Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Jon Snow]

TVC helps only at low speeds, untypical for combat. And when it comes to low speeds, nothing can overturn and escape from helmet guided AIM-9X.

No wonder that India chosed Rafale without TVC over MiG-35.

So according to you - the americans, russians, chinese are all bonkers to want TVC in their latest fighters ( f 22, pak fa, j 20 ). Also the iaf must be crazy as well as to want it on the rafale and su 30mki and amca and fgfa......

 

[Abingdonboy]

That point is not without logic. If the difference between the two planes was only on cost & a figure of $ 5 million was mentioned, one has to say that an argument could easily be made out based on the aid the U.K. gives. The aid to be given to India by the U.K is in the region of $2.2 billion (1.4 billion pounds) between 2011 & 2015. Divide that by 126 aircraft & it works out to over 17 million per aircraft; a figure far more substantial than the supposed difference of $5 million per aircraft. I assume that the MoD has its own calculations while selecting the aircraft & it might have factored in variables not revealed in public, especially on tech transfers but the British do have a right to ask why their aid money doesn't still get them any benefits especially since any order to the EF consortium would have seen the U.K. government essentially subsiding through its aid, the purchase of the Typhoons by an amount equaling or exceeding $2 billion.

Mate, this was a DEFENCE deal, if you started brining politics into it then a US ac should have won. But fortunately the MoD/GoI let the IAF select based on TECHNICAL success. But as you say the margin between the two per unit was, relatively, small so I'd say it wasn't the price but the "sweeteners" such as offsets, ToT, commonality with M2K, IAF preference, true multi role capability that IAF is looking for to fill a gap in its fleet and many other things we won't know about for a while that really swung it for the Rafele. Not to mention the French must have thrown everything they could at this deal so the deal was made pretty "sweet" whilst EADS maybe were a bit more reserved.

 

[500]

Rafale C offered to India might have TVC.

It wont.

AESA is confirmed

Of course, it was one of the main requirements of MMRCA. Its very possible that Rafale defeated Typhoon because its AESA is ready. TVC was not required on the other hand. Guess why.

 

[RPK]

World’s biggest French kiss


World’s biggest French kiss

- IAF picks Rafale for deal that can reshape Europe’s defence industry

New Delhi, Jan. 31: A flying French kiss is in the air.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has decided French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation’s Rafale fighter jet is best suited for it.

The Rafale bid was less than the price quoted by four-nation European consortium EADS Cassidian’s Eurofighter Typhoon.

In a race that has lasted five years and tantalised not only India’s military establishment but also first-world countries and half-a-dozen of the globe’s largest companies, the sleek twin-engined Rafale with its ergonomic looks has beaten the Typhoon. Both aircraft were last year seen in action over Libya.

This will be India’s costliest defence contract — totalling close to $20 billion (Rs 1 lakh crore) — and is currently the single largest international military aircraft deal in the world, big enough to inject millions of euros into France.

The Financial Times reported that the deal has “the potential to reshape the European defence industry at a time companies are suffering from cutbacks in their traditional developed markets”.

Not to be faulted for passion, President Nicolas Sarkozy with Carla Bruni kept up a persistent and intensive diplomatic engagement with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at both Rajpath and on the Champs Elysees. France’s refusal to impose sanctions on India after the 1998 nuclear tests and the Indian Air Force’s familiarity with the French-built Mirage 2000 aircraft would have shaped New Delhi’s choice.

Sarkozy, who lost no time in formally welcoming the developments although the final deal is yet to be sealed, is certain to flog the breakthrough as a coup, which should come in handy as he heads to elections. The conservative President is now trailing a socialist rival in opinion polls.

“The realisation of the Rafale project will illustrate the depth and scale of the strategic partnership between France and India,” the French embassy in New Delhi said.

For France and Rafale-maker Dassault Aviation, this is a huge boost because they have not been able to secure a single customer for the fighter plane apart from the Armee de ’air (the French air force).

The share price of Dassault Aviation — Sarkozy is said to be close to the industrial group that also owns the pro-government Le Figaro newspaper — jumped almost 20 per cent in Paris today after the Indian news broke.

Dassault Aviation said the company and its partners “are honoured and grateful to the government and the people of India….”

For the (IAF), there was also the desperation to replace its ageing fleet of MiG 21 fighter aircraft with jets capable of matching up to Chinese and Pakistani capabilities and also the price.

The Rafale will not come cheap. The cost has not been announced by the companies or the government. But an approximate figure can be gauged by a Swiss competition in which the Rafale lost to the Swedish Gripen aircraft two months back. France had offered to sell 18 Rafale aircraft for $2.9 billion or $162 million (or about Rs 800 crore) each.

But the IAF would be buying 126 aircraft and the economies of scale would bring the price down a couple of notches. India proposes to buy the aircraft over 10 years — 18 in ‘fly away’ condition over three years after the contract is signed and the rest to be assembled with Hindustan Aeronautics possibly at the defence firm’s Bangalore establishment.

When India sent out the request for proposals (or tender) to six firms in 2008, the cost of the deal was pegged at $10.4 billion (Rs 42,000 crore). The final figure could be close to twice that amount.

“Next fiscal,” defence minister A.K. Antony replied this morning, asked when a contract for the aircraft could be signed. Sources said later that the Rafale has emerged as “L1” — jargon for lowest bidder.

The India representatives of the two competing companies had been informed. Price negotiations leading to the signing of a contract would begin in the next 10 days.

“It is a long process. The file has not come to my table,” Antony said. The final contract would come only after the approval of the Cabinet Committee on Security headed by the Prime Minister.

The IAF has the option of ordering an additional 63 aircraft but that will be at a re-negotiated price.

The Typhoon and the Rafale were shortlisted after 643-point technical and flight evaluation tests by the IAF through 2009 and 2010.

They edged out four other competitors — the F-16 Super Viper (made by Lockheed Martin, US), the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet (Boeing, US), Saab’s Gripen (Swedish) and the Russian MiG 35 — to be shortlisted for the final leg.

The Eurofighter, built by companies from the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain — has now been beaten by the Rafale for the Indian order.

Endre Lunde, a consultant with IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly, described the deal as a “major win for France, and a major loss for the UK”.

 

[Jason bourne]

we will get meteor with rafale but can it be possible to put meteor in super sukhoi ? isnt it a deadly combo ?

 

[farhan_9909]

congrats to india for choosing such a great machine

Rafale is way better than EFT and a true multi role fighter.

 

[Black Widow]

It wont.


Of course, it was one of the main requirements of MMRCA. Its very possible that Rafale defeated Typhoon because its AESA is ready. TVC was not required on the other hand. Guess why.

I have great respect for you But today I may not agree with you. RAFAEL and EFT both were providing AESA by the time of delivery. AESA was operational on American fighter but they were not in final 2. So saying Rafael was chosen coz of its AESA is not full truth.

TVC: Maneuverability is good for Dog fighting, MMRCA tender was for omnirole platform with good ground strike capability. That's why TVC was not one of the criteria. Worlds leading Air superiority fighters (Except F15 (old design),EFT) have TVC. Almost 75% of 5th gen platform have TVC.

if TVC is useless ppl will not spend money in it. Some where you asked why F35 doesn't have TVC. Let me guess it. USA has already Airsuperiroty fighter with TVC (F22), They don't see wasting money again in F35 which they will use as MRCA (ground strike) role.

 

[IND151]

France's Dassault beats BAE Systems to clinch Indian government fighter jet contract - Telegraph

see the comments and frustration among brits
even they are discussing poverty like our neighbors

the discussions are mind blowing

any way are we going to buy 126 Rafales or 189?

 

[Abingdonboy]

the discussions are mind blowing

any way are we going to buy 126 Rafales or 189?

206 MMRCA I'd say was highly likely. But what is still ambiguous is the ramifications of Antony's remarks about the extra 80 potentially being one of the losing a/c.

 

[Hello_10]

And neither the investors are idiots as shares of Rafale also jumped yesterday like this, making it the aircraft industry with the highest return than any other arm industry right now. This is how Rafale will go high and high in future after winning this MMRCA.............


Now no one can stop Rafale, Ab Ise Koi Nahi Rok Sakta, 'Muskil Hi Nahi Namumkin Hai'

I was expecting few comments on this new Don in aircraft industries. The best Multi Role aircraft of the world, the best A2G role that none is close to it, and better for air superiority roles than SU27/ J11/ SU30k also, a big jump in its share yesterday making it the aircraft of highest return in any market, any idea where The Don is heading for?

 

[500]

So according to you - the americans, russians, chinese are all bonkers to want TVC in their latest fighters ( f 22, pak fa, j 20 ). Also the iaf must be crazy as well as to want it on the rafale and su 30mki and amca and fgfa......

I already explained why F-22 got 2-D TVC (because of flat stealthy nozzles). But if u check other new designs: Rafale, EFT, SH, F-2 - none has TVC. TVC was tested on F-15 but new mods of F-15 did not get it. F-35 - the most mass produced fighter of 21th century will not have TVC as well.

Even with TVC your aircraft pull out more than 9g, and it wont help u to espace from 360 grad launch 50+g missiles like MICA, AIM-9X, Python 5, IRIS-T...

if TVC is useless ppl will not spend money in it. Some where you asked why F35 doesn't have TVC. Let me guess it. USA has already Airsuperiroty fighter with TVC (F22), They don't see wasting money again in F35 which they will use as MRCA (ground strike) role.

Both Rafale and F-35 are multirole fighters. That means they should do dogfights as well. Actually multirole fighters are more prone to enter dogfights than air superriority fighters.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

Guys Wake Up......

Dassault Rafale came with many strings one must not forget.

Rafale Engine is powered by Snecma the same company that is helping in Kaveri Engine.
French Scorpène class submarines builders DCNS with Help in ATV programs with MESMA system
French shipbuilder DCNS will help in IAC 1 and 2 with CATOBAR technology and steam catapult
Dassault will help with AESA radar for LCA

Not to forget French were awarded with Nuclear contracts

 

[SQ8]

And neither the investors are idiots as shares of Rafale also jumped yesterday like this, making it the aircraft industry with the highest return than any other arm industry right now. This is how Rafale will go high and high in future after winning this MMRCA.............


Now no one can stop Rafale, Ab Ise Koi Nahi Rok Sakta, 'Muskil Hi Nahi Namumkin Hai'

I should give you an infraction for insulting the rafale like that.
SRK is like the F-35.. all pomp and nothing to show..
No aircraft should be equated with a living personality.. its an insult to engineering.

 

[ptltejas]

I think its possible to add TVC nozzle to rafale engine.

 

[The enlightened]

I say we also join the nEUROn project along with Rafale. Who else????