Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[ptltejas]

i dont know when this baby will come out of stomach

8 mahine ho gaye koi 1 mahina rah dekhne ke liye tyiar nahi. bus sijerian karwana chahte he.

 

[SpArK]

@Sancho the Brazilian airforce wanted the Gripen not the Rafale it was their 1st choice but due to pressure + the the deal struck with France for help on their N sub they were compelled to go for Rafale. At the moment that tender is still up in the air and the F18 is back in the race the last I heard.



Like i said before nobody wants the Rafale when you can have the EF it is 2nd best and always will be end of matter.


Also the Swiss can't even afford the rafale how they going to pay for EF? they cancelled the whole tender process and will start for new budget year

Europe is going for F-35s and India should take EFT which has no future and with a high price tag?

Tranche 3 is in shackles unless they milk the money from India. On the other hand Rafale will serve France for a longer time and there is immense scope for it to transform into 5th GEN in future.

 

[Kadamba]

Bids open for fighter aircraft, likely to be a political call - Indian Express
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India’s largest international defence contract to purchase a new fleet of fighter aircraft is heading for a political decision after commercial bids of the two final contenders — Dassault’s Rafale and EADS’s Eurofighter — were opened amidst high secrecy at the Defence Ministry on Friday evening.
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While the French Rafale came out to be slightly cheaper than the European Consortium’s Eurofighter in terms of ‘fly away cost’ per unit, as expected, the difference was less than 5 per cent. This throws the competition open.
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A final call on the winner will of course be made by the Cabinet Committee on Security, that will have the discretion of taking political, strategic and financial considerations into account.

That means technical and financial parameters are done with and have failed to decide the winner and only political one is left ? or It is also done as told by Subramanian swamy ?

 

[Paan Singh]

Europe is going for F-35s and India should take EFT which has no future and with a high price tag?

Tranche 3 is in shackles unless they milk the money from India. On the other hand Rafale will serve France for a longer time and there is immense scope for it to transform into 5th GEN in future.

bahut bada cheque mila hai aapko rafale sey

 

[Paan Singh]

Bids open for fighter aircraft, likely to be a political call - Indian Express
------
India’s largest international defence contract to purchase a new fleet of fighter aircraft is heading for a political decision after commercial bids of the two final contenders — Dassault’s Rafale and EADS’s Eurofighter — were opened amidst high secrecy at the Defence Ministry on Friday evening.
-------
While the French Rafale came out to be slightly cheaper than the European Consortium’s Eurofighter in terms of ‘fly away cost’ per unit, as expected, the difference was less than 5 per cent. This throws the competition open.
-------
A final call on the winner will of course be made by the Cabinet Committee on Security, that will have the discretion of taking political, strategic and financial considerations into account.

That means technical and financial parameters are done with and have failed to decide the winner and only political one is left ? or It is also done as told by Subramanian swamy ?

if swamy is right then its gonna be rafale too..if not then again will be rafale

 

[Vimana]

Europe is going for F-35s and India should take EFT which has no future and with a high price tag?

Tranche 3 is in shackles unless they milk the money from India. On the other hand Rafale will serve France for a longer time and there is immense scope for it to transform into 5th GEN in future.

What do you mean by future? the 300th Eurofighter Typhoon was delivered to Italy just recent. How many Rafales does France have? 180 ordered, 93 delivered as of December 2010 so how can you say EF has no future?


Let's not forget the Japan tender and the Saudis will order more in future.


Yes Europe its broke and needs funds but that only means they will be more despo to win and give more in terms of tech transfer, BAE have a partnership with Mahindra Defence Systems as it is and have setup a r&d hub in India as well.

 

[ramu]

If Rafale is not significantly cheaper than the Euro Fighter then India should go for the Euro Fighter. The Euro fighter brings with it the technology and expertise of many countries and between them it would be easier to get the best ToT. Also Euro Fighter (if you move beyond looks) is a much better fighter and for a layman is a better fighter by merely comparing the numbers.

 

[SpArK]

What do you mean by future? the 300th Eurofighter Typhoon was delivered to Italy just recent. How many Rafales does France have? 180 ordered, 93 delivered as of December 2010 so how can you say EF has no future?


Let's not forget the Japan tender and the Saudis will order more in future.


Yes Europe its broke and needs funds but that only means they will be more despo to win and give more in terms of tech transfer, BAE have a partnership with Mahindra Defence Systems as it is and have setup a r&d hub in India as well.

Commitment orders. They wont further develop it for their own purchases.

All the countries involved have cut down their orders and have opted for F-35.

Japan is done and the order is for US. Saudi well they even buy if F-22 is available.

Comparing France is not good as the orders are for single country. Their production facility is having a decent pace and since its already in a "developed" state any further advancements are given bonuses.

 

[Kadamba]

An old article but relevant but worth notice in case politics is the crucial factor in deciding the winner.

Typhoon blew off US fighter

The Eurofighter Typhoon has emerged as the number one aircraft, ahead of Dassault's Rafale, in a Ministry of Defence evaluation for the $10 billion MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) contract. But a decision between the two will be taken after a final evaluation. According to sources, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet was placed third, Saab's Gripen fourth, Lockheed Martin's F-16 fifth and the Russian Mig 35 sixth.

F/A-18 lost out to its European counterparts because it was inadequate to meet India's needs. It did not perform well at the trials, especially in Ladakh's Leh where its engines refused to start, say sources. F/A-18 was also perceived to be too heavy and so lacking in speed and manoeuvrability. It is a 30-year-old aircraft with technology dating back to the 1980s.

The Eurofighter Typhoon was perceived to have several advantages over its competitors, especially over the aircraft on offer from the United States. It is the only fourth generation MMRCA in the world. It has better air to air, and air to ground capabilities that can be carried out simultaneously. As the Typhoon is a new fighter aircraft the potential for growth and upgrade is huge, lasting between 40-50 years. The Typhoon has a large supply base available, as it is in service with many Air Forces, such as, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Spain and also Saudi Arabia. The Typhoon is also offering weapons packages that include the lethal Meteor missile, which is a radar guided beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile. New technologies also mean low lifecycle cost. The cost of ownership is also low.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is a collaborative effort by Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK and will not come saddled with the intrusive end user monitoring agreement and the end user verification agreement that all US aircraft will be burdened with. These US Congress-mandated monitoring agreements demand that client states give the US the right to access and inspect the materiel bought from that country. Transfer of high-level technology will also be easier with the European aircraft than the US F-18/A.

During a recent meeting in Paris, sources in the French aircraft industry had said that their Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon were the two best aircraft on offer. The Gripen manufactured by Saab was dismissed as too small and lacking in power. Rafale was described as an "omni-role aircraft with low penetration." The French perceived the F-16 as an old aircraft. The MoD here was not keen on the F-16 primarily because Pakistan already has that.

According to a source, "Russia was never really in the game as the IAF wanted a non Russian platform and the Mig 35 was far from ready, only in a developmental stage. Gripen and the F-16 were also ruled out as the IAF wanted a twin engine aircraft and in the case of the F-16 the fact that Pakistan has it, precluded it from serious consideration."

The French were, however, wary of US President Barack Obama's capacity to influence India's decision. "It's difficult to say who'll get the MMRCA contract, but Eurofighter Typhoon is our main competitor," a source said.

The decision in favour of the Typhoon and Rafale was swung by the IAF, which conducted what sources described as "an immaculate selection process". Defence Minister A.K. Antony was also clear that merit would be the only factor that would decide the selection. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh too could not exert himself on a resolute defence minister as that would have laid him bare to another charge of cozying up to the US.

But the United States is unlikely to give up easily. Sources say that lobbying on behalf of the US has already started, with some senior journalists involved in the process. There are fears within defence circles that pressure will be applied on the MoD to either give the contract to F-18/A or to cancel the contract altogether. There are also fears that the US will make it difficult for both Eurofighter and Rafale, whoever wins the contract, to transfer any American technology they might be having. The US might also try to arm-twist India by threatening to put Indian companies back on the entities list.

Meanwhile, Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy has sent a letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh alleging that there was a "pre-determined decision to favour the French aircraft" and this was an "outcome of several conversations between the wife of French President Ms. Carla Bruni and the Chairperson of the National Advisory Council Ms. Sonia Gandhi, and surprisingly also with two foreign nationals who are the sisters of Ms. Sonia Gandhi".

Swamy, alleged in his letter, that "based on some credible information" given to him on the "conversation" between Carla Bruni and Sonia Gandhi's sisters, "there has been an agreement of the French to pay a hefty bribe for favouring the purchase of French aircrafts".


Typhoon blew off US fighter

 

[Paan Singh]

wtf????????????????

Clearly, it's also a time ripe for reading into everything. The Pioneer newspaper suggests that a meeting between the Indian Prime Minister and French President in Cannes on the sidelines of the ongoing G20 summit, inexplicably cancelled at the last minute, suggested that France had lost the competition.

Livefist

 

[Paan Singh]

Clearly, it's also a time ripe for reading into everything. The Pioneer newspaper suggests that a meeting between the Indian Prime Minister and French President in Cannes on the sidelines of the ongoing G20 summit, inexplicably cancelled at the last minute, suggested that France had lost the competition.

Livefist

 

[Vimana]

Commitment orders. They wont further develop it for their own purchases.

All the countries involved have cut down their orders and have opted for F-35.

Japan is done and the order is for US. Saudi well they even buy if F-22 is available.

Comparing France is not good as the orders are for single country. Their production facility is having a decent pace and since its already in a "developed" state any further advancements are given bonuses.

Yes they cut their orders due to the economic situation which they find themselves in which makes them even more desperate. It is a myth there is no further development funded for the EF just look at this baby for one:


http://www.eurofighter.com/capabilities/technology/cockpit/helmet-ounted-smbology-ystem.html



"The plan is to, over the next eight to 10 years, take a phased approach to enhancing the Typhoon's capability," says Rob Wells, Eurofighter's export future business manager. "It is the exports that are driving these enhancements."

Eurofighter unveiled the plans, which include optional conformal fuel tanks, at IDEX 2011. Other enhancements include the option of MBDA's Meteor beyond visual-range air-to-air missile from 2014 and an active electronically scanned array radar that potentially offers a wider field of regard from 2015.
New air-to-surface weapons would include anti-ship missiles, stand-off-range cruise missiles and long-range glide bombs. A thrust-vectoring nozzle is also being offered for the aircraft's Eurojet EJ200 turbofan engines.


I can see the EF winning more tenders in the future for sure and more countries will operate the fighter that is why it will have a brighter future to the unwanted 2nd best Rafale and soon you will see the EF in Indian colours

 

[SpArK]

Clearly, it's also a time ripe for reading into everything. The Pioneer newspaper suggests that a meeting between the Indian Prime Minister and French President in Cannes on the sidelines of the ongoing G20 summit, inexplicably cancelled at the last minute, suggested that France had lost the competition.

Never knew MMS talked about fighter jets at places like G-20

 

[Paan Singh]

Never knew MMS talked about fighter jets at places like G-20

well out of p5 leaders,4 leaders talked about mmrca during their visits.it could be a signal + rafale bid is slightly lower than eft..

so cant ignore it,it will bail out eads or dassault.

 

[SpArK]

Yes they cut their orders due to the economic situation which they find themselves in which makes them even more desperate. It is a myth there is no further development funded for the EF just look at this baby for one:


http://www.****************/new-helmet-enables-eurofighter-pilots-to-look-lock-on-and-fire-31079/


"The plan is to, over the next eight to 10 years, take a phased approach to enhancing the Typhoon's capability," says Rob Wells, Eurofighter's export future business manager. "It is the exports that are driving these enhancements."

Eurofighter unveiled the plans, which include optional conformal fuel tanks, at IDEX 2011. Other enhancements include the option of MBDA's Meteor beyond visual-range air-to-air missile from 2014 and an active electronically scanned array radar that potentially offers a wider field of regard from 2015.

New air-to-surface weapons would include anti-ship missiles, stand-off-range cruise missiles and long-range glide bombs. A thrust-vectoring nozzle is also being offered for the aircraft's Eurojet EJ200 turbofan engines.


I can see the EF winning more tenders in the future for sure and more countries will operate the fighter that is why it will have a brighter future to the unwanted 2nd best Rafale and soon you will see the EF in Indian colours

Yes as i suggested.. more years to enhance it capabilities.
Yes reduction in orders and developments due to financial crisis. Its like buying from somebody who is broke .
For starters the EFT TVC is no where and its not part of the deal.
And Meteor comes in Rafale too.
AESA in 2015.. lol.. Rafale will come with an AESA from 2012 if chosen.


Rest is just fanboyism with "will" and "and's"