Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[KRAIT]

According to firm source, China had launched the procedure of exporting a squadron of J-10B with enhanced avionics , PESA radar and advanced IRST to PAF at cost of 42millions USD per unit, which the number will finally arrived at 150.

If i am not wrong China offered 50 J-10B to PAF, your source seems correct.

 

[Bang Galore]

This aid was especially given so that EF can have an advantage over rafale, but looks like we hurt somebody there

Nothing to laugh about. I for one am grateful for every bit of aid that comes our way. That aid helps those countrymen & women of ours who are not as lucky & blessed as you & I. One must never be ungrateful (& your scoffing comes pretty close) for any help regardless of whatever decisions are taken. The Brits are not our enemies (nor indeed the Germans) & one must be gracious in allowing them to let off steam. They have a reasonable grouse about the aid they give to India (especially during these times) not getting them anything in return & we must both understand & maintain a certain amount of perspective. The Rafale is the winner & there is no reason anymore to belittle anyone else. Not anymore.

 

[Birbal]

Initially 18 will arrive directly from france in a fly away condition. The remaining would be manufactured in India, probably at HAL, Bangalore. The initial batch would come by 2013, if not earlier.

France's Dassault beats BAE Systems to clinch Indian government fighter jet contract - Telegraph

Brits are moaning as usual.

It should be obvious to the Brits why they lost the bid, and it has nothing to do with foreign aid. It's because of a failed diplomatic mission by a certain Jeremy Clarkson...

 

[KRAIT]

Some say 2013, others say 2015, whats the correct time of delivery if Rafale signs the deal ?

 

[帅的一匹]

If i am not wrong China offered 50 J-10B to PAF, your source seems correct.

There is small modification from protopype 1 to prototype 5 seen on the picture.

 

[Hello_10]

That point is not without logic. If the difference between the two planes was only on cost & a figure of $ 5 million was mentioned, one has to say that an argument could easily be made out based on the aid the U.K. gives. The aid to be given to India by the U.K is in the region of $2.2 billion (1.4 billion pounds) between 2011 & 2015. Divide that by 126 aircraft & it works out to over 17 million per aircraft; a figure far more substantial than the supposed difference of $5 million per aircraft. I assume that the MoD has its own calculations while selecting the aircraft & it might have factored in variables not revealed in public, especially on tech transfers but the British do have a right to ask why their aid money doesn't still get them any benefits especially since any order to the EF consortium would have seen the U.K. government essentially subsiding through its aid, the purchase of the Typhoons by an amount equaling or exceeding $2 billion.

let me help you in this field

Poor Little Rich Country

BY PATRICK FRENCH | JUNE 24, 2011

In May, the Indian government announced that it was giving $5 billion in aid to African countries in the interest of helping them meet their development goals. "We do not have all the answers," Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said, "but we have some experience in nation-building, which we are happy to share."

The British could be forgiven for being annoyed with Singh's largesse. Britain, after all, currently gives more than $450 million a year in aid to India, and has plans to continue doing so for at least the next few years. The British economy is bumping in and out of a recession, while India's gross domestic product is growing at more than 8 percent a year. This has put the British government in the rather bizarre position of having to sell bonds in order to donate money to Asia's second-fastest-growing economy, even as the latter is itself getting into the philanthropy business.

In 1951, the American diplomat Bill Bullitt described the condition of India in Life magazine: "An immense country containing 357 million people," he wrote, "with enormous natural resources and superb fighting men, India can neither feed herself nor defend herself against serious attacks. An inhabitant of India lives, on average, 27 years. His annual income is about $50. About 90 out of 100 Indians cannot read or write. They exist in squalor and fear of famine." Today, it would be hard to make such an absolute statement about India. Poverty certainly remains a chronic problem, but it exists alongside pockets of substantial wealth. An Indian's life expectancy at birth now stands at 67 years, and continues to rise. It is necessary perhaps to think in a different way, and to see that a country like India, like Schrödinger's cat, exists in at least two forms simultaneously: rich and poor.

Poor Little Rich Country - By Patrick French | Foreign Policy

(also I hope you remember our talk on "How British Destroyed India" when I compared India with Britian from 1st to 15th, 16th and 17th , you may read all that again
http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...ow-british-destroyed-india-7.html#post2366841

http://www.localhistories.org/povhist.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP) )

 

[peep]

Some say 2013, others say 2015, whats the correct time of delivery if Rafale signs the deal ?

It will be 2015 and from 2017 the rafales will start coming out of HAL production lines !!

 

[KRAIT]

Its MRCA discussion, don't bring old news. These aids are given as diplomatic measures. Same way we gave $ 2 billion to afghanistan, build roads etc. to way a foothold and gain people's trust, as we have gained 3 out of 4 iron ore mines . US is in huge debt still it is spending so much on WOT.

 

[jackyy]

why not bring 2 squad from france directly??it will speed up the induction and help against china

 

[帅的一匹]

why not bring 2 squad from france directly??it will speed up the induction and help against china

Direct Fly away increases cost. Will the first squad Rafle be allocated to China-India border infantry?

 

[Hello_10]

Its MRCA discussion, don't bring old news. These aids are given as diplomatic measures. Same way we gave $ 2 billion to afghanistan, build roads etc. to way a foothold and gain people's trust, as we have gained 3 out of 4 iron ore mines . US is in huge debt still it is spending so much on WOT.

...

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Friday outlined a slew of measures to assist in Afghanistan's reconstruction efforts, a day after committing an additional USD 500 million for various developmental projects in the war-torn nation that would take the total Indian aid to USD 2 billion.

Indian commitment to Afghanistan touches USD 2 billion: PM - Hindustan Times

 

[KRAIT]

Direct Fly away increases cost. Will the first squad Rafle be allocated to China-India border infantry?

Yeah, to the eastern front.

 

[Hello_10]

Nothing to laugh about. I for one am grateful for every bit of aid that comes our way. That aid helps those countrymen & women of ours who are not as lucky & blessed as you & I. One must never be ungrateful (& your scoffing comes pretty close) for any help regardless of whatever decisions are taken. The Brits are not our enemies (nor indeed the Germans) & one must be gracious in allowing them to let off steam. They have a reasonable grouse about the aid they give to India (especially during these times) not getting them anything in return & we must both understand & maintain a certain amount of perspective. The Rafale is the winner & there is no reason anymore to belittle anyone else. Not anymore.

let me help you here also. Indians aren't giving anything to British but, who said India doesn't have beggars? have a look as below, India has both Indian and British beggars

David Cameron delivers address at Infosys Bangalore: Full Text

Bangalore: British prime minister David Cameron arrived amid tight security in Bangalore on Tuesday night to kick-start his three-day India visit.

Cameron, after meeting Karnataka governor HR Bhardwaj on Wednesday morning, headed to Infosys' Electronic City campus where he delivered an address and met Indian industry captains and Infoscians.

Here is the full text of the British Prime Minister's speech.

It is a great honour to be invited here today.

If Bangalore is the city that symbolises India's reawakening, Infosys has good claim to be the company. There's an energy and passion about this place that I have to say is awe-inspiring.

This is my third visit to your country. I came once before I was a politician. I came once when I was Leader of the Opposition. I now return as Prime Minister of Britain.

And it is a great privilege to extend to you - and through you to the people of India - the hand of friendship from all the British people.


NEW RELATIONSHIP

I'm a new Prime Minister. I lead a new coalition government. And we're making a new start for Britain and its relationships around the world.

There are partnerships we want to create, friendships we want to elevate, dialogues we want to extend.

So I come here with a very clear purpose: to show what this new start means for our two countries.

I want to take the relationship between India and Britain to the next level. I want to make it stronger, wider and deeper.

To show how serious I am, I have brought with me the biggest visiting delegation of any British Prime Minister in recent memory.

Members of my Cabinet. Our most dynamic business leaders. Leaders of industry. Social entrepreneurs. Civic leaders. Figures from our most forward-looking arts institutions. Pioneers of community activism.

And today, I want to make the case for this relationship. I want to explain why India is so important to Britain's future. I want to tell Indians watching what Britain has to offer them. And I want to set out the common challenges we must meet together in the years ahead.

I do all this knowing this country has the whole world beating a path to its door. I understand that Britain cannot rely on sentiment and shared history for a place in India's future.

And I hope that today, and throughout this visit, you will see the strength of my commitment and the scale of my ambition for this new relationship.


WHY INDIA?

So why is your country important for Britain's future? The most obvious reason is economic.

There is still a development road to travel but thanks to the reform process begun by Manmohan Singh in the 1990s, the Indian tiger has been uncaged and its power can be felt around the world.

You feel it in the fantastic new airports in Bangalore and Hyderabad, in Mumbai's Bandra-Worla Sea Link, in the Delhi metro and in Delhi's stunning new airport terminal.

And we can feel that power back home too.

The Tata Group is now the largest manufacturing employer in Britain. And more than 180 Indian companies have invested in our IT sector.

At the same time, India represents an enormous opportunity for British companies. Already our trade relationship is worth £11.5 billion a year. But I want us to go further.

India plans to invest over $500bn in infrastructure in the coming years. That is of course good for Indian business, but it is also a chance for British companies to generate growth. Your retail market is growing by 25 per cent annually, and there is no reason why British companies should not be a part of that too.

India is adding 15 million new mobile phone users every month. British companies can play an even greater role in that, providing services to the Indian consumer and creating jobs in India and back in the UK.

So I want this to be a relationship which drives economic growth upwards, and drives our unemployment figures downwards.

This is a trade mission, yes, but I prefer to see it as my jobs mission.

Indian companies employ 90,000 people in the UK. Many more jobs in Britain exist thanks to the activities of British companies in India. Now I want to see thousands more jobs created in Britain, and of course in India through trade in the months and years ahead. That is the core purpose of my visit."

David Cameron delivers address at Infosys Bangalore: Full Text

 

[500]

Um I'd have to disagree with you there. It is an extremely useful feature that offers exceptional manoeuvrabiltity so a plane can break lock and in close WVR dog- fights give an added advantage to help out turn/out manoeuvre the oposesing ac. Not to mention on some ac it makes the engines more fuel efficient.

TVC helps only at low speeds, untypical for combat. And when it comes to low speeds, nothing can overturn and escape from helmet guided AIM-9X.

No wonder that India chosed Rafale without TVC over MiG-35.

 

[KRAIT]

TVC helps only at low speeds, untypical for combat. And when it comes to low speeds, nothing can overturn and escape from helmet guided AIM-9X.

No wonder that India chosed Rafale without TVC over MiG-35.

Rafale C offered to India might have TVC, AESA is confirmed, and higher thrust engine is also probable.