Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[DMLA]

Found this interesting article!

The Indian Air Force Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) Competition, commonly known as the MRCA Tender, is an ongoing competition to supply the Indian Air Force with 126 Multi-Role Combat Aircraft.

The air force requirement for the MMRCA is based on a maximum all-up weight of 14,000-30,000 kg. (31,000-66,000 lb.). India plans to procure 18 aircraft in flyaway condition and produce 106 locally under license through technology transfer. Delivery starts within 36 months of contract signing and will be completed 48 months later.

Six aircraft were bid for this multi-billion dollar contract, which has been touted as India’s single largest defence deal ever. These represent some of the latest combat aircraft being developed or fielded today.

■Dassault Rafale
■Eurofighter Typhoon
■Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper
■Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
■Saab Gripen NG
■Mikoyan MiG-35
Dassault Rafale:

The Rafale is a twin-engined, delta-wing, multirole fighter designed and built by France’s Dassault Aviation. RAFALE supportability and mission readiness capitalise on the undisputed track record of the current generation of French fighters such as the combat-proven Mirage 2000.

Powered by two Snecma M88 turbofans (prototype examples used two General Electric F404-400s), the Rafale has a top speed of over Mach 1.8 (1,900km/h) and a combat radius of 1,000nm (1,850km).

Eurofighter Typhoon:

The four nation Eurofighter Typhoon is a foreplane delta wing beyond-visual-range and close air fighter aircraft with surface attack capability. Eurofighter has high agility at supresonic speed and ’supercruise’ capability, that is it can fly at sustained speeds of over Mach 1 without the use of afterburner.

The company carrying out the development of the aircraft is Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH based in Munich and wholly owned by Alenia of Italy, British Aerospace of the UK, CASA of Spain and DASA of Germany. The company responsible for the development of the EJ200 engine is Eurojet GmbH, in Munich which is owned by Rolls Royce, Motoren und Turbinen Union, Fiat Aviazione and ITP.

The EJ200 engine has been developed by Eurojet GmbH, in Munich which is owned by Rolls-Royce, MTU Aero Engines, Fiat Aviazione and ITP.

Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper

The F-16IN Super Viper is a unique new fighter sharing a heritage with the world’s only fifth generation fighters – the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and the F-22 Raptor. Evolutionary integration of fifth generation technologies makes the F-16IN the most advanced fourth generation fighter in the world today.

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

The Super Hornet is about 25% larger than its predecessor, the F/A-18C/D but contains 42% fewer structural parts. The single seat F/A-18/E and the two seat F/A-18/F flies greater ranges, with heavier payloads, uses a more powerful engine and provides greater survivability.

Saab Gripen NG

The JAS 39 Gripen is a fourth-generation fighter manufactured by Swedish company Saab. Designed as a swing-role type capable of performing multiple missions.

Powered by a single Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan based on the General Electric F404, the Gripen is capable of speeds of up to Mach 2 and has a maximum range of 2,800km (1,510nm).

Weapon options include a 27mm Mauser internal cannon, Raytheon AIM-9 Sidewinder and AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles and Raytheon Paveway II laser-guided bombs. The aircraft is also being used to support the development of MBDA’s Meteor beyond visual-range air-to-air missile.

Mikoyan MiG-35 (Fulcrum-F)

The Mikoyan MiG-35 is a further development of the MiG-29M/M2 and MiG-29K/KUB technology. It is classified as a 4++ generation jet fighter by its manufacturer. The MiG-35 is now classed as a medium-weight aircraft because its maximum take-off weight has increased by 30 percent which exceeds its previous criteria of classification.

With an increase to its MTOW as much as 30 percent, the MiG-35 is now considered in the medum weight class. The aircraft is codenamed “Fulcrum-F” by NATO and is considered a full-fledged multi-role platform utilizing the latest in targeting and tracking systems comparable to Western aircraft types.

Advanced computerized avionics in control of fly by wire flight surfaces combined with thrust vectoring give the aircraft a speed range from 0 mph forward speed to supersonic, all the while maintaining the maneuverability to simultaneously evade enemy missiles while engaging numerous targets. The MiG-35 can deliver up to 12,000 lbs. of ordnance against air, ground and maritime targets with pinpoint accuracy.

Considerations: Strategic considerations may influence government’s final decision.
MiG-35

Zhuk AE AESA radar the most powerful amidst the MMRCA contenders.
Russia, on top of a full technology transfer, is offering India help in building its own advanced radar.
100 per cent technology transfer for the MiG-35, including the radar and all its systems.
Airframe barely improved from MiG-29
Life cycle cost of Russian fighters is traditionally high

Super Hornet

Battle-tested, frontline fighter with the US Navy
can function as refuelling tanker with external fuel tanks
US restrictions on modifications and end usage
Earlier generation design, dating back to 1980s
Heavy, 30-ton aircraft, expensive

Super Viper

Tested modern fighter, has logged over 100,000 combat missions globally
Single-engine, 19-tonne fighter, price competitive
Advanced Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar
Four F-16 production lines functioning world-wide
Earlier vintage F-16s in service with Pakistan Air Force

Typhoon

Contemporary fighter, still evolving
High performance, high-end technology, including supercruise
Offering India development partnership
No end user restrictions, easy transfer of technology
EADS already helping to develop India’s LCA
No combat experience
Heavy, 25-ton aircraft, expensive
AESA radar still under development

Gripen

Can land, refuel, rearm and take off in 10 minutes
Light, single-engine, highly cost-effective
Selex Raven AESA radar with advanced swashplate technology
Willing to hand over source codes for high-tech equipment
SAAB offering an advanced version of a state-of-the-art a second generation AESA (advanced extended search array radar), The radar will come with its software source code.
Gripen is way to dependent on other countries (engine, radar, or the main weapons), what would be a problem if India face sanctions again and it could not share any techs with LCA without permission of them.
Has US components, including engines and avionics
India has never operated a Swedish fighter

Rafale

France deploys on land and aircraft carriers
IAF’s Mirage-2000 fleet creates comfort level with Dassault
Transfer of technology smooth; no end user restrictions
Only non-US fighter with deployed AESA radar
Limited combat experience
25-tonne, twin-engine aircraft, expensive

link: http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2010/03/04/indian-mrca-competition-who-will-win

 

[KEETARP]

Actually i read that article earlier
This is from CEO business Magazine
Any way thnx

And DMLA/Sancho do you guys follow janes or do you have a Subscription
Actually there is an latest article on MRCA - It might change all equation

 

[DMLA]

Actually i read that article earlier
This is from CEO business Magazine
Any way thnx

And DMLA/Sancho do you guys follow janes or do you have a Subscription
Actually there is an latest article on MRCA - It might change all equation

I do. Which week's edition? Lemme know and I will get back asap!

 

[KEETARP]

I do. Which week's edition? Lemme know and I will get back asap!

here is the link
Jane's Defence Weekly - Your first line of defence

Search the article its like-
India considers tandem MMRCA radar competition
The Indian Air Force (IAF) may run a separate radar competition in tandem with its Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme, Russian industry sources have...

I guess they update that page daily so it has been moved to archives which is visible to paid subscribers only, it was there 24 hrs ago
I actually asked it earlier also - no one responded
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-94.html#post706799

 

[DMLA]

Dude I can't find it in the link

Anyhow, I have access to the JDW. I have the march 3rd copy in my hands and apart from a small article on probable downsizing of the number of companies (MMRCA) there is no other mmrca related news. There is a news article on MBT simulator trials and another one on indo-chinese joint air force exercises! That's about it!

Sorry can't help you anymore....

 

[KEETARP]

Dude I can't find it in the link

Anyhow, I have access to the JDW. I have the march 3rd copy in my hands and apart from a small article on probable downsizing of the number of companies (MMRCA) there is no other mmrca related news. There is a news article on MBT simulator trials and another one on indo-chinese joint air force exercises! That's about it!

Sorry can't help you anymore....

Actually i found it
Jane's Defence Weekly - Asia/Pacific

Scroll a bit down - Its the 8th news from top

Plz post the detail asap - i am eager to know

 

[DMLA]

Actually i found it
Jane's Defence Weekly - Asia/Pacific

Scroll a bit down - Its the 8th news from top

Plz post the detail asap - i am eager to know

Dude I don't have access to JDW online. Give me a few days and I will try and get access to the article through someone!

tc.

 

[KEETARP]

Dude I don't have access to JDW online. Give me a few days and I will try and get access to the article through someone!

tc.

Thnx -get it done as soon as possible
I am also trying to get my friends from IAF ( Batchmates) to help me out with this.

 

[DMLA]

You've probably read the reports about BAE Systems divesting a large part of its shareholding in Gripen/Saab with the intention to pull out completely from the company shortly. From the way things look right now, it appears Gripen is relieved to be rid of the British company. The rationale -- the BAE tag brought enormous negative perceptions, and continues to cast a shadow on deals already signed. For India, the pull-out gives BAE conditions to focus unequivocally on the Typhoon, rather than keep at a stand-off distance with fingers in two contending pies. The Gripen field evaluation trials (the last in the series) begin shortly. The just concluded Eurofighter trials went through well, sources have just told me. Stay tuned for updates.

Source: LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: BAE Pulls Out Of Saab, Gripen Feels Cleansed

 

[Dash]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogVie wPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a9f6f828e-4f32-42d9-be7e-54daa51b1634&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=b logDest

@ Sancho - Here is the link to the article....some big link.
@ LT Prateek - I will give my response soon for the swashplate radar discussion.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: BAE Pulls Out Of Saab, Gripen Feels Cleansed

BAE Pulls Out Of Saab, Gripen Feels Cleansed

You've probably read the reports about BAE Systems divesting a large part of its shareholding in Gripen/Saab with the intention to pull out completely from the company shortly. From the way things look right now, it appears Gripen is relieved to be rid of the British company. The rationale -- the BAE tag brought enormous negative perceptions, and continues to cast a shadow on deals already signed. For India, the pull-out gives BAE conditions to focus unequivocally on the Typhoon, rather than keep at a stand-off distance with fingers in two contending pies. The Gripen field evaluation trials (the last in the series) begin shortly. The just concluded Eurofighter trials went through well, sources have just told me. Stay tuned for updates.

 

[sancho]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: BAE Pulls Out Of Saab, Gripen Feels Cleansed

BAE Pulls Out Of Saab, Gripen Feels Cleansed

You've probably read the reports about BAE Systems divesting a large part of its shareholding in Gripen/Saab with the intention to pull out completely from the company shortly. From the way things look right now, it appears Gripen is relieved to be rid of the British company. The rationale -- the BAE tag brought enormous negative perceptions, and continues to cast a shadow on deals already signed. For India, the pull-out gives BAE conditions to focus unequivocally on the Typhoon, rather than keep at a stand-off distance with fingers in two contending pies. The Gripen field evaluation trials (the last in the series) begin shortly. The just concluded Eurofighter trials went through well, sources have just told me. Stay tuned for updates.

Wonder how that will change the source code and ToT offer of the Selex radar where BAE also is a partner?

All the talk of joint projects et al..... they never provide us with so called "technology". These projects invovlve the transfer of complete systems from the partner and the local agencies like DRDO do integration !
There are many examples with some of the latest being proposed SRSAM with french and barak with israel !!

That happen in the past, exactly because we were only a simple buyer like anybody else, so they had no need to provide us more than ToT to assemble the fighters in India. But see the difference since the MKI procurement!
We not only customized the fighter for our needs, we made the deal with the production of nearly all parts in India, so we are not reliant on Russian supply of spares like in the past. I don't think this would be possible if they didn't provided us with cearly more ToT than before right?
So we already used ToT to improve our situation and my point is that MMRCA must be decided by the package of advantages for IAF/MoD/GoI/indigenous industry and not only to give IAF the best fighter! It is simply not enough for us, to buy the best fighter only, or remain in a simple buyer-seller relation like the Gulf states and as reliant on foreign countries. If we pay for foreign arms, they must not only improve our forces, but also to some extend our industry for the future.

My only contention is that the armed forces are tasked with a very important job. I don't feel it is right for them to go for compromises when they are putting their lives on the line everyday!

Added later: It is the job of DPSU's to develop necessary systems. Why should IAF be obliged to change its stance and go for inferior systems just so DRDO could get the technology? I agree that compromises can be made, but I hope IAF's choices (wrt MMRCA) are looked at favourably!!

Of course IAF choice will make be amajor factor, but we are not searching for a new main air superiority fighter, MMRCA is just an addition to MKI and a replacement for a part of the Mig 21 fleet. So there are not really many compromises IAF would have to make, because all fighters are clear improvements of the fleet! My guess is that IAF prefers good A2G capabilities and that will be the main difference for them.

 

[DMLA]

Two Swedish Air Force JAS-39 Gripen-Ds departed Sweden on Sunday and are on their way to India as we speak for the final round of the field evaluation trials (FET) under the Indian medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition. The Gripens begin their trials at the Aircraft Systems & Testing Establishment (ASTE) in Bangalore early this week. The Gripen-Ds are being flown by Saab test pilots and Swedish air force pilots.

"IAF test pilots have already undergone intensive training on the aircraft and the aircraft have already undergone the first stage of trials in Linkoping in November 2009, which included flight performance, logistics capability, weapons systems, advanced sensors and weapons firing," said Gripen India campaign head Eddy de la Motte in response to an e-mail I sent in to Saab.

Asked about whether the Gripen Demo aircraft -- on which the Gripen IN is based (see here) -- would figure in the trials at all, de la Motte said, "The Demo is a development vehicle which the IAF will have complete access to within the current parameters of development. Gripen NG capabilities have been demonstrated during the evaluation trials in November 2009 when the Indian evaluation team was in Sweden."

link: LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Gripens Depart Sweden For Trials In India

 

[KEETARP]

Movements of Mirage 2000 to support​

Des mouvements de Mirage 2000 pour supporter le Rafale (Partie 2). | Aviation militaire

After traveling to Brazil and the UAE in search of uncorked for used Mirage 2000 and Rafale, we will focus on Iraq, where France is trying to make a comeback.

We also go to Kuwait where the Rafale is still in contention for the purchase of new aircraft but who knows economic hardship. Finally, we take our flight to India we talk a lot now. Between renovation Mirage 2000H and attempt to sell the Rafale, we see that the Mirage 2000 was still an important part in these negotiations.

Iraq: Consider the development of the Mirage 2000.
We talked recently, the progress in Iraq France. While the country was one of the suppliers favorite former Iraqi regime, U.S. intervention has changed the situation. Even TOTAL, yet historically close to the Iraqis failed to secure a major contract with English side of Shell. Only today, the dialogue between Paris and Baghdad is again open.
Recently, the Iraqi military in France asked to kindly honor its commitments to the delivery of 24 Mirage F1. The aircraft ordered before the war were never delivered because of the arms embargo. If this case we will detail in a previous article, it is ultimately the Mirage F1CT gradually withdrawn from service in France who could take the route of 'Iraq. The country has a total of 114 Mirage F1 at different operational stages.
In front of the Mirage, the eternal American F-16 attempted a raid in Iraq. Dominant in the country, Americans do not appreciate the reopening of dialogue between French and Iraqis. In addition to the operational needs of the armies, but Baghdad wants control over its airspace faster. Helped by windfall oil but handicapped by a country to rebuild, Iraqis have bread on the plate. However, threats and challenge the withdrawal of foreign forces, Baghdad might be open to a new proposal. If the sale of Rafale seems absurd, the Mirage 2000 could come back rub to F-16. It is believed then to UAE Mirage 2000-9 whose value can be negotiated.

Kuwait: go to the evidence.
During his tour in the Gulf in February 2009, President Sarkozy had said that discussions would be open with Kuwait about a possible sale from 14 to 28 copies of the multi-role combat aircraft, Dassault Rafale Aviation. At one point it was thought that the Saab Gripen had taken the market yet, the Kuwaiti authorities have reaffirmed their interest in the French hunter. It also deserves "special attention" when the contracts are potentially many in the country . Besides aircraft, France could sell warships and a nuclear reactor.
Kuwait, however, wanted to follow very closely the current negotiations with the United Arab Emirates. However, as we now know these negotiations would be getting on well. In this case, the Rafale would become the favorite of Kuwait City.
Meanwhile, what could be the initial choice of Kuwait for the Gripen could whet the appetite of the French. If it is assumed that Kuwait can not afford Rafale for reasons of economic rationality, the country might be willing to afford the Mirage 2000. Still, this option is impractical. On the one hand the Kuwaitis want surely match the United Arab Emirates in the choice of a fourth-generation device +. On the other hand, it would once again provide practice in the country Mirage 2000-9 which would then Emirates. Used equipment which should perhaps not in this country.

India:
The renovation of the fifty Mirage 2000H advance.
Everyone knows that Dassault competition in India with its Rafale for the largest tender of the moment. 126 combat aircraft will be purchased by New Delhi and the competition is fierce. If the F-16I for Israel had developed a time favorite, the Eurofighter consortium led by EADS seems he took the ascendancy. But with historic cooperation between Russia and France, the Indian market has not yet played. In all cases, if the contract amounted to industry lights would be another step forward for a Franco-Indian cooperation further.
Thus, contracts are increasing in India. In negotiations for years, upgrading the Mirage 2000H has never been so close to an agreement. The information revealed by the Times of India is significant because a French delegation is expected in the country next month. It is to be finally agreed on the exclusive contract that would commit the French industrialists, led by Thales and the DGA, for forty years. The amount of this agreement is valued at € 1.5bn, but again, the price wedges. It would be 30% more than wishes to pay the Indian Air Strength.
Once is not custom, a significant effort must be made in the French camp. While India has preferred a single tender in the direction of Thales and its allies, the Israeli companies are not far away and watch everything. Finally, compensation industry will once again be crucial in obtaining this contract. If a handful of Mirage should join the hexagon, the vast majority of them should be upgraded on Indian soil. The French will work well with HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Limited) to upgrade the hunters.

How abt this angle

Actually i have much more imp news -
F18+F16 are almost out of French Competition- Only formalities are left
Apoio de Lula ao Irã Faz Obama Cancelar Visita ao Brasil em 2010 @ Blog Defesa BR

Hilary Back in US after Failed Brazil visit- Obama to miss Visit
Hillary back in the U.S. without being able to circumvent trade disputes with Brazil and Obama cancels visit to Lula
Claudio Dantas Sequeira
The "positive agenda" that the U.S. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, wanted to open on his visit to Brasilia on Wednesday 3, should be forgotten in the bottom drawer. At least until the end of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.

Despite filing facilities, reception to Hillary at the Foreign Ministry has not been very diplomatic. Both Lula and Foreign Minister Celso Amorim preferred to use the meeting to mark positions in support of negotiations with Oirã address and, frankly, the trade disputes involving tariff barriers to ethanol and retaliation authorized by OrganizaçãoMundial Trade Organization (WTO) in the case of cotton.

Clinton, who expected a friendly contact in which convince the Brazilian government to purchase F-18 Super Hornet, went away disappointed. "The Brazilians say they lack confidence in the relationship with the U.S.," she lamented with his aides.

The worst for Secretary of State were the statements about the Amorim da Silva's support on Iran "We can not bend. We think with our own head, "cried Amorim. Lula, in turn, said that one can not "wall in Iran."

The most immediate consequence of the position of Brazil, according determine this, the suspension will be "sine die" of President Barack Obama, which should occur in the first half.

"The trip was put aside," says a diplomat who attended the meeting between Amorim and Hillary. A last attempt to approach will be made on Tuesday 9, with the arrival of U.S. Secretary of Commerce, Gary Locke.

But it should not bear fruit because Amorim said that the list of American products subject to retaliation authorized by the WTO against U.S. subsidies for cotton will be announced the day before.

The WTO authorized Brazil to retaliate up to $ 830 million annual U.S. products and the government is working on a list of up to 120 items that will suffer the import surcharge.

On the possibility of an American contrarretaliação, Amorim abused irony: "In this scare I do not die. I can not imagine that the U.S., which promoted the creation of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, WTO, will use an instrument outside of international rules, "he said. Hillary has shown good will: "We have time to try to resolve this peacefully and productively."

According to the professor of economics at the Trevisan Business School, Alcides Milk, "the businessmen of both countries have most to gain from the expansion of the staff than with the sanctions that tend to feed a negative cycle." He points out that decision favorable to the WTO may be a "bargaining chip" in other negotiations.

Hence the U.S. effort in a positive agenda that helps to open the market for U.S. exports. With the recent approval of the Board of an agreement to exchange tax information are expected to progress negotiations on the end of double taxation. But none of this will advance while the diplomatic wrangling continues over the Iranian nuclear issue.

Our Review:

Lula's support to Iran Cancel Obama Makes Visit to Brazil in 2010

For the first time in recent history, Brazil can distance themselves from the addiction that kept the United States. This should not only be a policy of the Lula government, but a policy of the Brazilian state.

No matter if the attitude of administration is for or against Iran, but it is certainly against the interests of American domination of the Middle East, initiated by Iraq, and then extended to Afghanistan, through other subjects.

Moreover, in the case of the cotton dispute, Brazil, today announced an unprecedented list of American products to be overcharged with an increase in import tariff, which is a retaliation for and legally authorized by the WTO.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton took too long to decide to visit Brazil. Arrived late and returned early. If she expected a friendly contact, was disappointed to hear the Brazilians who lack confidence in the relationship with the U.S..

But what she wanted? Wonder: who's to blame? Well, read this link and reflect quite calm about how and where we came painfully in the process of geopolitical independence.

Brazil is seeking its place in the world and now freed from the shackles and whip of the U.S..

 

[Aryaputra]

It is simply not enough for us, to buy the best fighter only, or remain in a simple buyer-seller relation like the Gulf states and as reliant on foreign countries. If we pay for foreign arms, they must not only improve our forces, but also to some extend our industry for the future.

True.

MRCA is not about choosing "best fighter". Its much more than that.