Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

I need a translator to understand you, sorry, I'm out.

Height of Patriotism

 

[kbd-raaf]

I need a translator to understand you, sorry, I'm out.

Could you explain to me 'combat ratio' is, as far as I know, you coined the phrase yourself?

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Could you explain to me 'combat ratio' is, as far as I know, you coined the phrase yourself?

I did not , its like how many active jets superior in combat capability ( Including generation ) are active against your enemies force , like in dog fights , etc 2:1 or 1:2 ,,, got it ???

 

[NKVD]

Since when were Mirage 2000-5s 'poor quality'? They're at par with the block 52 F-16s which are the most advanced that the PAF operate. We also operate way more of the 2000/5s than the PAF operate block 52s. We also operate the MiG-29 UPG, which are also at par if not superior to your latest F-16s.

Forgetting the 280 Su-30MKIs, which is the best the IAF operate which are mostly deployed to the Chinese border.

The PAF also operate the F-7 which is a Chinese MiG-21 copy.

The JF-17s are meant for point defense only and wont stand much of a chance of against IAF frontline fighters. They'll be used against MiG-27s and Jaguars on bombing runs whilst given top cover by the F-16s.

Mirage-2000-5 inferior to F-16 since when

 

[kbd-raaf]

I did not , its like how many active jets superior in combat capability ( Including generation ) are active against your enemies force , like in dog fights , etc 2:1 or 1:2 ,,, got it ???

Nope, still have no idea what you mean, can you write it in Hindi if you're more comfortable?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I remember that even INDIAN media claimed that IAF lost its edge over PAF , due to PAFs induction of new jets like F-16s and JF 17s which very rapidly increased the combat ratio of the PAF over IAF , IAF lost edge over PAF due to its inefficiency and poor quality like the migs and mirages ( The flying coffins ) which resulted in all time low combat ratio against PAF , Do u not acknowledge these facts ???? It looks like u have now confessed in your last line about the reality proving that I am making sense and m logical making claims on facts , Thank U

Pure nonsense. The PAF has no answer for the MKI which the IAF operates in larger numbers than all your F-16s combined. The Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s are both being significantly upgraded which alone would be able to give the PAF's F-16 Blk 52s a run for their money. The MiG-21 Bisons are a pretty good match for the Thunders.

The news you refer to is the IAF's traditional 3:1ratio falling to around 2 or less to 1 but this is merely a temporary situation, in qualitative terms that IAF still has a clear edge along with in quantity.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Pure nonsense. The PAF has no answer for the MKI which the IAF operates in larger numbers than all your F-16s combined. The Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s are both being significantly upgraded which alone would be able to give the PAF's F-16 Blk 52s a run for their money. The MiG-21 Bisons are a pretty good match for the Thunders.

The news you refer to is the IAF's traditional 3:1ratio falling to around 2 or less to 1 but this is merely a temporary situation, in qualitative terms that IAF still has a clear edge along with in quantity.

---
The MiG-21 Bisons are a pretty good match for the Thunders.?
can you elaborate ?
MIgs are still give run for money to jf17

 

[Agent_47]

I remember that even INDIAN media claimed that IAF lost its edge over PAF , due to PAFs induction of new jets like F-16s and JF 17s which very rapidly increased the combat ratio of the PAF over IAF , IAF lost edge over PAF due to its inefficiency and poor quality like the migs and mirages ( The flying coffins ) which resulted in all time low combat ratio against PAF , Do u not acknowledge these facts ????

Indian media can clam anything under the sun, they blah blah anything to get it sensationalize, they have the right to do so. Because it is a democracy. Unlike your country no one really cares what our military capability in our leadership.

Im not here to spoon fed you. Why don't you just search for a neutral source for the current status in quality and quantity.
yes, we are ill equipped for a two front war and we will make up for it by 2023 with fullfillment of 42 sqd.

in my opinion, for a small territory and tiny economy with an opponent who never attacked you first, you are well equipped.

 

[kaykay]

I remember that even INDIAN media claimed that IAF lost its edge over PAF , due to PAFs induction of new jets like F-16s and JF 17s which very rapidly increased the combat ratio of the PAF over IAF , IAF lost edge over PAF due to its inefficiency and poor quality like the migs and mirages ( The flying coffins ) which resulted in all time low combat ratio against PAF , Do u not acknowledge these facts ???? It looks like u have now confessed in your last line about the reality proving that I am making sense and m logical making claims on facts , Thank U

Get your facts right. Tell me how many 4th gen aircrafts PAF iinducted since 2000? 80 or 90 at best while at the same time IAF inducted around 200 MKIs while naval air arm inducted ~35 Mig-29Ks(if you count them though they are for naval missions).
Coming to crashes, you will be surprised that even PAF crash rate is similar to that of IAFs in recent years.

 

[Dazzler]

IAF sqdrns are dwindling = Fact

No major fighter induction since MKI = Fact

Rafale deal is still in limbo, atleast by year end = Fact


PAF has 50 jf-17, 76 F-16 (18 blk 52+mlu), some are yet to go through mlu though but process continues, around 150 4th gen fighters and counting, more jordanian mlus are likely to join as PAF is analysing more pieces there.

PAF crashes are still much less compared to IAF crashes, just check the crash thread for facts, IAF until recently crashing even MKIs and Mirage 2000s. PAF mirage is too old to operate apart of 80 odd Rose upgraded ones which have plenty of life left, kodus to sealed Libyan engines and spares.

Lastly, IAF does not have 200 MKIs in service, and please stop making a fuss on MKI, it is a BIG machine with everything big about but yet to be proven in the battlefield. Indians are proud on BARS radar, without knowing that a PESA, not matter how good it is, is not an AESA. BARS is a huge unit, the amount of radiation it throws when operating on full, even on average power, it is detectable from a long range.

Remember, radar, when working, radiates. Through internet and Russian sites, members and some retired personnel on f-16.net etc, give figures that it can detect fighter size (5sqm) at around 130-140km at best, so where is the advantage? There is none.

 

[Agent_47]

IAF sqdrns are dwindling = Fact

It stopped dwindling to 34sq =Fact
It will be increasing to its peek of 42 sqd by 2023 = Fact

No major fighter induction since MKI = Fact

Last decade IAF inducted 194 MKIs when PAF inducted inferior 50 jf-17 and 2 sqd of mlu f16s = Fact

Rafale deal is still in limbo, atleast by year end = Fact

It will by done by year end = Fact

PAF has 50 jf-17, 76 F-16 (18 blk 52+mlu), some are yet to go through mlu though but process continues

Mig29,M2K and jaguars are heavy getting upgrades = Fact

PAF crashes are still much less compared to IAF crashes, just check the crash thread for facts, IAF until recently crashing even MKIs and Mirage 2000s.

Mig 21 crashing problem is solved = Fact
crash happens on both sides = Fact

PAF mirage is too old to operate apart of 80 odd Rose upgraded ones which have plenty of life left, kodus to sealed Libyan engines and spares.

You call 1960 made airframe plenty of life left = fact

Lastly, IAF does not have 200 MKIs in service, and please stop making a fuss on MKI,

As of March 2013, the IAF had a fleet of 194 Su-30MKI aircraft but this number will grow to 272 after India placed another order in December 2012 for 42 aircraft
Defence News - India May Expand Su-30MKI Order Beyond 272

it is a BIG machine with everything big about but yet to be proven in the battlefield. Indians are proud on BARS radar, without knowing that a PESA, not matter how good it is, is not an AESA. BARS is a huge unit, the amount of radiation it throws when operating on full, even on average power, it is detectable from a long range.Remember, radar, when working, radiates. Through internet and Russian sites, members and some retired personnel on f-16.net etc, give figures that it can detect fighter size (5sqm) at around 130-140km at best, so where is the advantage? There is none.

You write plenty of self assumptions without credible sources just to cover how pissed are you of MKIs = fact
And you are a 'PDF Think Tank' = FACT

 

[trident2010]

For PAF, IAF will only need Mig-29 upg, Mirage 2000-5 upg and Bisons. Which are much superior in both quality and quantity what PAF boasts. MKI's will be overkill. Rest depends on how quickly India will want to finish the war.

 

[NKVD]

Pure nonsense. The PAF has no answer for the MKI which the IAF operates in larger numbers than all your F-16s combined. The Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s are both being significantly upgraded which alone would be able to give the PAF's F-16 Blk 52s a run for their money. The MiG-21 Bisons are a pretty good match for the Thunders.

The news you refer to is the IAF's traditional 3:1ratio falling to around 2 or less to 1 but this is merely a temporary situation, in qualitative terms that IAF still has a clear edge along with in quantity.

@sancho @Abingdonboy This thread is now become a troll Thread give some negative ratings to save this thread Indian members will get that even if not troll In JF-17 thread

 

[AMMAR Niaz Dawood]

Pure nonsense. The PAF has no answer for the MKI which the IAF operates in larger numbers than all your F-16s combined. The Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s are both being significantly upgraded which alone would be able to give the PAF's F-16 Blk 52s a run for their money. The MiG-21 Bisons are a pretty good match for the Thunders.

The news you refer to is the IAF's traditional 3:1ratio falling to around 2 or less to 1 but this is merely a temporary situation, in qualitative terms that IAF still has a clear edge along with in quantity.

I think now we are on the same page , AS your Last Two lines TRULY highlighted the REALITY , THAT 3:1 ratio was all that I was stressing on and I knew it that it was temporary and IAF is still heading pretty soon to overtake that RATIO .....Congratulations , TRUST me this was MEDIAs manipulation , I dont debate about something about which I dont know and this time I was misguided by the MEDIA , NO Offence

 

[Dazzler]

Pure nonsense. The PAF has no answer for the MKI which the IAF operates in larger numbers than all your F-16s combined. The Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s are both being significantly upgraded which alone would be able to give the PAF's F-16 Blk 52s a run for their money. The MiG-21 Bisons are a pretty good match for the Thunders.

The news you refer to is the IAF's traditional 3:1ratio falling to around 2 or less to 1 but this is merely a temporary situation, in qualitative terms that IAF still has a clear edge along with in quantity.

what qualitative terms are those where IAF has edge? which technology is in their possession tjat PAF lacks? explain..