Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Indus Falcon]

French Minister's Visit to India To Feature Talks on Rafale Sale
Jun. 27, 2014 -By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI

NEW DELHI— Discussions to resolve contract differences on India’s planned purchase of Dassault Rafale fighters for its $12 billion Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program are likely to top the agenda when French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius begins a two-day visit to New Delhi on June 30.

A diplomat in the French Embassy said they hope for an early conclusion of the contract for the Rafale, which has been negotiated for more than two years. India’s Ministry of Defense (MoD) and Dassault officials have held dozens of meetings to iron out issues relating to transfer of technology, production processes and cost of the Rafale to be produced in India.

MoD sources said the negotiations will take “some more time,” and the French minister is unlikely to return to Paris with a firm commitment on the final time frame to sign the contract.

The Indian Air Force plans to buy 126 fighters to replace aging Russian-made MiG aircraft.

The French minister will also discuss Indo-French nuclear cooperation. France has submitted a tender for two 1,650-megawatts reactors for the Jaitapur nuclear site in the central Indian state of Maharashtra.

The French diplomat said they want to learn the views of the new government, led by Narendra Modi, on a nuclear liability law and how it could affect the French nuclear companies. The Indian Parliament framed a law in 2010 on nuclear liability that puts heavy financial responsibility on suppliers and contractors in case of an accident.

French Minister's Visit to India To Feature Talks on Rafale Sale | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[PARIKRAMA]

India's Rafale Fighter Jet Deal in Final Lap, Awaits Government's Nod
All India | Written by Nitin Gokhale | Updated: June 29, 2014 10:50 IST

The Air Force currently only has 32 squadrons

• New Delhi: The Indian Air Force or IAF may lose its traditional conventional edge against Pakistan if the contract to buy 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft or MMRCA is not clinched immediately, senior IAF officials told Defence Minister Arun Jaitley at an extensive briefing recently. (Defence Minister Briefed on Indian Air Force's Operational Preparedness)
  
  French aerospace major Dassault Aviation had won the contract to supply the fighter jets to the IAF in 2012.
  
  The Air Force, which ideally requires 44 squadrons but can manage with 39, currently only has 32 squadrons; 12 of them of the near-obsolete MiG-21s.
  
  Mr Jaitley had only one query: what is the cost of the contract?
  
  The IAF's answer -- Rs. 100,000 crore spread over 10 years -- immediately evoked a positive reaction from Mr Jaitley, sources in the Ministry of Defence told NDTV. (Dassault Hopes to Sign Rafale India Deal This Year)
  
  The enthused IAF brass now says that if the government gives the final clearance, the massive, and in many ways the first-of-its-kind contract, may be clinched in the next six months.
  
  Three sub-sets of the complicated deal have been completed, say sources. The committees that were in charge of Offsets, Maintenance, Transfer of Technology have concluded their work; it took them over two years to prepare documents running into thousands of pages. These include details of work share between Dassault and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd or HAL, liabilities and costs to maintain and run the 126 jets. (A big step in India's Rafale jet deal with France)
  
  Over 41 articles in the defence procurement procedure or DPP have been taken on board while arriving at the final documentation. HAL has been designated the lead domestic production agency. 18 of the 126 jets will be produced in France and the remaining 108 will be manufactured at the production unit in India. (Depleted fighter fleet is worrisome, says Air Chief)
  
  But the committee responsible for costs and contract is yet to finalise its report. Once the deal officially receives clearance, this part of the contract may be ready for signing in less than two months, say sources. (France sees first Rafale jet deliveries to India by 2016)
  
  Meanwhile, many of Rafale's competitors are lobbying hard against the contract and running down the fighter aircraft over various counts, including 'prohibitive' costs.
  
  But the IAF top brass is clear that the process to buy the MMRCA is irreversible, notwithstanding a view that the IAF must induct the HAL-made Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas instead of buying the expensive Rafale.
  
  IAF officials point out that the Tejas is yet to receive final operational clearance despite the home-grown fighter aircraft being in the making for over 30 years. As per revised timelines, the first full Tejas squadron in the Initial Operational Clearance configuration will be in place only by 2016-2017.
  
  "We have been hand-holding the LCA for a long time and will continue to support it. But it is not a replacement for a medium, multirole fighter aircraft. Its reach is barely 200 km while we need an aircraft with a reach of at least 1000-km if we have to pose any challenge in the Tibet Autonomous Region, where India expects a major threat to its air combat power in case of a conflict with China," said a top IAF officer.
  
  Meanwhile, the Rafale deal is likely to be on top of the agenda during French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius's two-day visit to India, which starts today.
  
  The question now is whether prime minister Narendra Modi and defence minister Arun Jaitley will also treat the deal as a matter of top priority.

India's Rafale Fighter Jet Deal in Final Lap, Awaits Government's Nod - NDTV

 

[cloud_9]

Double post.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Mr Jaitley had only one query: what is the cost of the contract?

The IAF's answer -- Rs. 100,000 crore spread over 10 years -- immediately evoked a positive reaction from Mr Jaitley, sources in the Ministry of Defence told NDTV.

The enthused IAF brass now says that if the government gives the final clearance, the massive, and in many ways the first-of-its-kind contract, may be clinched in the next six months.

Meanwhile, many of Rafale's competitors are lobbying hard against the contract and running down the fighter aircraft over various counts, including 'prohibitive' costs.

But the IAF top brass is clear that the process to buy the MMRCA is irreversible,

Meanwhile, the Rafale deal is likely to be on top of the agenda during French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius's two-day visit to India, which starts today.

India's Rafale Fighter Jet Deal in Final Lap, Awaits Government's Nod

 

[atlssa]

DRDO's claims on Light Combat Aircraft export unrealistic: Former IAF officers - Firstpost
Jun 29, 2014

New Delhi: DRDO's claim about being in a position to export Light Combat Aircraft Tejas has been dismissed as premature and unrealistic by former top IAF officers who want it to focus on getting the indigenous fighter plane inducted into own air force first. "It is good to have ambitions but there are several miles to go before we can talk or think about exporting LCA. It is too early to talk about this as it has to be fist inducted into IAF before we take a decision on selling these planes," former IAF chief Air Chief Marshal S Krishnaswamy said.

He was reacting to DRDO's claim that it can sell light-weight multirole LCA to friendly foreign countries in future. Krishnaswamy said DRDO and the country will have to be "realistic" as for exporting the aircraft. The country will have to make huge investments to create a new and big production line for mass production of these aircraft, he said.The development of the home-grown fighter aircraft, which recently got 'Initial Operational Clearance' by IAF, has already taken 30 years at an estimated cost of over Rs 17,000 crore.

However, the induction is still awaited as IAF has not yet given the 'Final Operation Clearance'. Production of the aircraft is estimated to push up the cost further. Krishnaswamy said when it comes to exporting combat aircraft or helicopters, the seller has to provide long-term fleet support to the customer countries and "DRDO has no exposure to such fleet management practices."

"We had exported some choppers to a country and one of them crashed during the national day parade of that particular nation. So, we should first focus on developing the aircraft for our own requirements and then think of other things," he said.

DRDO's claims to export the LAC Tejas are unrealistic, says former top IAF brass.
Representational Image. AFP​

Krishnaswamy said the first indigenously built bomber HF-24 Marut aircraft had to go through several modifications due to problems experienced in it even several years after it was inducted in IAF.

"Moreover, you may talk about exports but the point is that who will buy such an aircraft which has taken so long for being developed and there are so many choices available for countries to buy such planes," he said.

Former Deputy Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal (retd) N V Tyagi said as a concept, the idea of exporting LCA is good as it will create revenue but one must realise that any foreign customer will buy it only after seeing its performance in the Indian Air Force, where it is yet to be inducted.

"To show its performance, it has to serve in the force for quite some time and only then, one should start thinking about exporting it," he said.

The LCA programme was initiated in the early 1980s but it has seen several delays and time and cost over-runs which have led to the postponement of phasing out of the vintage Russia-origin MiG 21 combat aircraft from the air force.

As per government plans, six squadrons of LCA would be manufactured of which two would be LCA MK-I while the remaining would be the MK-II version. A squadron comprises around 20 aircraft. DRDO has also contracted for American GE-414 engines which would provide a stronger thrust to LCA-MK II whereas the initial two squadrons will be powered by the GE-404 power plants.

The first squadron of the fighter plane would be deployed at the Sulur air base in Tamil Nadu and the later ones are expected to replace MiG 21 squadrons at their respective bases.

DRDO's claims on Light Combat Aircraft export unrealistic: Former IAF officers - Firstpost

 

[halloweene]

 

[atlssa]

MoD mulls downsizing Rafale contract | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
Wednesday, 2 July 2014
Pradip R. Sagar

As the French foreign minister Laurent Fabius met Indian political leadership, including prime minister Narendra Modi, pressing for sealing the multi-billion Rafale combat aircraft deal, New Delhi has raised serious concerns over the cost escalation of the fighter jet deal. Struggling to pay the heavy cost of the deal, the ministry of defence (MoD) is considering an option of down-sizing the deal from 126 to 80 fighter jets.

According to officials, who are privy to the development, defence ministry has asked the French government to revise the price structure because the deal has gone much beyond the expected lines. And during course of negotiations with the Dassault, which manufactures Rafale jets, the defence ministry has been asking for price revision. Due to difference of opinion, the cost negotiation committee, which was set up in February 2012 to work out the modalities for the deal, has not been able reach conclusion and the committee is yet to submit its report to the ministry.

Officials claim that in 2007, when the tender was floated, the cost of the programme was $12 billion. When the lowest bidder was declared in January 2012, the cost of the deal shot up to $18 billion (Rs1.08 lakh crore). And now with inclusion of transfer of technology, life cycle cost and creating assembly line, the deal has virtually cross whopping $20 billion.

A top official told dna that if the government signs the deal in the next couple of months, it has to pay advance payment of at least $1.5-2 billion (Rs.9- 12,000 crore) to Dassault. And for the newly-elected BJP-led NDA government will have to compromise on other defence equipment, as major chunk of defence budget will go in for the advance payment. And it is also believed to understand that new government is also not comfortable with the life cycle cost method adopted by the previous UPA-II government and even a senior BJP leader and former finance minister Yashwant Sinha had objected to the life cycle criteria.

"Cost escalations and disagreements over production sharing with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL) has led to the delay in freezing the contract. French have been asked to re-look at the price factor,"said an officer.

IAF officials maintain even if the deal is signed by the end this year, first lot of Rafale aircraft will arrive India by 2017. And by the time, IAF has to phase out its MiG 21 squadrons.

The air force is seeking to replace its ageing MiG-21s with a modern fighter and MMRCA fits between India's hig-end Sukhoi-30MKIs and its low-end Tejas LCA lightweight fighter. The IAF has a sanctioned strength of 45 fighter jet squadrons. However, it only has 30 squadrons operational as old aircraft have been retired.

Eighteen of the 126 planes will be purchased directly from Dassault, while Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will manufacture the other 108 under a licence, at an upcoming facility in Bangalore.


MoD mulls downsizing Rafale contract | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

 

[halloweene]

Talked with an executive yesterday nite. Pure BS. And as he mentioned, it would be stupid as there is a ramping up of indian input in every indian built Rafales so last ones will be near 100% indian made...

 

[Dazzler]

And as he mentioned, it would be stupid as there is a ramping up of indian input in every indian built Rafales so last ones will be near 100% indian made...

last part is wishful thinking at best.

 

[Gessler]

last part is wishful thinking at best.

Why is that.

 

[rockstarIN]

Why is that.

Coz he knew better than HAL, MoD and Dassault about MMRCA contract terms.

 

[Dazzler]

Coz he knew better than HAL, MoD and Dassault about MMRCA contract terms.

because i knkw french practices, if you think they are gonna transfer near 100 percent tech to HAL, dream on. even if they transfered 70 percent, HAL would be very lucky. lastly, engine tech transfer is next to impossible cuz western countries usually dont mess with engine tech transfer stuff. M88 is latest production version by snecma, they will not transfer enough tech tokeep HAL independant of themselves or other french contractors.

 

[greatone]

because i knkw french practices, if you think they are gonna transfer near 100 percent tech to HAL, dream on. even if they transfered 70 percent, HAL would be very lucky. lastly, engine tech transfer is next to impossible cuz western countries usually dont mess with engine tech transfer stuff. M88 is latest production version by snecma, they will not transfer enough tech tokeep HAL independant of themselves or other french contractors.

I don't think you really understand the meaning of Transfer of Technology Mr. Think Tank....

Getting ToT is like getting the final answer in a math problem e.g x= 12
Nobody transfers the process employed to get the final answer, every nation has to figure it out by itself.

ToT is used to prevent reliance on foriegn vendors in times of war.It is not a substitute for domestic R& D.

For example, India is manufacturing very high grade SCBs(single crystal blades) for MKI engine but is yet to master the same tech for indigenous Kaveri engine.

 

[Dazzler]

I don't think you really understand the meaning of Transfer of Technology Mr. Think Tank....

explain it plz..

 

[janon]

explain it plz..

Transfer of manufacturing technology. It means we could manufacture everything in house (by the end). It doesn't mean that HAL or GTRE would be in a position to develop world class engines of their own. Building it from raw material stage, that's all.