Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[LCA]

^^^ true.. not even china is using jf-17 as their main fighter but su-mkks and other russian fighters.

Exactly ... chinese are going for J-10 series of fighter.

i don't why PAF going for JF in such a huge number....,they should invest more their resources in their J-10 venture with china.

 

[Jako]

Exactly ... chinese are going for J-10 series of fighter.

i don't why PAF going for JF in such a huge number....,they should invest more their resources in their J-10 venture with china.

you say this,and the next thing you would hear is ,we have a blk 2 coming with some alien technology........agree with you lca,they should have saved their money to induct huge nmbrs of j10 not jf17....thnx

 

[sob]

FC 1 does not fit in the plans for the Chinese PLAAF, so they are not going to induct it any time soon despite the pressure to place order, so as to keep the unit cost low.

Plus we have had discussions about JF 17 being fitted with European engine, well the only thing I can say that it is going to be a long process.
Changing the engine will not be an easy job for various reasons, size, shifting of CG, modifications required for a smaller lot size and also the European manufacturer would not want the Chinese to get info about the engine.

 

[MZUBAIR]

you say this,and the next thing you would hear is ,we have a blk 2 coming with some alien technology........agree with you lca,they should have saved their money to induct huge nmbrs of j10 not jf17....thnx

Jako and LCA,

Thats what I want to tell you people,
Y PAF is wasting their money on JF-17?
Coz they know about the JF-17 more then all of us over these forums.

JF-17 is differnt sort of fighter then Su-30 but it never means that it cant compete or counter Su-30.

Next year you will find more dangerous JF-17 of Block "B". Which will surely be challange for SU-30. I have already provided refences above.

China will also buy JF-17 Block "B" in 2010/11 but they will not buy too much as J-10 will be their front bird.

J-10 "B" engine will be used in JF-17 Block "B".
There would be many similar technologies in both jets.
But J-10 is superior, but it never means that J-10 will only be able to compete Mki. Dont forget JF-17 is made counter indian jets as the alternative of F-16

 

[sancho]

Pakistan is working on a plan and according to the plan heavy serial production have been in operation since Feb 09 and by Oct 09 we will prepare 1st Peshawar Sqd with Thunder bird.
Pakistan will produce atleast 50 birds this year which will take up to total 50+.

Doubtful, but wait and see.

Yes there is a thread of JF 17 vs Mki, but Indian friends dont want to hear that JF-17 can compete Mki. Remember my Indian friend never under estimated ur enemy. Pakistan always look to counter India.So atleast understand this thing that we are working only to counter india. If u think that Jf-17 is not of that worth then y paksitan is wasting their money and time on the project. So think wts in reality, dont go only web links....and remember every thing is not available on Internet...its just a partial info or may be not a single info.

We will never let u go up.

I never said that it is not worth it, or that I underestimate it. In fact I believe that it is better then our LCA at the moment, but to compete anything above is just a dream!
You have to admit that cause, if JF 17 could compete Mki why would PAF need J10 and F16 block 52 then? These fighters are better than JF 17 and would be a far better match.
Like I said before, the only fact where Mki is inferior to JF 17 is RCS. Everywhere else (BVR combats longer range radar and missile, WVR combats better t/w ratio, more maneuverability, more fuel so more range, more weapons, higher payload...) the Mki is way way superior. JF 17 might be a good match to counter anything we have below the Mki at the moment, but that's why IAF is modernising (upg Mig 29, maybe upg Mirage 2k, LCA, MMRCA).
To be honest with you and without offending! I think the fact that you only look at us and try to counter everything we have, is the main problem for Pakistan. Imo it would be far better for your country to look at all the terrorists and especially to improve your economy, than try to compete us, because in the present situation you simply can't.

 

[Jako]

But for a new engine in the blk B dont you need to modify the airframe.......for which next year induction seems farfetched.......THE COMBAT CAPABILITY OF THE PRESENT JF17 IS UNDERSTABLE WITH ALREADY TALKS OF BLK 2 ,WITH NOT EVEN A WHOLE SQUADRON IN OPERATION........

 

[Screaming Skull]

Interesting news! This will definitely have a bearing on the outcome of the MMRCA contest and also LCA powerplant selection!

Boeing's Super Hornet seeks export sale to launch 20% thrust upgrade​

12/05/09

Boeing is seeking an international launch customer for a 20% higher thrust version of the General Electric F414 turbofan that powers the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

The F414 enhanced performance engine (EPE) includes an all new core and forward fan to dramatically increase the fighter's takeoff performance, said Bob Gower, Boeing vice president for F/A-18E/F.

The improvements would increase the F414 thrust rating from 22,000lbs to 26,600lbs. The baseline F414-GE-400, which also powers the Saab Gripen demonstration aircraft, is itself a 35% higher thrust version of the F404 and entered service with the Super Hornet fleet in 1998.

More recently, the US Navy, Boeing and GE have been developing durability improvements to reduce foreign object damage and specific fuel consumption, Gower told reporters participating in a Boeing media tour.

While the USN seeks a new engine core to make the F414 more durable, some international customers are interested in a new engine fan that enables higher thrust, Gower said.

"The 'enhanced durability engine' becomes the 'enhanced performance engine' when you put the fan on it," Gower said.

Although the core enhancements are already under contract with the USN, the programme is seeking an export customer to launch development of the F414 EPE, Gower said.

The international order would lead to follow-on sales for the USN, which would gradually replace its current inventory with the improved version, Gower said.

Several countries, including India, Brazil, Denmark, Greece and Kuwait, are considering the F/A-18E/F, with the Royal Australian Air Force already signed on as the first export customer. The RAAF has ordered 24 F/A-18E/Fs, including 12 provisioned to become EA-18G Growlers.

The improved thrust would likely be most welcomed among militaries operating in hot weather, which reduces engine performance especially at a takeoff.

Despite the dramatic thrust increase, the EPE would not require enlarging the F/A-18E/F's engine inlets to enable increased air flow, Gower said.

"We are not modifying the mould line of the aircraft," Gower said. "The current inlet gives us enough [air] in-take."

Gower also said the EPE would require changing the number of compressor stages, but he did not elaborate.

The USN is also planning to steadily improve the F/A-18E/Fs sensors, electronic warfare system, connectivity and weapons load-out over the next decade, Gower said.

"The US government and Boeing and our suppliers," said Gower, "continue to invest in the platform because we see opportunities both domestically and internationally for the platform."

Boeing's Super Hornet seeks export sale to launch 20% thrust upgrade

 

[Screaming Skull]

Optimism Reigns Over Rafale's Export Prospects​

5/13/2009

“We are very optimistic for exporting the Rafale,” said Gérard Christmann, general manager business line of Thales' aerospace division. He reckoned that the Rafale “is now a mature aircraft” (which you'll be able to read about in the June issue of DTI) and that there was now a “big gap in the performance of the Mirage 2000 and the Rafale whose open architecture will permit a lot of improvements in the future.”

Christmann reminded the 20 or so aerospace reporters attending a two-day Thales pre-Paris airshow briefing, that we “must keep in mind that Rafale is a new aircraft. It was first delivered to the French airforce in 2006 and if you look at the export history of the Mirage 2000 you will see that the export contracts were won 15 years or so after it was first delivered to the French airforce.”

He said the Rafale was in good position in the official fighter competitions in Switzerland, Brazil and India ... yes, that's right India. Reports last month that the French fighter had been kicked out of the competition turned out to be evil untruths put about by, who knows who, with Thales officials (not Christmann) saying mysteriously that the so-called news had been leaked during the Brazilian airshow and that this was significant. The reporters are still trying to figure out why.

Ares Homepage

 

[Screaming Skull]

Rafale Still Chasing Indian Fighter Deal​

May 13, 2009

By Robert Wall
Paris

The Rafale strike fighter industrial team says it remains in the Indian fighter competition even though an Indian defense official has said it was kicked out.

“We are still preparing, actively, technology demonstrations for later this year and early next year,” says Jean-Noel Stock, who leads Rafale efforts at Thales, which is responsible for around a third of the weapons system. He stresses that Rafale is still in competition for the 126 fighter deal.

​

Meanwhile, Thales, Rafale prime contractor Dassault and engine supplier Snecma are preparing to submit a best-and-final offer to Brazil for its 36 fighters program. An updated initial offer was made a few weeks ago, Stock says. The offer, which has to spell out offset plans, is due June 8, according to the executive.

In February, the Rafale team hosted 55 Brazilian companies to help find industrial partners to meet technology transfer demands. Stock says the French government has okayed Thales sharing source code with partners.

Brazil, India and Switzerland - where Rafale also is competing - would receive the Thales active electronically scanned array radar. A demonstration version recently concluded flight trials. The first production-representative AESA is due for delivery to Dassault in mid-2010, before the aircraft would go to the French air force in 2011.

Two of the prototypes are being built, says Jean-Marc Goujon, who oversees Thales product policy for surveillance and combat systems.

By year’s end, the company expects the first full-production contract for the AESA in France as part of that government’s purchase of the next batch of fighters. Around 60 fighters are being bought. The radar would also be retrofitted on current aircraft.

Rafale Still Chasing Indian Fighter Deal | AVIATION WEEK

 

[Screaming Skull]

French bid to re-enter race for combat aircraft​

Friday, May 15, 2009

NEW DELHI: Making a strong bid to push its fighter plane, Rafale, back in contention for the 126 Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft India seeks to acquire, a high-level delegation from France will meet officials in the Defence Ministry on Friday.

Led by Jacques Lajugi, Head of France’s Air International Development, the delegation will call on Defence Secretary Vijay Singh to explore the possibility of re-entering the race of five other manufacturers from the United States, Sweden, Russia and Europe, sources in the Ministry said.

Among the six manufacturers that had responded to India’s Request for Proposal, sources said that Rafale had been eliminated from the race as it failed in the technical evaluations.

However, it is now understood that the report of the committee is yet to be perused by the Defence Procurement Board.

The committee report making such a recommendation was based on the response of the French company Dassault, which makes Rafale. The sources said the questions largely related to equipment and other add-ons that the user wanted to have, but not provided by the manufacturer.

The sources said that since the recommendation of the evaluation committee was made, the French manufacturer has provided necessary information that the Indian Air Force had sought.

The Hindu : National : French bid to re-enter race for combat aircraft

 

[Screaming Skull]

^^India adopting coercive diplomacy tactics again? Expect Mirage-2k upgrades in return for any favors from India.

 

[sancho]

^^India adopting coercive diplomacy tactics again? Expect Mirage-2k upgrades in return for any favors from India.

Not sure if they really want the upgrade, cause it would be only for 40 - 50 jets. Would be much better and easier to replace them with MMRCA winner too, more same types, more commonality.

 

[godsavetheworld]

Dassault back in contention for IAF's $11bn MMRCA tender


New Delhi: French aerospace and defence major Dassault is back in contention for the Indian Air Force's 126 medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender with its fighter offering, the Rafale. Reports suggest that a high-level delegation from France will meet officials in the defence ministry on Friday to offer technical clarifications sought for by the IAF with respect to the tender.

Earlier, reports had suggested that the Rafale had been booted out of the race for the massive $11 billion tender as it failed to provide necessary technical information as required by the Request for Proposal (RFP).

The French delegation, to be led by Jacques Lajugi, head of France's Air International Development, will call on defence secretary Vijay Singh.

Currently defence contractors from the United States, Russia, Sweden and a pan-European Eurofighter consortium have submitted bids for the IAF contract. The companies involved are the Russian MiG RAC, American Boeing and Lockheed Martin corporations, the Swedish Saab and the EADS-led Eurofighter consortium. Rafale was Dassaults' contender in the race.

Reports emanating a month or so back suggested that the technical evaluation committee had ousted Dassault as it apparently failed to provide necessary information as required under the provisions of the RFP. This was denied by the company.

Indian authorities may also have been peeved by the lackadaisical attitude displayed by the French. Unlike other manufacturers it is the only one that has failed to bring down its aircraft to India for display or first-hand introduction to IAF fliers even once.

At the two AeroIndia Yelahanka shows, hosted in 2007 and 2009, all contending aircraft, such as the MiG-35, Boeing F-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16, Saab Gripen JAS-39 and the Eurofighter Typhoon made an appearance and allowed IAF fliers to familiarise themselves with their offerings. The only missing contender was Dassault and its Rafale.

''We are still preparing, actively, technology demonstrations for later this year and early next year,'' said Jean-Noel Stock, Thales's head of the Rafale programme. Thales is responsible for around a third of the weapons system onboard the Rafale.

However, reports now suggest that Dassault may have been provided the escape route it seeks as the report of the committee recommending its disqualification is yet to be perused by the Defence Procurement Board.

The committee report apparently points out that questions related to equipment and other add-ons that the IAF wants remained unanswered by the manufacturer. This discrepancy, apparently, has now been taken care of by the manufacturer.

domain-b.com : Dassault back in contention for IAF's $11bn MMRCA tender

 

[Machoman]

Dude when you guys going to buy these damn planes? I been hearing these for so many years,

 

[BaburCM]

^^ It's a bad joke...