Song, Boeing's vice president for defense activities in Asia-Pacific, told Reuters in an interview.

"Final assembly, run and check-out...that's the minimum we can certainly provide. We can discuss other options to help the Japanese fighter industry," he said.

The world's second-largest defense contractor said it would be able to deliver up to 10 Super Hornets to Japan in 2015 if the government decides to buy them this year.

INTERVIEW - Boeing: willing to license F/A-18 production to Japan | Business News | Reuters